What is your opinion on using a gag bit with only one rein? At the barn I ride at most of the jumper riders use a gag with only one rein even with the running martingale. It always looks like the gag is to much and the horses tend to go up and down instead of forward. Most of these riders show at the lower jumper heights. I was always taught that you use two reins on a gag, one on the snaffle and one on the gag rein, so that most of your contact is with the snaffle and the gag only comes into play if you need it. I was also taught that the running martingale should be on the snaffle rein as it is too severe on the gag rein. I am interested what others here on COTH think.
I was taught the same as you with respect to both things. And that the gag was akin to a curb rein. Not quite the same thing, but similar in terms of providing more oomph.
The one-rein thing may be partially generational or discipline related as it seems like I see it more now than I did in the 90’s when I was eventing and doing HJ. I’ve seen it enough that I asked the current trainer and she agreed with me, but she is of a similar generation.
I, too, am curious to see what others think.
Another poster on here, faraway46, did a clinic with Nelson Pessoa where he had her ride in a one-rein gag. Her horse sounded very similar to my big jumper and I was toying with doing the same (my show bit is a slow twist gag, so my thought was to step back to a smooth mouthpiece with the one rein). I happened to be riding in a clinic with Greg Best (who I ride with regularly) around that time, so I asked him about it beforehand. His answer was that he felt there’s never a time when one rein is appropriate. His comment was that a good rider can do anything with the 2-reins that he or she can do with 1, but the reverse is not true (you don’t have the same functionality with only 1 rein on the gag), so by using one rein you’re only limiting yourself.
Runnings didn’t make it into the conversation because I don’t use one on my guy, but my own personal feeling is that while I could make a case for someone with a unique horse (i.e. good reason) and excellent hands riding like that, I can’t imagine having a bunch of kids (or amateurs) doing it…seems like a recipe for punishing a horse for the riders’ mistakes.
With that being said, you’d have to define “gag” a little further before I would pass judgement. I do ride my big guy around at home in a 2-ring happy mouth with only one rein on the bottom ring. I’ve found him to be softer and more willing to work with that set-up (as opposed to two reins or just a rein on the snaffle ring). A 2-ring is, of course, different than a true gag, but FWIW technically I guess I’m schooling my guy at home in a one-rein gag.
I am talking about a true gag, where the rein connects to a rope that goes through the bit.
PNWJumper, IMHO you are NOT schooling in a single rein gag because a gag by proper definition is a bit that applies poll pressure while raising the bit in the horse’s mouth, in essence applying pressure from above and below. A 2 ring bit applies pressure to the poll, but doesn’t fundamentally change the position of the bit in the horse’s mouth. What you are schooling in is more in line with a curb bit, although a curb bit is more severe because when correctly used has a curb chain or curb strap that creates a nutcracker effect on the jaw.
What I don’t get is the running martingale, which seems to have been completely misunderstood. The purpose of a RM is to cause the bit to apply pressure on the bars of the mouth and corner of the of the lips WHEN THE HANDS ARE RAISED causing a vee shape to occur between the bit and the rider’s hands. Now if you put a RM on a single gag rein, a RM will create the poll pressure but the RM will PROHIBIT the gag rein from raising the bit and squeezing the horse between the poll and corner of the mouth. So by adding the RM you’ve lessened the severity of the action of the bit.
I attribute what the OP is seeing is to the ignorance that is wide spread amongst younger trainers and riders who were not properly taught the theory and purpose of all the bits out there.
Not sure what to get your trainer for Christmas. Try a book on bits and bitting.
I was taught two reins on a gag as well, for the reasons provided by Greg Best.
I event, and I use 2 reins on a gag for stadium, and one rein for XC. I tried running XC w/ 2 reins, because I was taught that generally one should always use 2 reins on a gag, and I didn’t want to use more bit than necessary … However, it simply was not enough for my horse, but just using the gag rein works perfectly. Using only 1 rein would be way too much for stadium; using 2 works quite well for us there, and the times when I need a lot of emphasis on the gag are limited.
I would never put a martingale on the gag rein though, it just seems so counter intuitive.
I have a gag bit where the ONLY option is ONE rein. Its a crescent shape, pretty old (probably from the 80’s early90’s). I use it on occasion to school one of the heavy horses and it works great as its a soft mouth piece, but does it job of elevating when needed. It has stops on the gag straps to ensure it doesnt pull up too high. You need to be cautious when using it, I wouldnt use if for showing…but schooling at home it has made a point to the pony who likes to freight train through lead changes.
