You know, I tried to reply to this, but it was not approved. I betcha you all have an idea, though
smh
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“Due Process” is the “Benghazi! EMAILS!” of the horse world.
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@Crashing Boar
Not everyone is blessed with perfect parents or role models to help them navigate their childhood. But EVERY child deserves to be protected from abuse by adults in positions of power. That’s why there are laws and regulations in place to protect them.
It takes a village, some would say. It’s not a concept unique to modern times.
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Abuse is abuse, whether it happened last week for 50 years ago. People knew it was wrong and accepted it. People can argue age of consent, but not every 13, 14, 15 16 or 17 year old wanted sexual relations. Many resisted. Many said NO. Many went to adults. Many adults if told today would still look the other way.
New Jersey defines Consent as: According to New Jersey law, age, physical impairment and mental impairment all contribute to a person’s ability to give consent. A person must be 16 years of age to legally consent to sexual activity. A person cannot give consent to sexual activity with someone who has “the duty to care” for them unless they are over the age of 18. Individuals that fall into “the duty to care” category would include parents or guardians, and those in any type of formal supervisory role. If individuals are at least 13 years old, but less than 16 years old they can legally consent to sexual activity with a partner who is not more than 4 years older than themselves.
Some of these cases are WITHIN the legal stature of limitations.
Hunterdon is in New Jersey. New Jersey has NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS on sexual assault.
N.J. Stat. Ann. 2C:1-6 No statute of limitations: murder, manslaughter, sexual assault, terrorism, widespread injury or damage…
As of December 1, NJ removed the civil statute of Limitations for civil charges. So regardless of when the Reporting Party said the abuse occurred, GM can still be charged. Barry Lobel is presently involved in a criminal case for sexual assault that occurred in the late 70’s, early 80’s.
Massachusetts Civil Statute of Limitations is 35 years tolled until the victim turns 18; therefore anyone abused by Mitch Steege has until they turn 53 to file a civil case.
Abuse in NY - Civil - now 55 years old. For one year, victims of childhood assault can press charges. It doesn’t matter if it happened 100 years. ago.
So, those people arguing the cases are too far in the past, many are not; they are within the statute of limitations.
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Or, with all due respect, maybe you just got lucky.
The idea that nothing bad will happen to you if only you’re careful and virtuous enough underlies a lot of American culture. Conversely, if something bad did happen to you, you must have been careless or otherwise be culpable. It’s sometimes how we keep moving forward when bad things happen to other people and how we rationalize it can’t happen to us. Because we’re careful.
What a curiously interesting way these two tangents tied back together into the thread.
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Even if there were such a thing as perfect parents, their kids get sexually assaulted too.
And parents who never let the kids out of their sight? In another thread, those will be “helicopter parents” creating a doomed generation that is allegedly unable to think for themselves.
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Seriously… those under 18 and perhaps even a bit older have less life experience than adults - combine that lack of life experience with authority and its a really difficult situation. Its just wrong to take advantage of authority and relative inexperience in this way.
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For 25 years in four different states on both coasts? C’mon.
What I did do is always make sure I could afford middle-of-the-market, established barns.
And to be clear: I’m first in line to want all parts of our industry to be regulated. Check my posts on this thread and anywhere else on COTH. I think it’s a huge mistake for paying customers to roll over and take it in the bum when they are cheated by horse professionals. I mean, if the horsey set can’t afford to hold people accountable, then who can?
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@vineyridge I’ve heard your theory before. It’s taught and ingrained in generational abused/abusers that children are sexual as toddlers, precocious, come on to adults; that nubile teenagers are hot and eager; that an adult would teach them about the pleasures of sex. If there were never consequences to sexual intercourse except pleasure, if children’s’ and teenagers’ personalities were formed in the womb and not developed as they mature, if no one ever felt lonely or different, never met a situation they were not capable of handling at any age maybe that could be a conversation. Except children and teenagers are growing physically and emotionally. They may experiment. They may have bad judgement. Children may take advantage of children, the 12 year old forcing the 10 year old, boyfriends forcing girlfriends, and then the fragility of the young LGBTQ. As adults, it is all of our responsibility to ensure that young people are allowed to reach maturity with as much wise guidance as we can muster, to protect them from their mistakes, and to keep them from being hurt by those who would do them harm. Mares bred too young can be physically ruined for future breeding or may reject their foals. Young cows can be permanently injured from the weight of the bull. Children’s and teenager’s physical anatomy is not mature enough for adult anatomy. To sexualize someone before they have a formed personality is to stunt their personality, to teach them that their most valuable asset is solely to be sexually attractive to adults. That is not true. You would not put a child on a hot untrained or badly trained horse or over-face them with jumps before they have gone through training and have the knowledge and maturity to handle an out of control situation. An adult that would put a child or teenager in that kind of situation is not doing it for love, for the good of the child, even for sexual fulfillment. There is no sexual fulfillment like that of two equal adults in a loving or just strong physical attraction. There is no way awkward sexual encounters of the inexperienced can equal that level. It is a power imbalance. Because it is such an imbalance, it puts the one with less power completely vulnerable to the one with more power. A callous and careless relationship with no regard for mentoring or maturity will likely not be one that is watching out for pregnancy or sexually transmitted diseases. The physical tearing and scarring of an adult male penis on an underdeveloped child or teenager can lead to permanent damage. The damage to the emotions of a young person, by taking away their power, their choice, and their safety can lead to long term emotional damage as has been expressed by many. All of us as adults and older adults are responsible for mentoring younger adults and teenagers and children. To say that they should be mentored sexually is a lie that some have been taught as children, as adults, or one people tell themselves.
