I’ve spent a lot of time in PT rehabbing my own various body parts, and what they always tell me is a little soreness after a session is okay, but if it’s pain, or if it lasts into the next day, the work is too much and it’s important to speak up so they can adjust where we are and what we’re doing.
If you’re looking for medication post work, it sounds like you’re pushing the horse into pain, or that he’s still looking sore the next day. From the people who spend all day rehabbing people: that’s too much push, and it’s time to either back off, or approach in a different way, or both.
The answer, in people or horses, isn’t just to medicate and continue pushing.
One of the biggest reasons people don’t stick with a (personal) workout routine is pushing themselves too hard too fast, getting crazy sore (enough to impede movement the next day), and then being unable and unwilling to continue long term - or getting injured. Good personal trainers will design routines that may make you muscle tired or a bit sore if you go sit on the couch for the rest of the day, but that soreness should go away very quickly with some light movement.
Same thing with horses, and I’d say even more so since they can’t tell us what they feel. Unless there’s a medical reason (injury, surgery, etc) to be pushing a horse to soreness, reaching for meds should be a rare occurrence rather than a regular part of the routine.
A proper workout aiming to even a horse out shouldn’t make them obviously sore. If it is, either there is an injury that needs addressing or the trainer is pushing too hard.
Perhaps I should not have used the work “aspirin”, just mostly looking for a feel-good finish.
What does he do? He comes out anxious. Wants to go before he is warmed up - I like a long walk warm up, lots of simple lateral work, then move to trot… but he wants to go right to trot and I believe he never gets as supple after a trot warm up.
We are working about 3-4 level expectations, but with less collection.
Then about 30 minutes in, he decides he is done. He stops, backs, turns around - usually a strong heel (spur) will get it stopped, but eventually he does it again.
Since everything else has been checked - been seen by a vet/chiro/ accupuncture, with no remarkable findings, even scoped for ulcers a few months ago ( and he gets outlast in his meals and before the ride), my only other choice is that he is just body sore… altho I can run my fingernail all over him after we get bqck to the barn and there are no big reactions.
KER Relieve low NSC feed, timothy pellets, timothy or orchard grass hay, T/A cubes. Appropriate supplements, including cosequin, training day and synchill. Out pretty much 24/7, good southern pasture.
AND another thought, his former trainer/rider is a very strong seat rider. with strong hands (hence the dropped back and pushing out through his chest rather than correctly over his back) … I’m not so strong. Perhaps he wants someone shoving him around and making him do things, rather than asking? But I really have no idea if horses think that way.
Like I said, he is due for his yearly check up in April. Saddle was fit in mid-February.
What happens if you finish your ride before he says he wants to quit? Why not listen to him, and shorten up your rides to within his timeline? Not forever, of course, but for awhile to see what happens if you start saying “good job, well done, we’re done” before he says “I’d prefer not to.”
You can certainly try an NSAID trial. If that improves his behavior, that would be indicative of a problem missed in your veterinary workup, and an indication to do further work to see where he’s sore.
Unfortunately, getting an “all clear” doesn’t necessarily mean the horse has no physical issues–just that one wasn’t found.
Exercise intolerance can be from a number of conditions. Most of which won’t be helped by pain relievers when they have the hit the wall feeling at 30 minutes. Even if they do act tight or muscle sore the next day. Just ask my horse with asthma. Other things include metabolic issues, tying up and other muscle myopathies, and maybe your anxious horse has just gone from flight anxiety to fight anxiety once he has worked a bit or when things get harder.
Anyway, there is recent thinking that DOMS or DOPS (delayed onset muscle soreness or delayed onset pain, not the same thing) in people are actually problems of the nervous system and not an inflammatory response. It’s not lactic acid either if it’s the next day. A 30 min workout for a horse who has been conditioned modestly well should not cause any of this unless they have actual pathology or one of those exercise intolerance issues, in which case it’s probably from overuse/compensation or joint pain or bone pain, etc. NSAIDs could help with inflammatory joint pain, sure, but there may be better ways to approach that—to try to block those inflammatory processes in the joint before stressed by exercise through modern medicine approaches. Having the horse work in a relaxed state would keep the nervous system response in check.
Some horses actually need a canter to warm up - have you tried that?
Have you tried some in-hand work before getting on, to get his mind a little more settled and focused? I don’t mean lunging, that’s not really in-hand. I mean up close and personal, asking him to move various body parts, walk over poles in patterns, that sort of thing.
Have you ever tested for any of the PSSM - Type 1 or the MIM/Type 2 variants? A common theme with those is hitting a wall 20-30 minutes into a ride
His diet looks good, though if he’s got PSSM1, he’s missing the fat needed to make up for what he can’t get out of carbs.
