Gelding acting like a stallion suddenly

[VintagePony]

So hear me out. I’ve had my arab gelding for 8 years, he was gelded when I got him at age 9 but was never used for breeding. He was turned out with mares in mixed herds the entire time I’ve owned him except at one facility, never acted up, always submissive to other horses and showed no interest in mares, estrus or not.

Now he’s finally at home at our new farm. He’d been alone for the first few months with just the neighboring horses for company and he was fine. I just got my second horse, a yearling filly, big boned draft cross. The initial meeting over the fence was fine, usual ‘Oh hay a friend!’ behavior. They settled and just hung out together. That evening I put them together in the small paddock. One squeal from him and they went to grazing, all was well. She followed him around and he ignored her. They stayed out over night.
Next morning they come in for breakfast and go back out and things change. She is suddenly showing signs of being in heat and he’s showing signs of being interested, definitely not normal for him. I kept an eye on them but left it as it was because he’d arch his neck, grunt, then calm down a moment later. Later that day I catch him trying to mount her and I immediately separated them. It’s gotten to the point where I can’t work with her without him screaming for her, he runs the fence when they are first turned out in the morning and I don’t want him hurting himself galloping around the big field trying to keep the filly in his sights. She doesn’t act very flirtatious, her reaction to him seems to be more from a place of herd bound and not wanting to be where she can’t see him. So the calling happens when one is away from the other.

Any supplements you’d suggest for him? I’m really limited in options at this point and its worrying that this is happening for the first time now. If he’d shown this behavior in the past I wouldn’t have gotten a filly.

[Marla_100]

You may want to investigate whether or not he is proud cut, meaning he has a retained testicle high enough inside that it’s
not dropped and visible. Unless you witnessed his gelding and saw 2 testicles removed, you can’t believe what someone
told you. Many times sellers don’t mention it.

If the examination doesn’t show anything still retained he may have indeed bred mares before he was gelded at 9. Again
if you didn’t own him prior to that, you just don’t know what is the truth.

Many late gelded horses still show interest in mounting mares. The breeding behavior may be hard to eradicate in these horses. If that’s the case you may just have to keep your two separated.

[VintagePony]

I did in fact witness his gelding. I got him through a rescue, removed from his breeder’s property as a stallion. I had him gelded once in my care. He was part of a neglect case where out of the 30 some horses on property, the dozen or so stallions were stuck in their stalls for around 3 years. He was one of the last foals born on the property. When the owners were breeding they were very meticulous and responsible, every foal was registered and so on. I really don’t think he ever bred a mare accidentally, if he did, wouldn’t this behavior have shown itself much sooner?

The issue is that when I need to train the filly he goes ballistic when he can’t see her. Which just aggravates her herd bound behavior (which I expect from a yearling who has never been alone before.)
His situation/history makes this even more confusing for me.

[Scribbler]

What if you throw some donkeys into the mix to give everyone some more friends?

A mare in heat will get many geldings worked up.

[MsM]

I dont know why he would suddenly change. My only guess is that much of the behavior is more herd-bound than studdy. When he was with a group, no one horse was important. But when he only has one other horse, she becomes super important!
I have had two geldings that were overly interested in mares. One even “bred” a mare in the field! Neither had other studdy qualities and were gelded young. The operation just slipped their minds at times…

[Scribbler]

I have a skanky mare. It’s amazing the change in the boys behaviour when she’s a lit up. I expect yearling filly in her first heats is pretty enticing.

[SuzieQNutter]

This is gelding behaviour as well and it is called separation anxiety. The neighboring horses don’t count. You do not put horses together after one day. You leave them separated for 2 weeks so they can talk over a fence for 2 weeks.

This is why it is easier to have 3 horses and not 2 horses. Horses are gregarious.

In a herd of 50 we had one gelding that spent more time on top of Poppy than on the ground when she was in season. Normally an old very quiet gelding.

The best thing is to work the horse that is worst when separated. Put the other in a small yard with a biscuit of hay. Work around the yard. Once they are not paying attention go behind a building and come back out again. The more times you come back into view the better. Once they handle that okay you start waiting longer and longer behind the building before coming back into view. You only have to do it a million times.

Then do it with the other horse.

The horse you are working must have their attention solely on you.

