George Morris on the SS list

[YankeeDuchess]

@BITSA

My take is that it would be enforceable based on what the arbitration agreement says and if it specifies what rules are to be followed. I just got off the phone for a scheduling setting conference with a JAMS judge, and he consistently referred back to the arbitration agreement the employee signed for procedural constraints and rules to be followed through the discovery process. Not that that is the be all end all, but as a matter of contract, it makes sense to me.

I used that section of the FAA because the complainant is not a party to the SafeSport case (much like the victim in a criminal case isn’t the party).

 Thank you!  I wasn’t inclined to get a law degree to figure this out for myself, or spend hours googling to present myself as a faux lawyer.

[Headsup123]

@Keep it Simple

Did anyone listen to this podcast with Molly Bailey?

https://www.chronofhorse.com/article/the-chronicle-of-the-horse-podcast-episode-1-packy-mcgaughan-and-dr-jenny-susser

She states George Morris was put on the list “Thanks to allegations of misconduct with a minor” was an interesting one. I would have expect her to say “because” not 'thanks". In my opinion, using the word “thanks” give it a sarcastic tone.

Greenie here. Am I the only one who noticed in the COTH podcast (19:10) that Packy is objecting to Safesport banning people who are registered sex offenders without a hearing. Because people get on the registered sex offenders list for a variety of reasons? Perhaps that deserved some probing from COTH, such as 'what reasons do you get on the registered sex offender’s list that should require Safe Sport to investigate a decision made by the criminal justice system".

[Denali6298]

@Headsup123

Greenie here. Am I the only one who noticed in the COTH podcast (19:10) that Packy is objecting to Safesport banning people who are registered sex offenders without a hearing. Because people get on the registered sex offenders list for a variety of reasons? Perhaps that deserved some probing from COTH, such as 'what reasons do you get on the registered sex offender’s list that should require Safe Sport to investigate a decision made by the criminal justice system".

It appears they are buying into Jim Gorgio’s BS about he served his time blah blah blah.

[Headsup123]

But aren’t the ISWG people saying it should be turned over to the criminal justice system? And yet when the criminal justice system renders a verdict they are saying Safe Sport should second guess? I am confused.

[Denali6298]

@Headsup123

But aren’t the ISWG people saying it should be turned over to the criminal justice system? And yet when the criminal justice system renders a verdict they are saying Safe Sport should second guess? I am confused.

They want SS to go away. They don’t want to fix it, they want it gone. Bonnie Nevin actually gives credence to Jim Gorgio. They have aligned themselves with child molesters.

And for some reason actually hold weight with people.

[ynl063w]

@Headsup123

Greenie here. Am I the only one who noticed in the COTH podcast (19:10) that Packy is objecting to Safesport banning people who are registered sex offenders without a hearing. Because people get on the registered sex offenders list for a variety of reasons? Perhaps that deserved some probing from COTH, such as 'what reasons do you get on the registered sex offender’s list that should require Safe Sport to investigate a decision made by the criminal justice system".

I think I can provide an example of what he might have been talking about. When my daughter was in kindergarten, everyone on our street one day got a notice in the mail that a registered sex offender lived on our street. There were no details; we were just told a sex offender lived in our midst. The street was comprised of lots of families with kids, so naturally we were all very concerned. The neighbor sent out his own notice inviting everyone on the street to an open house where we could meet him and ask any questions we might have. It turned out he was a psychiatrist who had gotten into a consensual relationship with an adult female patient. From what I remember, the relationship went south, she reported him to whatever officials she found, and he ended up on the sex offender list for a short period of time. So he presented absolutely no danger to anyone in our neighborhood; he was just a man who made a poor decision regarding a relationship that would not have been a problem if he had not been her psychiatrist. We really appreciated his reaching out to the community in the way that he did.

This is also an example of the fact that sex offenders are not automatically required to be on the “list” for their entire lives as soon as they are found guilty. I think that is determined by the judge as part of the sentencing at the end of the trial.

[Headsup123]

Great example. Correct me if I am mistaken but from everything I have read on this thread and the Rob Gage thread almost every single person who has been banned by Safe Sport based on registered sex offender status involved sexual misconduct with a minor

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

I incorrectly assumed that you as a trial lawyer realize continuances are a thing. You asked what is the time frame, SS lays out 45 days but like any process involving lawyers it can go longer.

I don’t look at SS cheery marketing and base my decision. I look at the actual rules and have emailed them and the coordinator for USEF with my questions. I also have been aware of this problem in our sport for a very long time. Unfortunately it has never been my story to tell.

I also recognize the likes of Nevin for who she is. I also bounce my thoughts off people I’m friends with IRL who practice appellate law and often take pro bono cases for people who couldn’t otherwise afford an attorney and are languishing in jail.

