George Morris on the SS list

[ladyj79]

@Groom&Taxi

In the meantime, I am sure that if GHM announced a new set of clinic dates, all the slots would be fill immediately. “The Bad Bully Tour”

100%. People don’t care. Like they’re freaking out at the opportunity they might not be able to give him their money. Give him your money, move him into your home, fly him around the world. His life really will barely change.

[Denali6298]

@bird4416

GM has been quoted as saying he’s had over 10,000 sex partners. If he had sex everyday with a different person, that’s over 27 years of every day a new partner. That’s mind boggling. It’s not hard to believe that some of them weren’t of age or willing. How did he find time for horses?

More than one at a time?

[HLMom]

@vineyridge

There is absolutely no scientific PROOF of the universality of the latter statement at all. Environmental factors have traditionally been thought to have had significant impacts on sexuality.

Here is an article which seems to confirm that both genetic and environmental factors may be at play. If it was all genetic, then we would expect identical twins to always share the same sexual orientation.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/science/gay-men-in-twin-study.html

A new study of twins provides the strongest evidence yet that homosexuality has a genetic basis, researchers say, though they say other factors like social conditioning may be important.

The study, published in the December issue of The Archives of General Psychiatry, adds to evidence that sexual orientation does not result from a maladjustment or moral defect, one author said.

“We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of genetically unrelated brothers,” said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant professor of psychology at Northwestern University

[Denali6298]

@HLMom

Here is an article which seems to confirm that both genetic and environmental factors may be at play. If it was all genetic, then we would expect identical twins to always share the same sexual orientation.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/s…win-study.html

A new study of twins provides the strongest evidence yet that homosexuality has a genetic basis, researchers say, though they say other factors like social conditioning may be important.

The study, published in the December issue of The Archives of General Psychiatry, adds to evidence that sexual orientation does not result from a maladjustment or moral defect, one author said.

“We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of genetically unrelated brothers,” said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant professor of psychology at Northwestern University

It’s genetic. No. It’s not environment. It’s genetic. One is born that way. Never mind that study is 28 years old.

[fargaloo]

I made the mistake of reading the comments under the Chronicle article. :mad:

I don’t know which position is more nauseating: “I like how he rides and teaches; therefore, he must be innocent” or “I like how he rides and teaches; therefore, it doesn’t matter what he did.”

[evilc123]

Sexual orientation is a continuum. Some lean more up, some down, some left, some right, some in the middle; and putting it into binary terms is an archaic societal construct. Next topic.

[lonewolf]

I quickly ventured to some of the Facebook threads and YIKES. Those people are doing a great job of showing exactly why people are reluctant to come forward.

To to the the victims who did, THANK YOU for your courage. You are doing the sport we all love a valuable service in exposing its dark corners, with little to gain and a lot to lose. A lot of people are standing with you, even if our voices aren’t as loud.

on another note, I do think SS could go a long way towards dispelling the rumours by providing a little more evidence. NOT names, salacious details or anything to identify the accusers, but they could provide basic details such as: number of accusers and their age range, approximate date range when the offenses occurred, when their investigation began, how many witnesses they interviewed, the general type of evidence they had (photo? Eyewitness? Written admission?), as well as a few details of how and when the accused was allowed to defend himself, and how he did so.

Even sexual assault trials that are subject to strict publication bans offer this much, so there should be a way to do it without outing a victim.

It’s clear from the online reaction that, for better or worse, people are not willing to put their blind trust in an institution, and take them at their word that there was evidence. Should it be needed? Maybe not. But human nature is what it is.

[Denali6298]

@fargaloo

I made the mistake of reading the comments under the Chronicle article. :mad:

I don’t know which position is more nauseating: “I like how he rides and teaches; therefore, he must be innocent” or “I like how he rides and teaches; therefore, it doesn’t matter what he did.”

Those comments are special.

[LaurieB]

@Tiramit

Good. If it’s true then bring them all down.

Yes, please.

[HLMom]

@Denali6298

It’s genetic. No. It’s not environment. It’s genetic. One is born that way. Never mind that study is 28 years old.

I’m sorry you’re not comfortable with what the science seems to show. Kind of reminds me of the Republicans with global warming. “We don’t like it; therefore it can’t be true!”

Here is a 2019 article that reaches the same conclusion: https://www.timescolonist.com/life/h…ght-1.23644975

And another recent one:
https://www.latimes.com/science/scie…007-story.html

"But experts said the results – as yet unpublished in a peer-reviewed journal – offer preliminary new evidence that a man’s genetic inheritance is only one influence on his sexual orientation. Through the epigenome, the results suggest, some facet of life experience likely also primes a man for same-sex attraction.

