George Morris on the SS list

You, as a parent, have EVERY RIGHT to enroll your child in a sports program with a known sexual predator. You can do that. No one is stopping you. Go ahead. Just don’t expect to be allowed to compete with the rule abiding folks.

Going back to your medical analogy: Why, as a parent or parent-to-be, would one CHOOSE to go to a hospital with a high infant mortality rate? A responsible adult would CHOOSE a better hospital in order to reduce risk to mother and child, right?

In sport, you also have a RESPONSIBILITY to your child, to provide them with a healthy, positive learning experience that fosters life skills and self-esteem. You—and we as the greater sports community—also have a responsibility to protect them from grievous harm. Why, as a parent, would you knowingly and willingly increase risk of harm to your child exponentially by purposely exposing them to a known sexual predator? To put a known sexual predator in a position of trust and in a position of power over your child?

You use an example from the medical field. I’m sure you are aware that doctors found to have sexually assaulted minors are typically struck off, yes? Would you CHOOSE to send your child to a pediatrician that has been struck off by the medical board for Sexual Misconduct – Involving Minor? If so, please share your thinking.

[I]You can CHOOSE to use a sexual predator as your child’s coach. The rest of us can CHOOSE block sexual predators and the people who associate with and support them from our sport.

We CHOOSE to work toward a safe playing field.

ETA: Of course, we equestrians can CHOOSE not to comply with SafeSport, with the full understanding that we also then choose to forego Olympic participation.[/I]

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http://thehorseofdelawarevalley.com/news/1573-letters-to-the-editor , Sara Cavanaugh:

“It was not to judge George Morris innocent or guilty but to point out that George Morris, along with other people banned for life, found out only AFTER they were banned that they had been banned”

Wait… GM and others should have found out that they were banned BEFORE they were banned?

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Ah, I think I get you…maybe.

There have always been those among us who are more progressive in our definition of protection of innocents, and differing personal mores when it comes to what one would and wouldn’t do. I do think it’s a bit of a stretch to say “everyone” as though cultural mores (or law even) were the only thing keeping people from abuse. The stats are 1 in 6 even now, so I don’t think current laws and mores are keeping people who would commit bad behavior from doing so. But that’s more philosophical on the inability of culture and law to really prevent poor behavior.

That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. Culture changes slowly, and hopefully these actions will reduce the incidences by informing everyone of what to watch out for and help to raise kids with attitudes that some of these behaviors are unthinkable.

</anthropologist geek>

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Thank you for calling them pederasts. That’s what they are.

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I know, second time around was not more clear, sorry.

I think that everyone knows right from wrong.

When some choose to do wrong, they do wrong.
I don’t believe they don’t know any better, cultural mores or not.
When others don’t go there, when abusers have to hide to abuse, when they have to “groom” victims?

I won’t buy that, common to a culture or not, at any time abuse is or was acceptable because some did.

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This is how to think of it, if you ask me… GHM has been taking advantage of our ambition, as riders or as competitors, with his hideous, abusive nature.

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:lol::lol::lol:

Again, as Oprah said, you just have to wait for some people/ideologies to die off.

Calling them out is so so important.

@rollingabout, suggest you go spread your wisdom on some incel pages.

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You must be furious about the sex offender list then, which often prevents people from living or working near schools or with children or in other sensitive situations.

I mean, this is kind of what the law does all the time. You’re only just now noticing? I’m honestly confused by your alleged argument.

And I can appreciate that you might be annoyed, but to call it “abusive” makes me think you don’t really know what that word means. I am glad for you, I suppose, that you’ve never suffered real deprivation, to find this to be an apex of your suffering as a parent.

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Wow, this area of law is really the gift that keeps on giving in terms of intellectual puzzles for lawyers! As soon as I heard about this one-year “revival” of expired claims, I wondered if there are any legal challenges to such a maneuver. For those who are curious, here’s an article that says federal courts have deemed it allowable, but state courts have split roughly in half.

https://static1.squarespace.com/stat…_SOL_Const.pdf

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@Zirgs,

But the people that SafeSport bans are not all on sexual offender registries. The ban is beyond predators. Go look for yourself how many on that list fall under any state or federal registry. It is a quick internet search. You can even call SafeSport and ask them yourself if all banned individulas have full legal convictions or have some settled in court in nocontest because the trial is too expensive, or are some banned based only on the statement in a report.

Again anyone can report OneGrayPony for a sex offense. SafeSport will ban you based on their interpretation of the criminal offense and how much they believe the information in the report. Imagine you are innocent, and the law exhonerates any false claims against you, but you are still banned - how does that not bother you?