I will take responsibility for making the assumption that people dig as much as I do.

I think our efforts would be better spent tightening up the time frame rules for trainers who “are only available on Mondays” as keep it simple pointed out. They ask for the appeal and then say “oh it’s not a Monday.” GTFO with that.

Her name is Bonnie Navin. Her Facebook page probably still has the statement that over 90% of SafeSport bans have been overturned on appeal.

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

Her name is Bonnie Navin. Her Facebook page probably still has the statement that over 90% of SafeSport bans have been overturned on appeal.

I know who she is. My apologies for the typo. Don’t care enough to correct it.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Headsup123

Great example. Correct me if I am mistaken but from everything I have read on this thread and the Rob Gage thread almost every single person who has been banned by Safe Sport based on registered sex offender status involved sexual misconduct with a minor

Can you get on the registered sex offender registry for anything else, like sexual misconduct with an adult?

[Denali6298]

@YankeeDuchess

Can you get on the registered sex offender registry for anything else, like sexual misconduct with an adult?

Did you not read the post about the psychiatrist? The great example that person was talking about? You literally quoted a post that said “Great example” about an adult who landed on the sex offender list for sexual misconduct with another adult.

[ladyj79]

A psychiatrist can be censured and/or banned from practicing for a having a sexual relationship with his patient (without a court trial).

Can’t really comment on the specific example of why that guy also ended up on the sex offender registry as “jaded lover” is just so commonly offered as a defense I don’t immediately give that much weight.

[Denali6298]

A quick google search reveals its dependent upon state and the actual incident with regards to adults.

[MHM]

@Headsup123

Greenie here. Am I the only one who noticed in the COTH podcast (19:10) that Packy is objecting to Safesport banning people who are registered sex offenders without a hearing. Because people get on the registered sex offenders list for a variety of reasons? Perhaps that deserved some probing from COTH, such as 'what reasons do you get on the registered sex offender’s list that should require Safe Sport to investigate a decision made by the criminal justice system".

My impression of the podcast was that the Chronicle person was basically just giving both parties the chance to talk about the subject at great length. If there were any probing questions or extensive follow ups, I don’t recall them.

Which is fine, as long as everyone recognizes that fact.

[BITSA]

@YankeeDuchess

Can you get on the registered sex offender registry for anything else, like sexual misconduct with an adult?

Yes. When I was a prosecutor a guy was in his hotel room and went out on his balcony and waggled his…twig and berries… at a woman who was working in an office building facing his hotel. She was an adult. He was convicted of indecent exposure and was ordered to register as a sex offender for two years.

[MHM]

@ynl063w

I think I can provide an example of what he might have been talking about. When my daughter was in kindergarten, everyone on our street one day got a notice in the mail that a registered sex offender lived on our street. There were no details; we were just told a sex offender lived in our midst. The street was comprised of lots of families with kids, so naturally we were all very concerned. The neighbor sent out his own notice inviting everyone on the street to an open house where we could meet him and ask any questions we might have. It turned out he was a psychiatrist who had gotten into a consensual relationship with an adult female patient. From what I remember, the relationship went south, she reported him to whatever officials she found, and he ended up on the sex offender list for a short period of time. So he presented absolutely no danger to anyone in our neighborhood; he was just a man who made a poor decision regarding a relationship that would not have been a problem if he had not been her psychiatrist. We really appreciated his reaching out to the community in the way that he did.

This is also an example of the fact that sex offenders are not automatically required to be on the “list” for their entire lives as soon as they are found guilty. I think that is determined by the judge as part of the sentencing at the end of the trial.

Or that was the version he told you, anyway. Did he provide any independent confirmation of the facts?

[eq6375]

The h/j forum needs new threads because this is getting old.

[YankeeDuchess]

@Denali6298

If you have followed along you would know they are a journalist with figure skating ties. No gender has been mentioned.

 I do not know for a fact that FiSk123 is female. It is my inference that FiSk123 is female, mostly based on her writing style. Why, in your mind, does it matter?

 The pronoun “they” is now used for people who consider themselves non-binary.  If you don’t know for a fact that FiSk123 identifies as non-binary, perhaps you should refer to her as he/she/they.

[YankeeDuchess]

When a psychiatrist (that is, MD) has a consensual relationship with an adult patient, I can see that that would lead to losing their license to practice medicine, but is it a violation of the criminal code that can get you on the sex offender’s registry? Honest question.

[dannyboy]

Originally posted by Eq6375

The h/j forum needs new threads because this is getting old.

Actually, I disagree. I check in several times a day and I find it very interesting. May I politely suggest that you start another topic on a subject you find more interesting if this one bores you?