Gentle hackamore suggestions

[Angelico]

I’ve been searching for a hackamore for a horse I’m training to be a lead pony for me at the track, he is a great little guy, probably the easiest youngster I’ve ever worked with, but I think he be happier in a hackamore than a regular bit.

He has a good mouth, listens well, plenty of “whoa”, but he likes to go with his tongue out and the bit just gets in his way. I’ve ridden him with just a halter and reins and he seemed to like it, so I’m thinking a hack would be worth a try, but every one I come across emphasizes how much “side pull” and whoa they have. They almost seem harsher than a regular bit.

I’ve heard hackamore horror stories and I am admittedly very ignorant to how they work. Any suggestions, advice? Is this horse even a good candidate? Yes his teeth are in good shape.

Here is one I looked at that seems nicer? http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=4deb875b-27a8-4443-93a8-42e93a5bdb85&gas=Bits

I plan to go through my Dover catalog later tonight.

[Bluey]

That is a mechanical hackamore.

Those are used for timed events in playdays, that is why the talk is like it is there, to help the horses in the barrel racing turns and pole bending and such.

You can try, see how you like it.

Many decades ago, plenty of pony horses at the track went on mechanical hackamores, but those were older horses that were not going to pull anything you needed more of a training bit for.
They used a bit heavier mechanical hackamore, like the Roy or such, that may not break so easily if something happens, like a ponied horse gets a leg over a rein or such.

Mechanical hackamores are not that good for training, but are good for some horses with a rare problem with bits and well trained horses.

Mechanical hackamores are not gentle bits in themselves, but like any other bit out there, they can be said to be as gentle as the hands on the reins behind them.

Mechanical hackamores have a nutcracker effect on the horse’s face and can break those fragile bones.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7548731]
That is a mechanical hackamore.

Those are used for timed events in playdays, that is why the talk is like it is there, to help the horses in the barrel racing turns and pole bending and such.

You can try, see how you like it.

Many decades ago, plenty of pony horses at the track went on mechanical hackamores, but those were older horses that were not going to pull anything you needed more of a training bit for.
They used a bit heavier mechanical hackamore, like the Roy or such, that may not break so easily if something happens, like a ponied horse gets a leg over a rein or such.

Mechanical hackamores are not that good for training, but are good for some horses with a rare problem with bits and well trained horses.[/QUOTE]

Thanks Bluey. For the record, this horse is nearly finished, he is ponying some in the mornings already. Not necessarily green, he’s almost “there”, just fine tuning now.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7548738]
Thanks Bluey. For the record, this horse is nearly finished, he is ponying some in the mornings already. Not necessarily green, he’s almost “there”, just fine tuning now.[/QUOTE]

I was adding some more, sorry.

You can try and see how it goes for you, some pony riders liked them on some horses.

[walkinthewalk]

Like anything else, hackamores are only as nightmarish as the hands holding the reins that are attached to that nose piece.

They also have to be perfectly adjusted for each horse.

I have a 20 yr old TWH and 28 yr old Arab who have both been in nothing but mechanical hackamores their entire lives.

Both are retired thanks to my injuries, but they were hard core trail horses.

For several years, the Arab was an excellent lesson horse for children under 12, wearing a hackamore all the while because the children were taught not to be heavy-handed.

Heavy hands and many types of bit less bridles do not go well together, mechanical hackamores included:)

[gaitedincali]

What about a shorter-shanked hack? Like a little S, or beetle hack.

http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07578-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5 - there’s a flat leather nose version, too.
http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07574-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

The jim warner hack has a little more shank - http://www.valleyvet.com/ct_detail.html?pgguid=30e07577-7b6a-11d5-a192-00b0d0204ae5

[Angelico]

Gaitedincali: the Beetle looks like what I think I’m looking for! Thanks!

Thanks for the advice everyone, I guess we’ll just have to see if he likes it, if not, there will be a giveaway on here in a few weeks.

[Bluey]

The bettle hackamore is even less adequate for ponying horses at the track for most horses.
It is barely above using a halter.

You need a more substantial mechanical hackamore, just have light hands on it, but you have the extra power that gives you to handle a horse one handed while trying to keep a colt acting up from ending up in your lap.

Not that you can’t use anything you want to use, but when the chips are down and you are ponying and the horse you are riding gets strong on you, that one time in 1000 that may happen, you may want to have some more than a mere halter or the equivalent on it’s head.

About like asking grooms to use a chain shank, if they never ever need one, to keep everyone else safer that one rare time a horse may seriously act up and get away from them with a simple leadrope.