In an earlier post, I tried to describe the rush a young person gets when an adult, especially a charismatic adult, and those who abuse children for years are charismatic con artists, single them out for attention and grooming. For a child who is struggling with home issues or social awkwardness, or who is an athletic star with doting parents, to be singled out and showered with attention is stronger than a drug. When that goes away; when the child grows out of the relationship; when the child is away from that adult and the shame hits; when the threats to be silent start; it leaves a howling hole. How does that child fill it? Drugs. Alcohol. Sex. Becoming an abuser because only a child or young teenager or young naive adult is impressionable enough to look at an abusive adult as the entire world and then there is that rush of adoration again. What happens when the shame is drug into the public eye? Drugs. Alcohol. Sex. Suicide.
So for those who say, well science proves this is ok, that children are sexual, no. You are living in a world defined by abusers. It’s fun to hear young people talk and learn and it’s amazing sometimes how mature they can be on different things. However, those that groom them for sexual intercourse are not interested in their minds and their growth. It is manipulative use with terrible consequences.
For those that say hold parents accountable, I say SafeSport and the MAAP does. Many situations are allowed with written consent from parents that could be fine for an equestrian environment but could also put that child at risk. It’s hard to protect your child from everyone. Predators groom parents too.
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Honestly? :eek:
I think this takes the cake for the most disgusting post I’ve ever read on COTH (that hasn’t been deleted by the Moderator).
@vineyridge, if you don’t realize that your train of thought is truly unhealthy, I hope you will find a professional who will explain it to you.
The dysfunction of your thought process, shown in that post, is not something that can be addressed by people on an online forum.
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You all do know that Western society keeps extending childhood. The very idea of childhood as we think of it comes to us from the Victorians. The current thoughts are just one point on a very long historical scale which is, in large part, determined by the wealth of a society. We can AFFORD to set an extended childhood apart as a protected stage, but that is something that has come about in the last 150 years, and is pretty much limited to Western ideas. And Western ideas are not necessarily either better than any other ideas.
I suggest you all read this article: https://family.jrank.org/pages/232/Childhood-Modern-Western-Conception-Childhood.html
And this one. https://www.open.edu/openlearn/history-the-arts/history/different-cultures-different-childhoods
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Well. How unoriginal. So you think if you just explain how socially rigid society has become, everyone will have a lightbulb moment. The sexually enlightened helping the unlearned. Heard it all before. Didn’t buy it then. Not buying it now. I realize it’s how some people live with themselves. Soooo glad for SafeSport! Long overdue.
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When you know better, you do better.
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And the truth is sometimes kids do offer. They have crushes on their trainers, they idolize them. They compete to be picked out for favours and ride the best horses. With young kids, it’s probably not sexual, no matter how it’s perceived, but maybe with older teens, it is, maybe even on an overt level. But it’s WRONG. And here’s the thing - they can’t consent. They’re too young and ‘real men’ know that. Someone here is supposed to be a grownup. It’s not their payoff. Trainers are getting paid - in money, prestige, pride in a job well done. But please - not in sexual exploitation of children. That’s not part of the job description and anyone who thinks so should be in a different profession. [/QUOTE]
Tru dat. I had a huge crush on my swim coach. He was in college and I was 14-15. I totally would have given it up to him if he asked, because I was young and stupid and didn’t have the capability of rational thought to know that it was wrong. I flirted with him, he shut it down. He was the adult, he knew better, it was the right thing, the only thing.
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@vineyridge those articles mostly discuss the historical role children have played as far as working or education. They do not discuss the ramifications of societies that accept encourage young women to be married to older men. For that you may want to look at India (and some African countries), where child marriages are still happening and look into the (negative) effects of this practice of the girls involved, and on the society in general.
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OMG.
Dude…
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Has anyone clicked on those links? Is it something that needs to be submitted to the Center for Missing and Exploited Children?
Going to agree with skydy. No one on this forum can address this successfully. Don’t even try.
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OMG. Just OMG.
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@vineyridge Yes, but why set as low a bar as the ones set in Mississippi, India and Africa or in historical moments?
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