George Morris on the SS list

[kirbydog]

@vxf111

Well, to be fair, AFR was breeding TB for sport, quite thoughtfully, and I don’t think her TBs would at all be fairly subject to the many of the criticisms you could level at race bred TBs.

Viney got pissed off because Fred had really quality TBs and knew what she was doing and Viney thought, therefore, that Fred should only breed TBs if she was also going to tout their quality for sport. As though Viney had any right to dictate Fred’s business or call her a hypocrite for both liking TBs and WB/TB crosses.

Hmmm…makes you wonder how VR feels about mixed race relationships in humans…:disgust:

As an aside, the crap that VR and a few others spewed is one reason why I stopped CoTH forums for a while. While I really enjoy most all of you, it’s her sort of mindless verbal diarrhea that I just can’t deal with.

[ladyj79]

@skydy

I don’t think that he has as many wealthy benefactors as people imagine. I remember watching (online) the annual USEF/George Morris clinic that was given in Florida and hearing him complain that he had spent the prior evening alone and was unhappy that no one had invited him to dinner.

Because as I also pointed out, lots of people don’t like him, he’s an unkind person. Ascerbic wit grates over time, and he demands deferense. His biggest fans are generally middle aged ammies who idolize him because they think he’s their celebrity. Oh and apparently Robert Dover. He can stay at Robert’s.

[poltroon]

[edit]

Back to the topic, and tying these together - power imbalance where one person is valued over another and thus can compel the other to do whatever inherently precludes consent. We need to establish in our sport culture that if you’re a professional horseman looking for a romantic partner, you need to look outside of your students and employees (regardless of their ages). And if the chemistry is overpowering, hold off until you mutually arrange not to be in that coach/athlete/employer relationship. If you see this happening, have the conversation where you let them know it’s not professional and not cool even if it appears consensual.

[AllHorse]

@vineyridge

I am by nature an iconoclast.

I have come to believe that the vast majority of people simply accept the majority opinion without any analysis of the roots of the opinions. They are infinitely persuadable by well targeted propaganda that is widely spread, especially if 1) the people pushing a particular viewpoint have a personal interest in it–financial, power, self-protection, group advantage, career advantage; or 2) if the propaganda is a simple and easy appeal to primal emotions. The current term for this seems to be sheeple, and sheeple can very easily become mobs with all that mob implies. There are too many instances of this happening today.

I have and do not ever trust the positions that are the most popular and accepted. Just as an example, take my position on slavery. How many of the people who are disgusted by it read the WPA interviews of former slaves; how many of them have bothered to investigate the history of slavery worldwide; how many of them have investigated slavery in the modern world? How many of them understand that abolitionists before the Civil War made use of propaganda techniques? How many of them understand that anti-slavery in the nineteenth century West was premised on Christian beliefs and was not a worldwide phenomenon? Very few people are willing to challenge the “accepted wisdom” on slavery, and those that do are vilified. Human slavery is not a simple issue; if it were, it would not have persisted in human history until 150 years ago throughout the majority of the world.

When I was doing history, my first instinct was not to trust historians but to go to the source records themselves.

I will always challenge “accepted wisdom” because I will never trust it. It’s too easy to simply accept what well run PR campaigns push. I will always try to do my own independent investigation to find nuance. If something is too simple, then it’s likely someone’s propaganda. Always look for the roots and for who will benefit.

Safe Sport is the result of a horrific wrong, but like many human responses to horrific wrongs, it is the easy way out. It lacks nuance.

I also believe that human culture carries with it a huge inertia and that revolutions do not last. I believe that the vast majority of humans are deeply averse to fundamental change, and that cultural inertia will overcome revolution. My time scale is very, very long, and I believe in the pendulum. What comes will go. That which is worth saving because it is fundamentally in accord with human biology and human psychology will persist.

I will always challenge the basis of belief.

That’s an awful lot of words that I’m sure are intended to either inflame or impress but in truth there is absolutely no actual real meaning in any of it.
Finding the only pea in a casserole is easier than trying to get find real sense in all of it.

If you’re trying to say that nothing is ever as simple and straightforward as it seems then you could have done that using only seven words.
However, the practice of adults coercing teens into having sex with them for their own gratification, should never to be allowed, admired or recommended.
That fact is simple and straightforward. Young people are confused enough without adding more to their burden.

[LaurieB]

@skydy

I don’t think that he has as many wealthy benefactors as people imagine. I remember watching (online) the annual USEF/George Morris clinic that was given in Florida and hearing him complain that he had spent the prior evening alone and was unhappy that no one had invited him to dinner.

