Yes, everyone has skeletons.
But probably, hopefully most of us never raped children
George Morris groomed and took advantage of children for decades.
@Crashing Boar, you and many others will remember George fondly, no one can take that from you.
But he raped children dude. We absolutely need to judge that and say no more!!! no matter who this will not be tolerated in the sport.
You are still totally free to tolerate and support him in your personal time and life.
And Harry Chamberlin and Gordon Wright. I was under the impression that GM was molded by Wright. If he started in Connecticut there was a very famous school for young riders there but I forget the name.
Looked it up. It is the New Canaan Mounted Horse Troop, founded and run by Margaret Cabell Self in GM’s time. She was a very prolific writer of horse books, most for children. Since GM is from New Canaan, it’s very likely that he got his start in horses with her.
And that’ why the courses were changed to favor WBs. The French started doing it back in the 1950s to favor the Selle Francais.
Sorry Crashing Boar that ain’t gonna fly with me. Obviously, you’ve never been the victim/survivor of a violent crime. Sure, my attacker may have been a “good guy” at one time, hell for all I know, 363 days of the year he attacked me he was. But on the night he attacked me, he was the devil incarnate and believe me - he wasn’t drunk or high - he knew exactly what he was doing. I’ll judge him all I want - thank you very much. And considering he was never caught - that’s all I’ve got.
And truth be told there’s a big difference between a good guy whose life gets turned upside down, whose obviously suffering from some mental health issues and GM, sexual misconduct with a minor, I mean come on, you just can’t put a good spin on that no matter how hard you try. Somethings are unforgiveable no matter who you are.
I am not saying “judge not that ye may be judged” at all. I am saying the opposite in fact in that all the wonderful stuff he has done doesn’t mean it’s impossible for him to have done the awful stuff as well. It doesn’t mean his wonderful stuff wasn’t wonderful, it unarguably is unless you are one who has to argue for the sake of arguing but it doesn’t change the fact that he did some heinous things as well. Much like priests who dedicate their lives to serving God and mankind all while molesting children. You can’t say he helped feed thousands of starving children in Africa so there is no way he molested the choirboy. They are separate and completely independent of each other and neither made it impossible for the other to have taken place.
I’m sorry, I guess you got something out of your lessons with him that was worth it for you. But reading this description of the clinic just makes me sad. This is simply training teenagers that they should not have any respect for themselves and should put up with whatever a famous trainer wants to say or do to them. And people wonder why folks don’t report abuse - they have literally been taught that it is okay and expected by the people around them that they trust. They are hearing the lesson - If you put up with the abuse this time, next time maybe you’ll be the star student. Yes, this story was about verbal abuse, not sexual abuse, but if you see that people are accepting of verbal abuse in public because it’s a famous trainer, why would anyone being sexually abused by a famous trainer in private think anyone would care.
Originally posted by dags
‘’'they were still making their way out of the Draft Ages when our thirst for tall, beefy, slow-footed creatures arrived on the scene…
Agreed. A lot of them were real cart horses when they first hit the scene, mostly as dressage horses. They have evolved tremendously as the courses got tighter and the TA got faster and faster in both jumpers and eventing. And certainly the WBs of the early 90’s wouldn’t do at all in the hunter ring.
Having said that, I will say I have always loved TBs and I’m glad they are making a comeback in the hunters, at least in classes of their own.
Well, when I spoke with this kid the clinic was over, and I was basically trying to help her make lemonade out of a humiliating experience, having also been there myself. And I didn’t really think I’d clinic with him again ever, but I was a couple decades older with thicker skin and prepared for the worst even though I got a better experience at the end of the day. When I was a kid, I didn’t dare talk back to a clinician. But I also faked it when he told me to hit my OTTB with my crop repeatedly and said OTTB was melting down, and I took the resulting abuse for that decision and for yawning and for his assistant putting my spurs back on wrong and whatever else I got yelled at for. I dunno, that’s how I was taught to be a coachable student. There’s no crying in baseball. Is it wrong to coach someone in the manner in which he does a lot of the time? Yes. And I didn’t try to convince that kid that he wasn’t a mean old man–quite the contrary. I told her not to let that mean old man make her give up on her drive for riding. But by this decade, I mean really, if you take a clinic you know (or your trainer should make you aware) you are likely signing up for some abuse. And sure, his power is what allowed him to get away with that for many decades and allowed him to get away with all of the other things he’s done. That doesn’t mean that he also hasn’t done good things. It also doesn’t mean the bad things he has done should always be whitewashed or that he shouldn’t face the consequences for them.
I’m 100% ok with people judging child abusers and child molesters. Horse abusers and cheaters too.
Great. Another one who posts without reading the 100+ prior pages. To summarize for you: yes, there is due process. No, GHM’s rights haven’t been violated.
If you read the SafeSport policies, you would feel less bewildered.
Here’s the link: https://safesport.org/files/details/114
I recommend jumping to page 21 of the manual and beginning with the “resolution procedures” section.
You’re welcome! 
Yes, I believe you had good intentions in speaking with her, I just wonder what lesson she took away from both the clinic and the discussion.
And I really don’t mean to pick on you in particular, as I have certainly heard many similar stories about GM clinics. It just makes me sad that for many, many years the community’s response to this sort of abusive behavior has been to tell the victims to put up with it in order to learn rather than telling the abuser that it’s unacceptable. I realize that a lot of the research/knowledge about effective learning/coaching styles is recent and many people still believe a strict and stern instructional style is the best way to learn (and it may be for them), but I think there’s always been a difference between strict and abusive that hopefully will start to be better acknowledged going forwards.
I realize there’s a group of people out there convinced that the COTH forums are full of mean people who are enjoying nothing more than tearing down George Morris (and Rob Gage). Out of our petty meanness or whatever.
I can say that’s not the case for me, and probably not for the vast majority of those who have commented. I was very sad to read of Gage’s death, and even though I wondered if SS would catch up with GM, I was saddened to read the news. It’s painful for our sport.
But what crushed me more, and what I had to push back against, was the idea that he couldn’t possibly have victims. The idea that we don’t need SafeSport, the idea that some professionals are so important that they are above the law and above ethical restrictions. And if that means I have to explain to people all of the sad bits of evidence that I know about, so that they get an inkling of what they may be defending, I will do that. I would have rather a situation where everyone had accepted that SafeSport probably knew something we didn’t and stick with the collective sadness, rather than dig up and hash out details.
We all need to come to grips with the fact that someone can be a great athlete or coached successfully for many years and still do bad things. We know this from other sports, after all. And pretty much all walks of life.
We can’t let them be above the law. We can’t let them hurt people or horses without consequence. We can’t fail to protect our next generation.
The kids they hurt are as important to our sport as they are.
As far as “digital lynching,” I can only shake my head at how little you understand that word, and how much our teaching of history has failed us. Lynching was a level of torture and cruelty that I cannot fully describe on this board without running afoul of forum rules. But it usually involved dismemberment, and then death, in that order. I don’t think “forced into a comfortable if slightly earlier than planned retirement at age 81” can or should be described with the same word.
You are referring to a standard “lynching” which has a different description.
Digital Lynch mob and digital lynching are actually common terms and current terms to describe current online behavior. It refers “to the situation where someone says something on SoMe which others find offensive or questionable. People who often have no prior connection to the original poster bash and sometimes attack the original poster for what was said.”
One is current behavior (digital variety) and the other is (at least we hope it is) in the past. I moderate professional communities and SoMe channels as part of my employment and yes, digital lynching and digital lynch mobbing are real terms. To attack someone for using a current term is demonstrative of what “digital lynching” or “digital lynch mobbing is.”
Now you and everyone else reading are woke to the term. You can continue to hate it and mock those using it, but you only serve to bring to life the very definition of what it is if you choose to do so.
Carry on.
I’m not working under any assumption at all. If the lessor does not want to renew the lease, he or she does not have to talk to the lessee at all. You are the one dreaming up the situation of who is talking to whom and getting lawyers involved. And leases usually have an expiration date that is agreed upon when signed, or if it is time period to time period, the terms of ending the lease are laid out in the lease. Usually something like either party can end the lease with X days notice. No need to get lawyers involved if you go by what already is agreed upon. Can’t imagine why someone would not have a lease that never ends.
I don’t think this meets either definition.
This thread is about George Morris, who while he certainly has said some pretty shitty things, is banned and being discussed because he raped children.
I disagree with you. He would ridicule and shame riders if they did not wear a shirt he approved of or a saddle pad color he approved of. Or they were overweight or made some mistakes. The color you wear and the color saddle pad or boots you put on your horse has nothing to do with horsemanship, and for a grown man to harp on this repeatedly is ridiculous. He was being paid for riding lessons, not fashion advice. But no one dares speak up about how nasty and arrogant he was, and he got away with way too much. I think you can educate people while being respectful. In his world, respect was a one way street.
Which is pretty surprising given that he appears in USET training session video used in -The Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit- oops I meant The Horse With The Flying Tail - wearing an orange shirt and rust breeches, but I digress. 
Courts are scrambling all over and are suspending Statutes of Limitations in many cases.
GM was in Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit?!!
Or was it a character similar to him? Played by (I think) Lloyd Bochner?
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