THIS!
[QUOTE=Kryswyn;6418998]
I attribute what the OP is seeing is to the ignorance that is wide spread amongst younger trainers and riders who were not properly taught the theory and purpose of all the bits out there.
Not sure what to get your trainer for Christmas. Try a book on bits and bitting.[/QUOTE]
I believe you are correct except the trainer is not that young. I have made suggestions about the second rein, but they fall on deaf ears. I guess I feel for the horses because the riders are clearly not educated enough IMO to use this bit correctly.
I have a student that sometimes rides in a gag with one rein and a running.
The running means that when the horse pulls his head up to a certain point the gag effect is reduced. I also like the running as when his head does come up and his neck gets short his rider is less likely to over shorten her reins and keep him there as the “v” takes up the extra rein.
Because the reins aren’t really attached to the bit, but to his poll, the running also reduces the bar pressure that runnings often place on a horse when they put their head up.
I wouldn’t use it to school dressage, or to hack in regularly, but as an uncomplicated set up to send a strong horse around the jumpers? Sure.
^^^^But you’re not sending every student in the ring with that get-up, only one student sometimes. And apparently it’s working for that one student who must have enough leg so that the horse goes forward as opposed to up and down. Likewise, supaflyskye uses one rein x-county where its needed. There are always going to be appropriate exceptions to every “rule.”
For example, I rode my old horse x-county in what is regarded as a pretty severe bit. One time at a clinic, the clinician gave someone in a group before mine a hard time about using the same bit I planned to use later. I briefly considered switching to the bit I used when schooling over fences in the ring, but decided to go with what had worked in the past. Rode in my session. Horse went great. Clinician praised horse and me. So I summoned up my courage and asked about the bit. He waved his hand dismissively and said, in my case I was using the bit appropriately and he had no issues with it.
The bit – a double twisted wire. Photo of the onerous bit in action.
[QUOTE=Kryswyn;6418998]
PNWJumper, IMHO you are NOT schooling in a single rein gag because a gag by proper definition is a bit that applies poll pressure while raising the bit in the horse’s mouth, in essence applying pressure from above and below. A 2 ring bit applies pressure to the poll, but doesn’t fundamentally change the position of the bit in the horse’s mouth. What you are schooling in is more in line with a curb bit, although a curb bit is more severe because when correctly used has a curb chain or curb strap that creates a nutcracker effect on the jaw.
What I don’t get is the running martingale, which seems to have been completely misunderstood. The purpose of a RM is to cause the bit to apply pressure on the bars of the mouth and corner of the of the lips WHEN THE HANDS ARE RAISED causing a vee shape to occur between the bit and the rider’s hands. Now if you put a RM on a single gag rein, a RM will create the poll pressure but the RM will PROHIBIT the gag rein from raising the bit and squeezing the horse between the poll and corner of the mouth. So by adding the RM you’ve lessened the severity of the action of the bit.
I attribute what the OP is seeing is to the ignorance that is wide spread amongst younger trainers and riders who were not properly taught the theory and purpose of all the bits out there.
Not sure what to get your trainer for Christmas. Try a book on bits and bitting.[/QUOTE]
Absolutely!! You got it, K!
[QUOTE=supaflyskye;6419138]
I event, and I use 2 reins on a gag for stadium, and one rein for XC. I tried running XC w/ 2 reins, because I was taught that generally one should always use 2 reins on a gag, and I didn’t want to use more bit than necessary … However, it simply was not enough for my horse, but just using the gag rein works perfectly. Using only 1 rein would be way too much for stadium; using 2 works quite well for us there, and the times when I need a lot of emphasis on the gag are limited.
I would never put a martingale on the gag rein though, it just seems so counter intuitive.[/QUOTE]
How in the world could this be? If you are havig trouble with two reins, just let the snaffle rein get slack and ride PREDOMINATELY off the gag rein. Why would you need to actually only have one rein?
The snaffle rein is better/helpful in turning, where the gag rein is not. The gag is BRAKES.
i could be completely off here but a “gag” bit can refer to say…an elevator bit. Which i have used with my hunter horses for a reminder to stay respectful to the bit and not drag me. As a hunter using it, i use typically two rains like you stated, but on an occasion or two i have used one but rode with a very loopy rein because they have that big of an effect on the horses mouth. I personally cant say which is seen as “proper” for a jumper because like i said i do hunters, but if they seem to be restricting the horse to only going up and down then there obviously is something going wrong with the ride. it could be as simple as the riders are using too forceful of a hand for the horse with such a strong bit in their mouths, or it could be the simple fact that that is how the horse “ticks”. Hope that made sense to you 
Wakefield, while there are similarities between an elevator bit and a gag, the terms are not interchangeable. An elevator is a LEVERAGE bit with the mouthpiece acting as a fulcrum point with the reins applying force towards the hand against the mouth. This action causes the ring where the cheek piece is attached to come FORWARD thus applying poll pressure.