You don’t have to use anything you have but with the lightest touch, but you have the extra power that one time you may need it.

You may want to ask this question in the racing forum, as some pony riders there can tell you what their experiences are.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7549489]
The bettle hackamore is even less adequate for ponying horses at the track for most horses.
It is barely above using a halter.

You need a more substantial mechanical hackamore, just have light hands on it, but you have the extra power that gives you to handle a horse one handed while trying to keep a colt acting up from ending up in your lap.

Not that you can’t use anything you want to use, but when the chips are down and you are ponying and the horse you are riding gets strong on you, that one time in 1000 that may happen, you may want to have some more than a mere halter or the equivalent on it’s head.

About like asking grooms to use a chain shank, if they never ever need one, to keep everyone else safer that one rare time a horse may seriously act up and get away from them with a simple leadrope.

You don’t have to use anything you have but with the lightest touch, but you have the extra power that one time you may need it.

You may want to ask this question in the racing forum, as some pony riders there can tell you what their experiences are.[/QUOTE]

I’ve ponied hundreds of races on many different ponies, at multiple tracks, thanks. I wasn’t worried about using it for the job, just this horse in particular. I actually have ponied with a just a halter in a pinch. I use my seat and legs. There is actually a lady here at Lone Star right now that ponies bridleless.

[chicamux]

I have been using an English Hackamore like this:
http://www.actionridertack.com/p-1332-action-rider-english-hackamores.aspx

for endurance, trail and ponying horses for many years. I prefer the “english” hackamore because you can put your own nose piece on it, whatever type you prefer. You can use whatever sort of curb strap or curb chain suits your horse. I use a standard english bit curb chain. With this type of hackamore you will be able to get the flat curb chain to hang right in the chin groove which IMO gets much better response from the horse than a higher placed curb chain.

I think that most english style hackamores sold in this country are too cheaply made, usually made of a crummy chromed metal. The one I use is a cast aluminum shank made in the UK. It’s available here from a couple of businesses. It’s a bit mild but so are many hackamores. I have galloped the boys around farm fields with them.

You said that your pony likes to hang his tongue out. In my experience this often is because the horse just can’t stand having a bit ON their tongue or has a low palette and there isn’t enough room for the thickness of the bit and his tongue. I found that switching that type of horse to a thin diameter bit with a wide and medium to high port gives them the tongue relief that they need. Myler has several curb bits that have that sort of port. It may be the solution for the tongue hanging out. It was for two of my horses.

chicamuxen

[Reagan]

If he liked a halter why not try something like this: http://www.doversaddlery.com/hackamore-noseband/p/X1-0853/?ids=n0g3z2555j5ypayr45a3ux2y

This is my go-to. It is very gentle and most horses go really well in it. I’ve always heard about the harshness of mechanical hack’s so I’ve never used one.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7549533]
I’ve ponied hundreds of races on many different ponies, at multiple tracks, thanks. I wasn’t worried about using it for the job, just this horse in particular. I actually have ponied with a just a halter in a pinch. I use my seat and legs. There is actually a lady here at Lone Star right now that ponies bridleless.[/QUOTE]

Just because you can, that doesn’t mean that if the chips are down and a wreck ensues, you will be called on not being safety conscious first, showboating like that without a bridle.
i am surprised track management has not said something.

When I was training at the track, if some stable kept leading horses around with a lead rope and carelessly, sooner or later we knew they would get in trouble, loose horse running thru everyone else’s.
There is a good reason why you do things the way we do them and it is because if you always are careful to be as security conscious as you can be, if and when something happen, you know you were already doing your best.
If you go cutting corners just because you can get by with it, when things happen, well, why second guess yourself, especially when others will be the ones that may be hurt?

I too rode gathering and driving cattle once without a bridle for several hours, because I could, but I would not do that regularly and not when it really matters, like ponying at the track or helping the neighbors.

Then, everyone has to decide for themselves how they want to handle their own situation.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7549599]
Just because you can, that doesn’t mean that if the chips are down and a wreck ensues, you will be called on not being safety conscious first, showboating like that without a bridle.
i am surprised track management has not said something.

A couple of guys have bridleless ponies in the mornings at Santa Anita as well. Amazing what a little time and leg can accomplish.

When I was training at the track, if some stable kept leading horses around with a lead rope and carelessly, sooner or later we knew they would get in trouble, loose horse running thru everyone else’s.
There is a good reason why you do things the way we do them and it is because if you always are careful to be as security conscious as you can be, if and when something happen, you know you were already doing your best.
If you go cutting corners just because you can get by with it, when things happen, well, why second guess yourself, especially when others will be the ones that may be hurt?