There are sooooo many possibilities than “body sore”. Arthritis tends to get better with work (to a point), but soft tissue issues - muscles, ligaments, tendons - tend to get worse with more work, either as a ride goes on, or as rideS go on.
Can you post a conformation-type pic, on a hard flat surface, so we can see his feet? So, so soooo many people and, unfortunately, their vets, miss things like NPA in the hind feet
He definitely doesn’t want that, but having been ridden that way, and developing incorrect muscling and muscle memory, it’s not a quick road to learning how to be soft and convex on his carriage rather than concave
I think a week trial of a solid bute dosing, ie load up at the high rate for 2 days, then back to a maintenance rate (typically 2gm then 1gm, but it might vary a big if he’s extra big or smaller) can give you some information. If nothing changes, then odds are it’s soft tissue. If it does improve, then arthritis would be more likely
I don’t give my horses anything.
And I don’t give myself anything. Recently been back to hitting the gym a bit harder, in that I am sore for a few days after. I don’t take anything; I recognize I worked harder and expect to be sore from it.
This does not sound physical to me. This is mental. You can give him whatever you want before or after the ride to make him “feel good”, but I would doubt it’s going to have any affect on his MENTAL status.
Being anxious and “shutting down” are probably part of his training holes that you are talking about, that you will have to continue to work on, as you currently are.
The mind is a powerful thing. (It controls the body!!)
I don’t think it’s that much of a stretch that this guy might not be fit for what he’s being asked to do–a warmup that’s new, carrying himself in a way that’s new, being asked to work evenly. He may just be fatiguing, both physically and mentally. Just because he’s capable of more–working incorrectly, it sounds like–doesn’t mean he’s fit to work correctly for 30+ minutes.
To JB’s point, it might be worth a check-in regarding duration and intensity of the work. Shortening the duration while you ramp up the intensity is probably appropriate. He may be objecting to the same 30-40 minute ride when it consists of more strenuous work.
Also, can you change anything in his schedule to help him compensate for the increased work? My TB has been getting started back over fences and has experienced some low grade soreness after jump schools. We’re asking him to use his body and develop muscle differently. That’s not abnormal. We’ve switched the timing of our jump lessons to weekend mornings, so he can go right back out to the pasture for the rest of the day when we’re done. Motion is lotion, and that seems to keep any stiffness or soreness at bay.
That said, I don’t think the occasional NSAID or muscle relaxer is necessarily wrong. We’re heading to a show later this month. He’ll jump a couple of classes and by the time we’re home, probably won’t get turnout that day. Knowing that, he’ll probably get a dose of bute with dinner.
ETA: Ditto the magnesium and Vit E recommendations. My guy was (presumably - didn’t test) deficient. A month of Nupafeed Liquid and the difference was night and day, physically and mentally. He stays on Grand Calm pellets for maintenance now.
OP, I feel for you. Posting on COTH about something like this is going to bring such a wide variety of responses. All you can do is wade through and be honest with yourself about which ones might apply to your horse and which don’t. I will say, be open-minded about it though. I refused to consider ulcers as a possibility for my horse for a while and finally caved and tried Ulcergard in earnest (full tubes) and it cured him of a terribly rough time he was having.
I do think the Baroque breeds tend to be fuss-budgets that want to do everything right and get a bit anxious if they think they are going to be corrected or if they feel at all “off” for whatever reason. This is just from my very limited experience knowing a few and listening to those who do have them and deal with them on the regular. It sounds like yours was kind of rushed into upper level “tricks” as you call them without getting the solid foundation of a relaxed, rhythmic, supple horse first. Probably because he tends to be a bit more “spicy” in nature, someone decided to use that tendency to make him do “fancy stuff” instead of teaching him how to relax and use himself correctly.
But you know all of this. I’d be doing whatever I could to help him learn to relax in all aspects of his life. Pay attention to how he is on the ground. Is he hypervigilant by nature? Energetic? Anxious? When he’s just out being a horse, how is he? Does he get anxious when he comes into the barn to be groomed/tacked? When and where does the anxiety that he relates to being ridden begin? Because that’s where you have to start teaching him that his worry is unfounded.
If he’s anxious at the start and resistant at the end, he’s not a happy horse at all. There’s no way of knowing from our vantage point over here on the other side of the screen if his anxiety and resistance stems from a musculoskeletal issue, a gut issue, a dental issue, a tack fitting issue, a training issue, a feed/management issue, or just the inherent disposition of the horse. Or any combination of these things…which is most likely the case.
I’d be spending the majority of my time NOT doing whatever seems to upset the horse. And I’d be rewarding him instantly for any signs of relaxation and submission before, during, and after rides. If he’s anxious before you go to swing a leg over, do some ground work to help him let go of that anxiety. If you get on and he starts out a bit keyed up but then gives a few moments of relaxation, praise like crazy and get off. If he starts to resist and balk later in a ride, get a tiny bit of willingness and praise and get off.