The poll pressure comes down and slightly forward toward the nostrils (more depending on how far above the mouthpiece the top ring is).
On a gag bit, the gag rein provides the poll pressure, there is no leverage as there is no fulcrum, its more like a pulley action, by running through the ring of the bit, the bit provides the rider with the extra stopping power.
A gag bit, is exactly (and only) that. Pulling back on the gag rein raises the bit in the mouth, ie, gagging the horse.
Not sure what to tell people you want for Christmas? Ask for a book on bits! Trust me, they’re fascinating and there really IS a bit for everyhorse. And those newfangled Mykmar bits? They’re based on the horrific bits of the (literal) Dark Ages. Those were invented because men had to control big horses without knowing how to ride. Oddly enough, JUST LIKE NOW!
[QUOTE=lauriep;6421403]
How in the world could this be? If you are havig trouble with two reins, just let the snaffle rein get slack and ride PREDOMINATELY off the gag rein. Why would you need to actually only have one rein?
The snaffle rein is better/helpful in turning, where the gag rein is not. The gag is BRAKES.[/QUOTE]
a little harder to do going XC, when I’ve slipped the reins going down a drop into water, started to gather them back up for a fence 3 strides out, and need the gag when my horse wants to run after that fence.
We do not need improvement on steering going XC, I can easily control my horse’s trajectory by predominantly just shifting my weight, and he’s a jump-seeking missile anyway. We need brakes. I do not particularly enjoy coming in 2min under optimum time and garnering the associated penalties. :lol:
For stadium we do need finesse in turning for rollbacks, etc, and do not need the same degree of speed control most of the time. So 2 reins works very well for us there.
I assure you, I have tried many bits on this horse to find what works, w/ the advice of respected trainers, and the current set up works extremely well for us. I appreciate your concern, but I think that the bits I use on him are appropriate.
[QUOTE=SquishTheBunny;6419510]
I have a gag bit where the ONLY option is ONE rein. Its a crescent shape, pretty old (probably from the 80’s early90’s). I use it on occasion to school one of the heavy horses and it works great as its a soft mouth piece, but does it job of elevating when needed. It has stops on the gag straps to ensure it doesnt pull up too high. You need to be cautious when using it, I wouldnt use if for showing…but schooling at home it has made a point to the pony who likes to freight train through lead changes.[/QUOTE]
This is/was a common POLO bit and was used in combination with a curb bit. The rein attached to it was the steering rein and in combo with the curb rein provided a good set of brakes.
I rode my (now retired) freight-train, 16.3 hh, racehorse-for-9-years, yes-really-raced-for-9-years, turned jumper, in a slow-twist gag with two reins—snaffle and gag. Worked very well to get him off his forehand and then enable me to collect him up (as much as was possible with him). Because he has a lower set neck than usual for a jumper, but tremendous power behind and on all fronts, he did very well in this bit. However, I had an extremely educated trainer who changed bits many times with us throughout the process of his training, in order to address specific questions and issues. We always, always went with the least amount of equipment that would work for the job. In the end, I could ride him in a hackamore very happily.
I don’t usually, but have learned to never say never with bits. I mean, Hickstead won at the Olympics with a single rein on the bottom of a Pelham. Not exactly “recommended.” And eventers seem to use gags without a second rein as the rule rather than the exception on XC, to little ill effect that I can see. I’ve been told it is because they slip the reins often and it is hard to gather 2 sets of wet reins back up. Makes sense to me.
My trainer had me ride my heavy on the forehand TB junior jumper in a rubber gag with one rein for a while when I was a kid. it helped him immensely while, in the meantime, we worked on his flatwork. By the end of his career he went in a plain snaffle but for a while he needed the gag or he’d often toe rails off in front from being too heavy and not caring enough to snap his toes up. The gag helped him keep from getting in a position where he’d have to be all that fancy in front.
I agree that a good rider could probably have done all that with 2 reins, but I plead “not that good a rider” in my trainer’s eyes, apparently. :lol:
