Gaited Horse Confusion - Saddlebreds

[Alterration]

I’ve been trying to learn about gaited horses, and man - this is a whole new world!

Ok, so in most parts of the world, Saddlebreds are considered a gaited breed.

However, everything I’m reading says that the rack and slow gait are manmade gaits. I’ve also read that a mutation of the DMRT3 gene determines gaitedness (or lack thereof) in a horse, but there’s also a study that the mutation (or lack thereof) has no bearing on which Saddlebreds are trained for (and are successful at) the slow gait and rack.

This implies that either every horse has some additional potential to learn additional gaits, OR that there’s some other mechanism in the saddlebred that allows them to become more lateral and learn those two gaits.

The context here is that I own a saddlebred who is of 5-gaited lines almost exclusively on the damside and mostly 5-gaited with a few fine harness horses on the sireline. I’m curious if in there somewhere we might be able to get some gait. I am not looking for a show quality gait - my horse is a pleasure horse almost exclusively now - but I am insanely curious if it’s possible because my hips and back are no longer loving trotting as I age, and I’d prefer to not get another horse if I don’t have to. I see saddlebreds included on gaited lists all the time, but when I go read the “regular” gaited horse trainer info, they list the saddlebred sometimes but no one seems to have a bead on the idea of a pleasure gaited saddlebred (not the showing kind…the trail riding kind).

Does anyone have any reliable info?

[JB]

When foals are born knowing how to rack, that’s not man-made

What IS man-made is the selection for horses who have gaits other than w/t/c. Somewhere, a mutation occurred to allow those to happen, just like the mutations that started making horses colors other than bay dun, just like mutations that brought HYPP and HERDA and PSSM and and and and.

Here’s a pretty easy to understand abstract on the “Gait Keeper” DMRT3 gene
The effect of the ‘Gait keeper’ mutation in the DMRT3 gene on gaiting ability in Icelandic horses - PubMed (nih.gov)

here’s another that’s more in-depth
Mutations in DMRT3 affect locomotion in horses and spinal circuit function in mice | Nature

I don’t know that you can take a TB and teach him to rack.

What I do know about gaited horses is that balance is even more critical than in “normal” horses. And, in many, the horse simply needs strengthening with a gait to be able to do the gait well, while some are just born with a quality rack installed. Most normal horses don’t pace, even when anxious or unbalanced, their trot doesn’t become a pace, and their walk doesn’t get lateral (a pace-walk) They don’t have the Gait Keeper gene.

But some do start the lateral walk when they’re anxious, and that goes for the gaited horse who trots instead of racks (or whatever the actual gait is that devolves into the trot). That’s why there are specialized gaited horse trainers, not just because they know what the gaits are and how to ride them, etc, but because they know how to get the right gait when the horse wants to trot instead.

So for you, I would find one of those specialized gaited horse trainers. It’s probably a combination of how you are riding him, asking him, and even the horse’s strength and actual ability to do the various gaits. He’s undoubtedly got more than 3 in there.

[Scribbler]

@Alterration

I’ve been trying to learn about gaited horses, and man - this is a whole new world!

Ok, so in most parts of the world, Saddlebreds are considered a gaited breed.

However, everything I’m reading says that the rack and slow gait are manmade gaits. I’ve also read that a mutation of the DMRT3 gene determines gaitedness (or lack thereof) in a horse, but there’s also a study that the mutation (or lack thereof) has no bearing on which Saddlebreds are trained for (and are successful at) the slow gait and rack.

This implies that either every horse has some additional potential to learn additional gaits, OR that there’s some other mechanism in the saddlebred that allows them to become more lateral and learn those two gaits.

The context here is that I own a saddlebred who is of 5-gaited lines almost exclusively on the damside and mostly 5-gaited with a few fine harness horses on the sireline. I’m curious if in there somewhere we might be able to get some gait. I am not looking for a show quality gait - my horse is a pleasure horse almost exclusively now - but I am insanely curious if it’s possible because my hips and back are no longer loving trotting as I age, and I’d prefer to not get another horse if I don’t have to. I see saddlebreds included on gaited lists all the time, but when I go read the “regular” gaited horse trainer info, they list the saddlebred sometimes but no one seems to have a bead on the idea of a pleasure gaited saddlebred (not the showing kind…the trail riding kind).

Does anyone have any reliable info?

I don’t know much IRL but have read up about this.

Yes, the gaited breeds have a natural affinity to gait.

At one end of the spectrum you have trot totally diagonal and at the other you have pace totally lateral, and the various gaits sit on a spectrum with a true 4 beat gait in the middle. Fox trot is more diagonal and rack is more lateral. Gaited horses will gait at liberty.

All.horses can show a broken trot that isn’t a true foxtrot. There is also a minor genre of YouTube videos on “racking quarter horses” which is more foxtrot I think.

I think it’s also true that the gaits can be encouraged through training. The OTSB have been trained to encourage their natural pacing.

But then on my Paint, I’d say both our collected and medium/extended trot, such as it is, could be considered “man made” as it took time and schooling to get her there.