I’d be more likely to look for nutritional support than medicinal support. Therapeutic levels of Magnesium and higher levels of Vitamin E can be beneficial in some horses.
I believe in warm-hot “showers” especially on their backs after workouts too. A little liniment like Sor No More wouldn’t hurt either.
To add to your post,
I was injured a year ago in February.
When I work, I can end up sore.
If I take something that night I get the restorative sleep I know, from experience, that I need.
That doesn’t mean I’m overdoing it (my continued improvement says I’m not) or that I shouldn’t take something.
.
Just because he’s sound doesn’t mean work doesn’t make him sore.
Sleep is restorative, injured or not.
My injury simply made a fine point on the fact.
Ymmv.
But it shouldn’t is the point a few of us are trying to make.
THIS is an EXCELLENT point!!! I believe the OP said he’s out 24/7. For some horses that can mean anxiety and sleep deprivation.
If this were my horse I would seriously consider doing a stalled-at-night trial of a few weeks or a month or so to see if providing that routine to allow ‘shut down’ in a safe place to get proper rest made any difference.
That said, I still feel very strongly about chasing down better training and any of the physical possibilities mentioned above. It could very well be a puzzle consisting of a few different items. For all we know, the horse has a muscle or neurological issue AND sleep dep with a side of NPA in the hind feet and ulcers. <- I am not actually saying that the horse has ANY of this, but there are a lot of paths to go look down before just throwing some NSAIDs at him because he’s in his teens. Add on that he’s the nervous type and the NSAIDs could cause a whole lot more potentially expensive harm than any potential good.
Read my comments again
I didn’t say nsaids, necessarily
I was agreeing with someone who suggested several things that could be of benefit, several of which I actually used, hence my agreement.
Further, treatments can also be diagnostic, whether they relieve symptoms or don’t.
Puzzles are solved by putting pieces together.
How we do that varies.
.
Local rehab vet was just gushing about BOT sheets for recovery. Definitely something to consider
we back our horses, briskly, in hand, head down, before every ride. I back mine 4 times around arena (.1 mi track). This has strengthened their backs and has made a big difference in conditioning. It’s tedious, I hate it, the horses aren’t fond of it, but it works.
I haven’t read all the responses but…
I used to do this for myself and think it was a good thing but really it was teaching myself to work through pain and use my body wrong.
When I do a big strength training session or run and really push it, I find making sure I take the correct electrolytes, stay hydrated and do some myofascial release/ massage are far more effective than an NSAID
If I’m doing something that is actually hurting while I’m doing it- then chances are something is wrong and taking meds is not a great idea. Same with the horse
If there is an actual injury, that’s different and yes, I would use meds then but probably wouldn’t be working them hard anyway
Before I went to an NSAID I’d be more apt to reduce the work intensity and/or length. I don’t know that comparing humans to horses is totally fair. Just because we are sore after pilates and we take a nsaid, doesn’t mean the same thing should be done with a horse. Horses are 4 legged creatures that live a much more normal life than we do (sitting on the couch, at the desk, etc). I believe their regular turnout (provided it’s sufficient and they aren’t stalled most of the day) should be enough to reduce muscle soreness from a ride that is less than hour out of a 24 hour day. I’d also consider a liniment bath before meds. And I’d probably have this guy getting regular massages.
Lots of suggestions here. I’d suggest making a list of things you think could help, and maybe another of things you don’t think are the problem but could potentially be. Got through them and see what works best.
My green guy isn’t a PRE, but he’s half irish draught and a quarter TB. He is simultaneously very smart and a bit bull headed, but also very sensitive. I’ve been learning that if he gets to the point in a ride he starts shutting down, I went on for way too long. We recently had a set back with trotting that, after checking all the things, appears to have been a combination of not the best saddle and not physically being ready for the work. Trotting for 5 minutes asking for contact and bend might not sound like a lot, but for a guy who was started late, only very briefly, then sat for a year and a half before being restarted when I got him, he just doesn’t have the strength. So I have recently backed down to only trotting straight lines a few times a ride with a couple stretchy circles then being done, combined with work on the lunge on other days where I can help him strengthen his back without having to carry and balance under me, and I have a much happier horse who can do a little bit more each ride.
Bit longer than I meant it to be, but basically agreeing that if he seems to get a bit sour, try shortening the rides more than you think is “reasonable”. Maybe just 20 minutes, but not being afraid to stop and hop off if he gives a good effort on something. If you want longer rides fir fitness, take him for a hack at a walk if possible, or set up a course of walking poles and go over those, or some other kind of obstacle course, something low key physically that will work his brain.
Besides all that though, I’ve also found a lot of success using posture prep, using a massage gun on my guys, and having stretching sessions.