What goes around comes around.

How many of us here would have wanted to sit through a meal with him (and probably pay for it) even before the Safe Sport ban was announced?

[IPEsq]

Well, marriage used to be for the most part a business transaction between men–the future husband and the woman (or girl)'s father, among the upper levels of society. Also a military move as far as royals go. Some of the age issue had to deal with the lower life expectancy overall of women and the need to produce children. However, I think we have come a long way on the subject of women’s rights. Although socially acceptable for centuries, it was not really ok for young teens to be treated like breeding stock, and thankfully that is accepted now. IOW, coercive sexual relationships are wrong despite the fact that some teens may still be having babies.

[dags]

With all the blind, self-righteous hollerin’ the past 6 weeks 'twas just a matter of time 'til our dirty laundry got hung out for all the world to see, and it has happened. Viney’s post was screen-shot and tweeted by a SafeSport supporting figure skater. And we are officially the vilest in all the land.

[Soaponarope]

@enjoytheride

Slavery “not that bad”

Although I fear it is pointless to address VR’s outrageous comments further as, I suspect, VR is not actually processing others’ responses, I still have to contest one more point. The idea that slavery was/is “not that bad” is not supported by the historical fact that some peoples practiced slavery amongst themselves. This point sidesteps the particular horrors of American slavery that must be owned up to.

Slavery elsewhere was practiced for a variety of reasons; just read Euripedes. In America, however, the institution was linked to racism and only one people were made to bear the yoke. And yes, it was much worse than “not that bad,” just as the sexual abuse of children by people in power over them was and is.

[hoopoe]

While I hate to interject on this particular subject, don’t speak of slavery as a past issue. It is alive in the US, still. Illegal, underground, but still alive.

Bullying and harradmrnt are part of the SS rules. I always thought that would be GM easy downfall, since it was so widely witnessed.

[Rides_Again]

@dags

With all the blind, self-righteous hollerin’ the past 6 weeks 'twas just a matter of time 'til our dirty laundry got hung out for all the world to see, and it has happened. Viney’s post was screen-shot and tweeted by a SafeSport supporting figure skater. And we are officially the vilest in all the land.

Wait, what???

[4LeafCloverFarm]

@Rides Again

Wait, what???

Here you go…

(link removed at request of MapleinMay)

[ladyj79]

@dags

With all the blind, self-righteous hollerin’ the past 6 weeks 'twas just a matter of time 'til our dirty laundry got hung out for all the world to see, and it has happened. Viney’s post was screen-shot and tweeted by a SafeSport supporting figure skater. And we are officially the vilest in all the land.

please please link :lol: it’s my last weekend of summer

[ladyj79]

@4LeafCloverFarm

Here you go…

:lol::lol::lol::lol: oh man those comments are epic! Although I’m shocked at the number of people who previously respected vr’s commentary :lol::eek::no:

[skydy]

Not very surprising that vineyridge’s post has spread. It was World Class in the horrific rankings.

It’s unfortunate that she has sullied reputation of the COTH forums.

[vineyridge]

If you people took the time to read what I have written you will nowhere find that I have said slavery was better for POC or that child marriage was not bad or even that slavery was not bad. I did say the majority of WPA interviews indicate that the conditions of their slavery were not as bad as abolitionist propaganda painted it.

[sixteenhands]

@skydy One out of almost 11,000 members sullied the reputation of COTH? I had no idea Viney has so much power here.

[skydy]

@sixteenhands

@skydy One out of almost 11,000 members sullied the reputation of COTH? I had no idea Viney has so much power here.

Yes, I suppose I am overreacting. Certainly she didn’t ruin it for us, but when those spectacularly awful thoughts of hers made it to other places on the web, it did COTH no good.

Hopefully people will read not only the hideous post, but our responses to it as well.

[skydy]

@vineyridge

If you people took the time to read what I have written you will nowhere find that I have said slavery was better for POC or that child marriage was not bad or even that slavery was not bad. I did say the majority of WPA interviews indicate that the conditions of their slavery were not as bad as abolitionist propaganda painted it.

I have absolutely no intention of clicking on any link that you provide. Your posts have been so repulsive, that I want no further insight into your troubled mind.

[Capall]

Who else misses the ignore feature?

[skydy]

@Capall

Who else misses the ignore feature?

I only used it once. This would definitely be a second time.