This is not about posting legal findings and holding those that are legally guilty accountable.

I’m not sure I understand your point here, perhaps because you’re conflating criminal, civil and Safe Sport sanctions.

Are you saying if multiple people make a complaint to Safe Sport, and their complaints are found credible after investigation, but they choose not to pursue criminal charges, because of statute of limitations, lack of willlingness of the prosecuting attorneys or a host of other reasons, you don’t think the abuser should be banned?

That’s your standard? That you have to get a criminal conviction in court in order to be sanctioned by the governing body of a sport?

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I really REALLY hope the people who defend the likes of GM RG and these other losers don’t have kids. They are the EXACT type of parents a predator wants to have in their barn, not like they would ever believe their child!

A few years ago I started to really research pizzagate because of my interest in child protection. Everyone thought I was nuts, telling them about Epstein and his dirty secrets, Hollywood and their secrets (they were out years ago, just no one believed). I just kept telling everyone, the time will come and you won’t think I am so crazy.

Anyways, I believe in time, the truth will come out so far that it will absolutely be shoved down the non believers throats until they choke on it.

Until then, keep on fighting the good fight.

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The I Stand With George folks are really, really reaching. This was a post this morning:

“Another little gem from the USEF Safe Sport Policy. Section IV, A.1. (page 6): “It is a violation of this Policy for a Participant to be or have been subject to any disposition or resolution of a criminal proceeding…” and is so broadly written that it includes juvenile actions. The age of the conviction is not relevant, except perhaps in considering sanctions. This means if you ever protested the Viet Nam War and got a misdemeanor conviction (and people did this as a point of pride!) or if you ever were cited for public intoxication at a frat party, or ever had a shoplifting cite as a juvenile - yes, you can be sanctioned by USEF. Maybe even banned for life. Even true criminals have the right to have their records expunged under some circumstances. Not with Safe Sport.”

I mean, she had to deliberately cut off the rule, and the listing of prohibited conduct right above this portion, in order to pretend what she says is true. I mean, if the Safe Sport rules are so horrid, why would you have to edit them so they say something they don’t?

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I honestly can’t believe anyone in a licensed field of work would question Safesport and how it works. Maybe because they are comparing it to some state licensing boards which can on occasion be made up of somewhat unqualified persons?

But the rhetoric doesn’t sound that way at all. Instead it is all about the power to ban people from their livelihood and how unconstitutional that is- all licensing can do that.

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Directing us to Reddit and a thread filled with incels likely…gtfoh

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He did though- there’s not way he had those mailing lists and that statement crafted within an hour of discovering he was banned. He knew he was being investigated, he knows who made the claims. Has done for at least a year i would think based on SS workflow.

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Thinking through to the future of our sport, how can we help protect the children? History has exposed ours as a culture of gossip and pathetically little action, so how do we protect kids outside of USEF shows? Those kids riding on the local circuit whose well-meaning but clueless parents don’t know that the trainer was banned by SS (and either don’t know or think to look at the list)?

Another question to ponder, are local circuit managers in any way responsible for allowing known sexual predators at their shows? Could someone sue them in the future? Obviously if the person is criminally found guilty, that could make it easier, but is there a reciprocity in place for, say, a Virginia trainer who was found guilty in another state?

Short of posting a sign of current SS banned offenders at the show office (not possible because of Constitutional rights and potentially a libel suit), I can’t think of how those local kids could be protected from the likes of local hero predators?

Would licensing trainers be a start?

Is there a solution?

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It’s not against the law to show horses on stacked NSAIDs, but I’m pretty sure there is a public list of people “doing time” for that “crime” on the Internet. It’s a shorter “sentence” than most SafeSport terms, but it’s a less severe transgression.

SafeSport is NOT criminal law. Constitutional rights are not impacted by a SafeSport sanction. You can live where you want. You can come and go as you please. You can vote. You can protest the government. You can practice your religion. You can speak your mind. You can own a gun.

You can’t train horses or coach riders in/at USEF sanctioned competitions or events, or those sanctioned by organizations with a reciprocal agreement, such as the FEI or Equestrian Canada.

A disbarred judge cannot hold court. A struck off doctor cannot practice medicine. A banned coach cannot coach. Reality bites.

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He was threatening people and their families. Yeah, definitely he didn’t know anything, complete shock :rolleyes:

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I purged my FB friends after the response to RG. I didn’t do it right away but gave time for the dust to settle and to give people the ability to get educated and process his suicide.

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I mean, except a banned coach can coach.

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