[VintagePony]

@SuzieQNutter

This is gelding behaviour as well and it is called separation anxiety. The neighboring horses don’t count. You do not put horses together after one day. You leave them separated for 2 weeks so they can talk over a fence for 2 weeks.

This is why it is easier to have 3 horses and not 2 horses. Horses are gregarious.

In a herd of 50 we had one gelding that spent more time on top of Poppy than on the ground when she was in season. Normally an old very quiet gelding.

The best thing is to work the horse that is worst when separated. Put the other in a small yard with a biscuit of hay. Work around the yard. Once they are not paying attention go behind a building and come back out again. The more times you come back into view the better. Once they handle that okay you start waiting longer and longer behind the building before coming back into view. You only have to do it a million times.

Then do it with the other horse.

The horse you are working must have their attention solely on you.

Okay I’ll try to continue with this. I tried that today, working the filly first, moving away and that’s when he started the crazed galloping. We came back into view then away again and he was just nuts. Thus causing her to act out with me.

I fully intend to leave them separated longer now, but I was basing my decision off of what had been done with him in the past with no issue. Just threw me for an unwelcome loop.

[SuzieQNutter]

Which is why I said yard. Preferably wooden or pipe, so he cannot gallop and hopefully not hurt himself.

[VintagePony]

@SuzieQNutter

Which is why I said yard. Preferably wooden or pipe, so he cannot gallop and hopefully not hurt himself.

The only smaller space I have the filly is in. I’ll have to get electric tape and try to section off the pasture he’s in.

[jetsmom]

Get a donkey

[SuzieQNutter]

@VintagePony

The only smaller space I have the filly is in. I’ll have to get electric tape and try to section off the pasture he’s in.

Good luck with that. If he gets really het up he might go through it.

[mmeqcenter]

Geldings can still be interested, and they don’t have to have been late cut.
My gelding was always perfectly fine with mares, then randomly in his mid-teens he started mounting them. He was not gelded late, and is not proud cut. Hormones change, that’s life.

Also he is clearly very herd-bound, and IME geldings tend to get more attached to mares than to other geldings. I’d be separating these two. Or try some Valerian root for him if he’s not showing.

[RainWeasley]

@mmeqcenter

Also he is clearly very herd-bound, and IME geldings tend to get more attached to mares than to other geldings…

This. I’ve seen geldings that had no problem in large groups, put in a smaller group with a few horses, and them get crazy attached to one particular mare. To the point that they need to be moved to a different group. The mare usually could care less, it’s typically the gelding. And it’s not every mare. My best friend’s gelding and my mare practically grew up together, she is a total hussy when she is in heat but he had never been interested in her. Random new mare though? Hot stuff.

I think having just the two horses IS going to be difficult, especially with this gender issue mixed in. There honestly aren’t any guarantees that the behavior would get better with more horses or critters, either, since my friend’s gelding was with multiple horses but still latched on to “his” mare.

I think your best bet is going to just be taking the time to work with them and get them confident in themselves and in you, and knowing that they have to pay attention to you no matter what is going on around them. It sounds like the gelding is the one instigating most of it right now, so maybe swap and work with the gelding and let the filly stay alone.

What is your facility like? Do you have separate pastures/paddocks, a round pen or arena? It might be worth getting some round pen panels to set up somewhere to use either for working one or to hold one. And just set a schedule to do a little with each of them every day, away from the other, but then they get to go back.

The barn my mare is at recently got a new mare. My mare, Twi, is not typically a super buddy sour horse. But she really clicked with this mare, and after the first week she would get super anxious if I brought her in where she couldn’t see New Mare. I could still handle her and lunge her lightly a bit (she has some kind of mystery lameness going on and the vet wanted me to try putting her back into light work, so it was mostly just walk work and a bit of tro from the ground), but while she was trying to pay attention to me, you could tell her anxiety from being away from New Mare was getting to her.

So, I took her and did our work out in the pasture near New Mare. New Mare pretty much ignored us beyond coming up to say hi to me at first. I made a big deal about loving on New Mare, then started working Twi about fifteen feet away from New Mare grazing. She calmed down, then I walked her away and let her chill. Granted, we already have a pretty good relationship so it was a lot easier than it would be with a horse you don’t know as well, but both letting her be near New Mare while we worked and letting her get a break AWAY from new mare seemed to make a huge difference. She was totally back to normal a week later. So another thing to think about.