I would think you could get your horses gaiting but I don’t know the training methods. What does he do at liberty? Does he just trot and canter or does he offer gaits of some kind? The OTSB absolutely pace in turnout, super fast.

I’ve always seen Saddlebreds considered gaited horses, indeed they are the primary gaited breed as far as I understand it

[Alterration]

He trots in turnout and on the longe. I’ve never seen anything particularly lateral out of him, but he had been schooled in dressage since he was 3 so he likely has no idea he can gait…if indeed he can.

I did have a horse years ago that we later suspected was at least part saddlebred who never showed a proclivity to gait, until one day something spooked her forward instead of her normal sideways spook and she racked a few steps. In that case she was a bit ventroflexed (given the spook) and her hind end was trying to outrun the front end.

[luvmyhackney]

Saddlebreds are not out of the womb gaited except for a very select few. Breeders breed for the trot as it’s difficult to teach in naturally gaited saddlebreds and they have to have 5 gaits to show.

Majority have the tendency to be gaited using man made methods. Short back, strong rear end, and a tendency to amble off balance. Get them going on a downgrade and shift weight side to side and most will amble at the walk. Plus pull front shoes and some weight behind. Each horse is different and some pick it up easier than other

Unless your horse has a very sound and strong hind end, I wouldn’t bother. Racking is hard on horses but tbh most ASBs I see now are pacing and not a true tack.

[ShenanAnna]

FWIW, I had a range-bred Morgan that I bought unbroke, had the ranch trainer put 30 days or so on him and I rode hunt seat and trail, and he would sometimes do something that other, more knowledgeable people called “looks like he’s trying to rack.” When I saw it with another rider (never noticed it at liberty) all I could say was that it wasn’t a two-beat gait, while the other rider, a fellow boarder who didn’t ride much, insisted it was a trot.

This same horse, while out riding with a small group, was keeping up with an OTTB who was galloping at a pretty good clip. My horse preferred to trot, the gait we’d been at when the other horse sped up. I’d never ridden a trot at speed like that, or probably ever even seen it. Quite an experience!

I didn’t notice either of these gaits except under saddle, but the horse was pretty green, although well balanced from his upbringing on a hilly range. He was great on trails, whatever the terrain.

[Alterration]

@luvmyhackney

Majority have the tendency to be gaited using man made methods. Short back, strong rear end, and a tendency to amble off balance. Get them going on a downgrade and shift weight side to side and most will amble at the walk.

He does have a short back and a round strong hind end, for a saddlebred. Often mistaken for a morgan. But I don’t know about the tendency of the amble. I guess because I’ve never intentionally made him off balance He seems to have been balanced out of the womb, enhanced obviously with his dressage training. Maybe that’s why I’ve never seen any sign of ambling.

[JB]

There’s a very good chance that his additional gaits just aren’t developed, since he was put into non-gaited Dressage training from a young age.

[Alterration]

Quite possible.

I’ve been reading Ivy Starnes stuff and I do understand the gait spectrum - outside the show ring it appears that a gaited horse might be taught to do almost any gait on the spectrum (although not as well as the horses selected for that gait specifically like the Foxtrotter) except the running walk which seems exclusive to the Walker.

I watched a video on the Imus page of a Morgan who had originally been trained as a park horse who was learning to fox trot although they never showed the finished product.

I guess the reality might be that many many horses may be able to be broken into some gait or another - it just might be easier with that gene.

[luvmyhackney]

Find a good saddlebred trainer that can gait a horse and either send him for training or at least get a consult.

Just be aware that if you haven’t seen him amble in transitions, pasture, going downhill trail riding, he’s probably not going to rack and you can ruin his trot trying.

[Alterration]

Ruin it how?

The reality is if I can’t get some sort of gait he is likely to spend the rest of his life just walking or being retired anyway. He has a home with me for life and has been written into my will. He is my special boy, I just can’t ride the trot anymore.

I can when walking fast change the cadence to a 1-2 pause 3-4, so I guess that might be a little like a stepping pace. I just haven’t seen it with my eyeballs, just heard it with my ears.

[Scribbler]

@Alterration

Ruin it how?

The reality is if I can’t get some sort of gait he is likely to spend the rest of his life just walking or being retired anyway. He has a home with me for life and has been written into my will. He is my special boy, I just can’t ride the trot anymore.

I can when walking fast change the cadence to a 1-2 pause 3-4, so I guess that might be a little like a stepping pace. I just haven’t seen it with my eyeballs, just heard it with my ears.

Ruin the trot?

My Paint mare had a sewing machine trot that was also off sync and not tracking up when she was green. Almost a foxtrot. We spent a lot of time getting her relaxed and reaching to the bit and tracking up until she could do a forward two beat clean trot. I could see if you went back to break up the trot you could lose all that work. It’s a different way of moving.

That said Saddlebreds are meant to have 5 gaits including trot.

[Alterration]

Ahhh yeah, I’m not sure it matters much if he trots a clear true 2 ever again My stupid body is rebelling after years of abuse. My spine and hips are totally over the trot.