I too rode gathering and driving cattle once without a bridle for several hours, because I could, but I would not do that regularly and not when it really matters, like ponying at the track or helping the neighbors.

Then, everyone has to decide for themselves how they want to handle their own situation.[/QUOTE]

Have you ever ponied a race? I’ve never used a pony I couldn’t drop the reins on at a gallop and trust him to keep going (I’ve had to grab broken bridles on the racehorses in mid-gallop). I can stop the pony with my seat and steer with my legs. I’m not brave enough to go totally bridle-less, hence the reason I am looking for a bit or bridle that will be to my horse’s liking. If you are dependent on a shank bit, take that pony back to the farm, please.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7549855]
Have you ever ponied a race? I’ve never used a pony I couldn’t drop the reins on at a gallop and trust him to keep going (I’ve had to grab broken bridles on the racehorses in mid-gallop). I can stop the pony with my seat and steer with my legs. I’m not brave enough to go totally bridle-less, hence the reason I am looking for a bit or bridle that will be to my horse’s liking. If you are dependent on a shank bit, take that pony back to the farm, please.[/QUOTE]

A time or two.

I have also seen my share of wrecks from overconfident or just not skilled enough people also.:eek:
Long ago, yes, but I would guess today’s trainers are not any less particular than we were then.:yes:

If you are working at a track, then you should understand what I am taking about.

[Angelico]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7549875]
A time or two.

I have also seen my share of wrecks from overconfident or just not skilled enough people also.:eek:
Long ago, yes, but I would guess today’s trainers are not any less particular than we were then.:yes:

If you are working at a track, then you should understand what I am taking about.:)[/QUOTE]

I do, I’m the one actually still working at the tracks. I asked for advice on a hackamore, not how to do my job, I have been making a fine living doing this for many years now. I will decide what is “safe” to use during our job. This tangent is silly. I know you are an intelligent horsewoman, I’ve seen you give some great tips and advice.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Angelico;7550002]
I do, I’m the one actually still working at the tracks. I asked for advice on a hackamore, not how to do my job, I have been making a fine living doing this for many years now. I will decide what is “safe” to use during our job. This tangent is silly. I know you are an intelligent horsewoman, I’ve seen you give some great tips and advice.[/QUOTE]

You asked for advice on a horse forum.
You got advice, you liked some, don’t like other, no need to get huffy about what you don’t like, really.

I still find hard to believe anyone would be permitted on a track to ride without a bridle, any more than without a helmet.
Not that you can ride fine without either, but it is about that one time you may not.

Ponying horses on a track without a bridle sound like one of those “hold my beer” stunts, sorry.
That from someone that uses riding without a bridle as part of training and teaching others to ride.
There is a place for everything, including some times riding without a bridle, but I can’t imagine being permitted to do that regularly while ponying horses at a track every morning.
Then, what do I know, maybe today everything goes on tracks any more, that would not have decades ago.

[Angelico]

I asked for advice on a type of bit I have no experience with, not about a job which has kept me fed for years. I described the type of horse I have. I got some great suggestions, you explained why there is a stigma about them, etc.

This is a silly argument to even partake in. Good night.

[Cindyg]

There’s a similar thread over on the endurance forum right now with some good examples posted.

[Pocket_Pony]

[QUOTE=Bluey;7549875]
A time or two.

I have also seen my share of wrecks from overconfident or just not skilled enough people also.:eek:
Long ago, yes, but I would guess today’s trainers are not any less particular than we were then.:yes:

If you are working at a track, then you should understand what I am taking about.:)[/QUOTE]

Geez Bluey, let it go. Why is it that you assume that anyone who asks a question has no skill? This is the OP’s job. I’m sure she/he is not careless in the way she conducts her business and makes a living. Your endless and needless badgering of people gets really old.

[Bluey]

[QUOTE=Pocket Pony;7550143]
Geez Bluey, let it go. Why is it that you assume that anyone who asks a question has no skill? This is the OP’s job. I’m sure she/he is not careless in the way she conducts her business and makes a living. Your endless and needless badgering of people gets really old.[/QUOTE]

Did you ever think that maybe the badgering some get at times for answering posters, by some that don’t have anything else to say but picking at someone, may also get old?

Did you realize who first was being short here, asking my credentials to tell him anything in a rather curt manner?
I was answering and a bit more politely than the question was posed.:yes: