George Morris on the SS list

[Crashing_Boar]

@Tigre Horse

Sorry Crashing Boar that ain’t gonna fly with me. Obviously, you’ve never been the victim/survivor of a violent crime. Sure, my attacker may have been a “good guy” at one time, hell for all I know, 363 days of the year he attacked me he was. But on the night he attacked me, he was the devil incarnate and believe me - he wasn’t drunk or high - he knew exactly what he was doing. I’ll judge him all I want - thank you very much. And considering he was never caught - that’s all I’ve got.

And truth be told there’s a big difference between a good guy whose life gets turned upside down, whose obviously suffering from some mental health issues and GM, sexual misconduct with a minor, I mean come on, you just can’t put a good spin on that no matter how hard you try. Somethings are unforgiveable no matter who you are.

Actually, I have been the survivor of violent criminals. And at an impressionably young age, too.

First, my house was broken into and rifled by burglars, with many very personally treasured items stolen. 1978.

Second, I was robbed at gunpoint in my own office just before Christmas the year I turned 23. That kind of stuff stays with you; I will never drop my guard in a convenience store, gas station, or bodega ever again. We were herded into the bathroom and told to kneel with our hands behind our heads; didn’t know if we were about to be pistol-whipped or much worse. A strange calm overtakes you at times like that . . . I told myself I’d had a really good life. They left us.

So I had some very up-close-and personal, indelible experience as to how the presence of a gun can turn a loser POS into the dominant party in any situation, with the lives of good people in his unworthy hands. That awareness is not paranoia or fear, but it is like a “backround program” which is always running. I do not carry, but I do have a gun for self-defense in my home. Because I know..

Doesn’t mean I project my experience onto everyone I meet, public or private. Maybe y’all ought to hang your own abuse on the people who DID it, instead of projecting it onto George?

All we really know yet is that something SS deemed inappropriate happened, most likely a very long time ago. We do not know (and may never!) what that was. Those above screeching that he “raped children!!!” are jumping the gun. Blame those who actually abused YOU for your abuse, not people you barely know about whom you know very little.

[hut-ho78]

@dannyboy

Originally posted by dags

Agreed. A lot of them were real cart horses when they first hit the scene, mostly as dressage horses. They have evolved tremendously as the courses got tighter and the TA got faster and faster in both jumpers and eventing. And certainly the WBs of the early 90’s wouldn’t do at all in the hunter ring.

Having said that, I will say I have always loved TBs and I’m glad they are making a comeback in the hunters, at least in classes of their own.

Agree!

[chisamba]

I was taught by a person who yelled. I suppose she was taught by a person who yelled. I have had to work very hard to retrain myself to teach politely, respectfully, to understand there are definitely better ways to demonstrate a point to help a rider. Horribly enough, when a rider is really close to being better or i get intense, i can still be too loud and I have to actually walk a few steps take a breath, stop the rider and explain quietly and respectfully what that thing is. We can often do to others as has been done to us.

I think once the power quotient is reduced, it will be realized that GM legacy is actually horrible. It made a lot of things seem okay that just were not okay, both in the sexualizing of children, and in the ridiculing and bullying in lessons. The manipulation even his praise of one rider was actually to ridicule another. There are other ways to teach well. I am trying to pattern myself after the better way. Changing that kind of behavior is not easy for me. it is however possible, just as following the MAAP policies is possible. Maintaining a good relationship with the kids is possible , even while observing a code of conduct.

just my opinion

[Bogie]

@vineyridge

And Harry Chamberlin and Gordon Wright. I was under the impression that GM was molded by Wright. If he started in Connecticut there was a very famous school for young riders there but I forget the name.

Looked it up. It is the New Canaan Mounted Horse Troop, founded and run by Margaret Cabell Self in GM’s time. She was a very prolific writer of horse books, most for children. Since GM is from New Canaan, it’s very likely that he got his start in horses with her.

Yes, he rode at NCMT. He used to come and give clinics there when I rode there to “give back” to the community. I watched one clinic and knew I didn’t have the stomach to be insulted or belittled by an instructor. I don’t remember any pearls of wisdom from his teaching, only that he made more than one girl cry. Riding in an area like New Canaan gave riders such a host of excellent trainers to choose from; I could never understand the appeal of riding with someone who was downright nasty.

[Capall]

@Crashing Boar

Actually, I have been the survivor of violent criminals. And at an impressionably young age, too.

First, my house was broken into and rifled by burglars, with many very personally treasured items stolen. 1978.

Second, I was robbed at gunpoint in my own office just before Christmas the year I turned 23. That kind of stuff stays with you; I will never drop my guard in a convenience store, gas station, or bodega ever again. We were herded into the bathroom and told to kneel with our hands behind our heads; didn’t know if we were about to be pistol-whipped or much worse. A strange calm overtakes you at times like that . . . I told myself I’d had a really good life. They left us.

So I had some very up-close-and personal, indelible experience as to how the presence of a gun can turn a loser POS into the dominant party in any situation, with the lives of good people in his unworthy hands. That awareness is not paranoia or fear, but it is like a “backround program” which is always running. I do not carry, but I do have a gun for self-defense in my home. Because I know..

Doesn’t mean I project my experience onto everyone I meet, public or private. Maybe y’all ought to hang your own abuse on the people who DID it, instead of projecting it onto George?

All we really know yet is that something SS deemed inappropriate happened, most likely a very long time ago. We do not know (and may never!) what that was. Those above screeching that he “raped children!!!” are jumping the gun. Blame those who actually abused YOU for your abuse, not people you barely know about whom you know very little.

I can’t words. I literally can’t words. Wow.

No amount of proof save a video of GM in the act of raping children will be enough for some people. And even then many would probably say “well, they don’t appear to be fighting him off so how do we know it’s rape?”

BTW, the charges state that he was banned for SEXUAL misconduct with a MINOR. Jonathan Soresi has come out and said that he was one of the victims. at THIRTEEN years old. We all know how JS turned out, so I can go out on a limb and say that I believe the abuse is clear in his mind still and that it doesn’t matter how many years have passed, he still is affected by it.

Go on and continue to defend child molesters. It shows what kind of person you are. “Well it didn’t happen to me and I don’t know the details, and I have a lack of empathy so I will not judge the abuser”

[Pennywell_Bay]

@IPEsq

Ok this is getting a little bit into crazy town.

My cover photo on facebook has been a photo of me in a GM clinic where I’m jumping a jump and he’s standing next to the standard. It’s been up for years as a sign of the last time I had an opportunity to jump some relatively bigger sticks. I haven’t been on the ISWG group and here I’ve only commented on the procedural and legal authority of SS. I’ve learned a lot from GM over the decades. I’ve also had him throw dirt at me, call me a dummy, and a bunch of other not so nice things. I also would not be entirely surprised if he loses his appeal but I don’t have any personal knowledge of any facts one way or the other. I think it would be absolutely crazy if someone called my employer or the bar association to say well, she left the photo up so she must be a supporter of child molesters because of a 5 year old photo. I also have a signed photo with a personal note to me…should I burn that?

There’s a leap between that and saying I defend his actions. I mean, aside from the SS allegations, I never thought it was right of him to be such a bully, or to use some of the training methods he’s used (while also being against any “gimmicks” or shortcuts…hypocritical much?). I was a star student at the clinic where the photo came from, and at that same clinic he was quite mean to a younger rider who was trying really hard but wasn’t the most experienced and was a little over-horsed. He called her a baby repeatedly and made fun of her weight, got mad at her trainer for matching her with that horse, etc etc. She watched me in my session be the star student. Her trainer asked me to talk to her after the clinic. I told her that when I was her age, he threw dirt in my mouth (well, he missed and it went down my boot) and was mean to my horse and he can be just an awful person. I said to ignore all of that, but take in the actual substance of your lesson about your position and the importance of attention to detail, and effective use of aids, and work hard and you will succeed.

Unlike most people who are speaking out in his favor (or who defend any predator where they only know the “good” side of the person), I can acknowledge that someone can be talented and intelligent and successful and also accept that they can simultaneously be a horrible person. If he loses his appeal, he certainly should remain banned.

I think you’ve contributed greatly to the conversation. I only want to say, and I’m sorry that I am singling your post out: this is part of the overall problem.

Someone threw dirt dirt at you, called you a dummy and other not so nice things- and yet all this can be ignored because he’s gifted at what he does. Then you advised a younger rider who he called a dummy, and made fun of her weight and god known what else - to suck it up because she’ll learn a lot from him? What the hell?

I was grew up in the “there’s no crying in baseball” mentality as well. My stoic, tough as nails dad watched a trainer berate his student at a show once - loudly and nasty- and told me if my trainer ever spoke to me like that I’d never ride with him again. Thank god. That has given me the constitution to walk away from crappy situations. I also have passed that down to my kid.

I can separate that he has contributed a lot to the sport from that of which he is accused. I can not understand allowing someone to berate, belittle and throw stuff at you because he is amazing at what he does (and pay for it).

[ladyj79]

@Capall

I can’t words. I literally can’t words. Wow.

No amount of proof save a video of GM in the act of raping children will be enough for some people. And even then many would probably say “well, they don’t appear to be fighting him off so how do we know it’s rape?”

BTW, the charges state that he was banned for SEXUAL misconduct with a MINOR. Jonathan Soresi has come out and said that he was one of the victims. at THIRTEEN years old. We all know how JS turned out, so I can go out on a limb and say that I believe the abuse is clear in his mind still and that it doesn’t matter how many years have passed, he still is affected by it.

Go on and continue to defend child molesters. It shows what kind of person you are. “Well it didn’t happen to me and I don’t know the details, and I have a lack of empathy so I will not judge the abuser”

And Jonathan is one of the luckier ones, cause he is still alive.

When the Jimmy Williams story finally broke, I said that for every Anne Kursinski, there are multiple people with drug problems, and someone who killed themselves.

Its not about one person, or even the immediate victims, it’s about a perpetuating cycle that must be stopped because it destroys lives, victims kill themselves directly or indirectly, or they go on to abuse others, verbally, physically, or sexually. It must must be stopped, and no idol can be exempt from this flood.

[YankeeDuchess]

@BigMama1

No. Because they aren’t “going after” GHM. The accuser, minor or not at the time of the misconduct, has to file a claim, which is what gets an investigation rolling. They aren’t just out there silly nilly looking into the backgrounds of trainers.

Age of consent is irrelevant when the accuser DID NOT CONSENT. It’s only relevant if someone is making a claim for statuatory rape.

Geez. Sorry my wording was unclear.

Keep in mind that the stated violation is “sexual misconduct with a minor” not “sexual misconduct”. So one issue, at least, is whether the reporter was under the AOC. I was saying that even though SafeSport has an AOC of 18 going forward, for dates prior to SafeSport being in place, I assume they could not “consider it a violation” (to replace “go after”) unless the victim was under the age of 16 if the incident occurred in New Jersey prior to 2017.

I am well aware that SafeSport passively waits to receive reports of suspected violations and does not actively seek trainers to investigate.

[vineyridge]

I may be making this up out of whole cloth, but I seem to remember that there were rumors about Gordon Wright back in the day.

[Jenerationx]

@Capall

I can’t words. I literally can’t words. Wow.

No amount of proof save a video of GM in the act of raping children will be enough for some people. And even then many would probably say “well, they don’t appear to be fighting him off so how do we know it’s rape?”

BTW, the charges state that he was banned for SEXUAL misconduct with a MINOR. Jonathan Soresi has come out and said that he was one of the victims. at THIRTEEN years old. We all know how JS turned out, so I can go out on a limb and say that I believe the abuse is clear in his mind still and that it doesn’t matter how many years have passed, he still is affected by it.

Go on and continue to defend child molesters. It shows what kind of person you are. “Well it didn’t happen to me and I don’t know the details, and I have a lack of empathy so I will not judge the abuser”

You hit the willfully ignorant nail on the head with that one. I cannot fathom how people can keep defending him.

For those that say people can have the good and the bad sides, yes, definitely. I’m sure some of the priests, coaches, etc. out there have done a lot for their communities while they diddled innocent boys. I think most of us get that.

What I don’t and will never understand is the people that are ignoring all evidence and trying to brush this under the rug, or worse, flat out denying it could have happened.

[roseymare]

I tried and have given up. I suggested someone look at other sources besides the ISWGM page and that there was an investigation and victims had come forward. The response was asking if I knew him? I guess insinuating that I can’t call him guilty if I don’t know him. Then when I pointed out that even though she had repeated it twice it was not true that a youth could NEVER EVER be in a car alone with a coach and copied the rule ver batum from the SafeSport PDF she resorted to snooping on my page and asking why my breed didn’t join SS. I answered with facts and am giving up now. These people want to moan and cry and call everything unfair without even reading the rules.

I do get the rules are a little more difficult for the horse industry because there is a third party involved (the horse) but geez Louise it is not what they are saying.

In full disclosure do think the texting part needs rethought. Group texts often are dependent upon phone operating systems and the text apps may not offer the protection that actual texting does in that they can go poof and offer no transparency. Also texting is now a normal communication mode.

[alicen]

Something is bothering me. I have known people who have overcome long standing problems with alcoholism and/or drug addiction or mental illness. Is not a lifelong ban from the USEF saying that people can not take responsibility for changing their behavior?. Is it the case that once a child molester, always a child molester? That a person can’t choose to keep his hands to himself? I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate here. I’m wondering …

[hut-ho78]

I appreciate everyone patiently explaining again and again about SafeSport on this post and RG. It helped me understand. Virginia Horse Mom, LadyJane79, Denali (bunch of numbers), poltroon, and a lot more have been great, gracious, and patient. Ok, sometimes Denali isn’t quite as patient as the others but she makes me laugh.

[poltroon]

@MHM

GM was in Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit?!!

Or was it a character similar to him? Played by (I think) Lloyd Bochner?

Dang it! I meant Horse With The Flying Tail. Sorry!!

[ladyj79]

@alicen

Something is bothering me. I have known people who have overcome long standing problems with alcoholism and/or drug addiction or mental illness. Is not a lifelong ban from the USEF saying that people can not take responsibility for changing their behavior?. Is it the case that once a child molester, always a child molester? That a person can’t choose to keep his hands to himself? I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate here. I’m wondering …

I think I said a hundred pages ago, sure, we can acknowledge the ability for people to change, but we can still not allow them around children any more.

This isn’t a jail sentence, and actually, safe sport doesn’t put anyone on the sex offender registry, so George and company can still be around all the kids they want, just not at USEF shows or sanctioned events/activities.

And as I also said a hundred or so pages ago, psychologists and psychotherapists tend to agree that pedophiles do not change. They have a virtually 100% recidivism rate.

[BLBGP]

@Groom&Taxi

I think it’s reasonable that there may be individuals who “stand with George” on a personal level while still respecting and supporting the Safe Sport process. It’s that whole “love the sinner, hate the sin” thing.

Where does hate the victim(s) come in? Because there seems to be a whole lot of that going on, too.

[hut-ho78]

@BLBGP

Where does hate the victim(s) come in? Because there seems to be a whole lot of that going on, too.

Aren’t victims blamed because of fear? No one wants to believe they are, ever were, their children are or were, so very vulnerable?

[poltroon]

@alicen

Something is bothering me. I have known people who have overcome long standing problems with alcoholism and/or drug addiction or mental illness. Is not a lifelong ban from the USEF saying that people can not take responsibility for changing their behavior?. Is it the case that once a child molester, always a child molester? That a person can’t choose to keep his hands to himself? I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate here. I’m wondering …

SafeSport does not have to choose a lifetime ban as their disciplinary action. They can elect letters of reprimand, other corrective action, time-defined suspension, etc. They seem to make their choices as any system might, based on the accused’s demeanor, cooperation, and willingness to accept corrective action, as well as the severity of the discovered conduct. They consider the likelihood of future risk. Indeed, you can browse their database (not easily mind) and see various lesser penalties. They also have the option for informal resolutions, where it seems they end up being a mediator for a situation.

I hope someone like FiSk123 or Sarah Maslin Nir or another journalist will end up writing something that tells the larger story of the cases coming to SafeSport and how they change our sport culture - removing predators, retraining people to be athlete-first, teaching standards to everyone for ethical, professional conduct, and preventing bad behavior in the first place with a combination of the strategies.

[BigMama1]

@alicen

Something is bothering me. I have known people who have overcome long standing problems with alcoholism and/or drug addiction or mental illness. Is not a lifelong ban from the USEF saying that people can not take responsibility for changing their behavior?. Is it the case that once a child molester, always a child molester? That a person can’t choose to keep his hands to himself? I’m not trying to play devil’s advocate here. I’m wondering …

When it comes to keeping kids safe (and the potential legal liability of allowing a known child molester back into the fold should he/ she reoffend) means there is no room for mistakes. That’s not a risk the USEF should or would want to take. Our NGB’s let known cheaters, drug users, horse abusers and horse killers back into the fold…sexually molesting a kid is a Do Not Pass Go offence, even for them.

[Irish_Ei_s]

IF YOU HAVE POSTED AT ISWG ON FACEBOOK LOCKDOWN YOUR PRIVACY AND CHECK YOUR FRIEND REQUESTS.

Some of those members are targeting personal pages to repulsive levels