[Jarpur]

@luvmyhackney

Get them going on a downgrade and shift weight side to side and most will amble at the walk. Plus pull front shoes and some weight behind.

I agree with the above. Barefoot in front, shoes behind (maybe add bell boots behind for a little extra weight), sit up (don’t lean forward), feel inside as though one is kinda tucking the pelvis and have a bit of that sitting on one’s pockets feel (without actually leaning back), don’t be stiff (be willing to go with the lateral feel without throwing one’s body from side to side), let the horse’s neck and head come up. Downhill terrain helps.

If the OP is getting a 1-2, 3-4 cadence, that’s a start.

Next steps, for me, would be pushing the horse slightly over with each step, alternating sides, while giving a little one-rein halt halt – I’d be thinking of invisible zig zags.

I wouldn’t do too much at one time – it can be tiring work at first; I would reward any effort, relax and rest frequently. Also, a horse originally trained strictly w/t/c might have been disciplined for offering anything else; the horse needs to understand what is wanted, and that it won’t be corrected for gaiting.

[Rackonteur]

What bit do you have him in? Have you tried a different bit? How are you sitting him when you ask him to gait? Do you care WHICH gait he might offer? Amble, rack, slow gait, singlefoot, stepping pace, etc.? Have you tried what the previous poster suggested, on a downslope, getting him to break up his trot, etc.?

[Alterration]

@Jarpur

Next steps, for me, would be pushing the horse slightly over with each step, alternating sides, while giving a little one-rein halt halt – I’d be thinking of invisible zig zags.

I wouldn’t do too much at one time – it can be tiring work at first; I would reward any effort, relax and rest frequently. Also, a horse originally trained strictly w/t/c might have been disciplined for offering anything else; the horse needs to understand what is wanted, and that it won’t be corrected for gaiting.

We’ve been doing short stints. 15 minutes max with lots of breaks (and treats) when he gets something that is even just a super fast walk, since his walk was really slow.

He is barefoot all around, but I do have some of the leather weights that I could put on behind. I did notice that when I thought more lateral with my aids (half halts on each rein) that we got there a little quicker than just pushing him forward.

He’s a good egg and will try anything I ask of him.

[Alterration]

Right now he’s in a myler snaffle. I’ve ridden him in a variety of bits, not sure if any are better than the other - the shape of the bits he has always preferred is a Mullen with a roller in it, whether it’s a curb or snaffle. He’s picky about his mouth and contact.

I’m definitely sitting back more than I was. Ex-hunter rider here, but with my hips I end up sitting more back in a semi-chair seat, which is awful, but may be what I have to do at the moment.

I don’t really care what he offers gait wise. We’re just exploring what can be done at the moment. A lot of the intermediate gaits still look really similar to me, so I’m still educating my eye. Obviously I can tell the difference between a pace and a trot, but without slow mo it’s hard for me to distinguish the other gaits. I can hear differences in beat though, being a former musician, so that’s what I’m relying on!

[Rackonteur]

Sounds like you and he are doing good. And yeah, as you said, you can definitely hear when they get going gaiting.

[Jarpur]

@Alterration

I did notice that when I thought more lateral with my aids (half halts on each rein) that we got there a little quicker than just pushing him

Yes, this. You’re helping him make the connection.

A little weight on the hinds will be helpful – it’s not for forever, it’s just to help give him the idea of what is wanted; I personally have never used leather weights so don’t have any experience with those.

I initially work on something different – such as a hack or trail ride – and do a couple of minutes here and there, working up to more often and longer. A stepping pace, rack, or broken trot (whatever the horse is offering) uses different posture and muscles than w/t/c. I try to keep it fun, and not have the horse ever become sore (a little tired is fine). Imagine a horse learning dressage, and asking for lateral movements – how much for how long would be appropriate at the early stages?

What a nice horse!

[Jackie_Cochran]

I have had these aids work with a Puerto Rican Paso Fino, a 7/8 Arab/ASB and a few Arabians (2 pure Davenport, and one who was probably a Crabbet bred mare).

At the walk I start “bumping” with my lower leg when the horse’s barrel comes out against it (opposite of lengthening the walk stride) combined with tweaks of the rein ON THE SAME SIDE, so lateral aids.

If the horse has a easy gait inside of it I got prompt responses, the horse’s back moved differently and the footfalls sounded a bit different. It takes some time for the horse to get the fact that it is time to easy gait in its head, and they need to start off slow and gradually increase their time in whatever gait they give you.

The Paso Fino mare gave me a Paso. The other ones gave me a fox trot. My riding teacher could not see much difference between the fox trot and regular trot, but my seat had no difficulties telling what gait they were doing. Instead of a back motion like a stretched out U from side to side their backs moved \ /, forward out to the side, alternating.

I do not have experience with the Running Walk, stepping pace or rack. My Paso Fino mare did a regular lateral pace until I figured out how to get her into a 4-beat gait.

If the horse did not have an ability to easy gait I got nothing but a mildly irritated horse as in “what in Hades are you doing up there?” who would get restive if I kept trying to get an easy gait out of it.