Over a person’s lifetime, myriad environmental factors – nutrition, poverty, a mother’s love, education, exposure to toxic chemicals – all help shape the person he will become."

[Texarkana]

What I’ve learned about the appeal process from the fallout after RG is that SafeSport tends to be pretty quick to back down anymore when someone puts up a good fight.

I have no doubt in my mind GM will have this overturned, regardless of the “truth,” given his stature and seemingly endless access to the resources of his supporters.

I hope I’m wrong, not because I want him to be guilty beyond reasonable doubt, but because overturning it would be about the worst thing that could happen in terms of SafeSport earning respect from the equestrian industry. :no: As I’ve mentioned in the RG thread, “permanent ineligibility” from SafeSport has done little to slow down business for an alarming number of parties on the list, with many of those banned still actively involved in programs that train children. Overturning GM’s suspension would further perpetuate misconceptions that SafeSport operates under false information.

[YankeeDuchess]

@HLMom

Here is an article which seems to confirm that both genetic and environmental factors may be at play. If it was all genetic, then we would expect identical twins to always share the same sexual orientation.

https://www.nytimes.com/1991/12/17/s…win-study.html

A new study of twins provides the strongest evidence yet that homosexuality has a genetic basis, researchers say, though they say other factors like social conditioning may be important.

The study, published in the December issue of The Archives of General Psychiatry, adds to evidence that sexual orientation does not result from a maladjustment or moral defect, one author said.

“We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of genetically unrelated brothers,” said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant professor of psychology at Northwestern University

What the heck is a “genetically unrelated brother”?

[HLMom]

@lonewolf

on another note, I do think SS could go a long way towards dispelling the rumours by providing a little more evidence. NOT names, salacious details or anything to identify the accusers, but they could provide basic details such as: number of accusers and their age range, approximate date range when the offenses occurred, when their investigation began, how many witnesses they interviewed, the general type of evidence they had (photo? Eyewitness? Written admission?), as well as a few details of how and when the accused was allowed to defend himself, and how he did so.

Even sexual assault trials that are subject to strict publication bans offer this much, so there should be a way to do it without outing a victim.

It’s clear from the online reaction that, for better or worse, people are not willing to put their blind trust in an institution, and take them at their word that there was evidence. Should it be needed? Maybe not. But human nature is what it is.

Yes, this point was made with respect to the Robert Gage situation as well. It is actually healthy that people are uncomfortable putting blind trust in institutions that conduct most of their work in secret.

I think if SS said, our investigation disclosed 15 underage victims of GM over a timespan of 20 years, the defenders would shut up fairly quickly.

[Denali6298]

@lonewolf

I quickly ventured to some of the Facebook threads and YIKES. Those people are doing a great job of showing exactly why people are reluctant to come forward.

To to the the victims who did, THANK YOU for your courage. You are doing the sport we all love a valuable service in exposing its dark corners, with little to gain and a lot to lose. A lot of people are standing with you, even if our voices aren’t as loud.

on another note, I do think SS could go a long way towards dispelling the rumours by providing a little more evidence. NOT names, salacious details or anything to identify the accused, but they could provide basic details such as: number of accusers and their age range, approximate date range when the offenses occurred, when their investigation began, how many witnesses they interviewed, the general type of evidence they had (photo? Eyewitness? Written admission?), as well as a few details of how and when the accused was allowed to defend himself, and how he did so.

Even sexual assault trials that are subject to strict publication bans offer this much, so there should be a way to do it without outing a victim.

It’s clear from the online reaction that, for better or worse, people are not willing to put their blind trust in an institution, and take them at their word that there was evidence. Should it be needed? Maybe not. But human nature is what it is.

In some of the social media posts concerning Rob Gage, a woman was stating that’s how it was. She then told a story about how she walked in on JW having sex with a junior rider.

The horse world is way to small to give out those details because someone some where will know who and bet, that name will be on social media. People still are commenting the SS killed Rob Gage despite HR holding an informal QA about it. Another person has a photo from 2017 that makes you go WTF? I’ve seen it. That person thankfully sent it to the appropriate people.

[Denali6298]

@HLMom

Yes, this point was made with respect to the Robert Gage situation as well. It is actually healthy that people are uncomfortable putting blind trust in institutions that conduct most of their work in secret.

I think if SS said, our investigation disclosed 15 underage victims of GM over a timespan of 20 years, the defenders would shut up fairly quickly.

No they wouldn’t. They’d say they had an ax to grind or some such nonsense.

[Midge]

@bird4416

GM has been quoted as saying he’s had over 10,000 sex partners. If he had sex everyday with a different person, that’s over 27 years of every day a new partner. That’s mind boggling. It’s not hard to believe that some of them weren’t of age or willing. How did he find time for horses?

Oh,expand your horizons a little. Think of groups.

[evilc123]

@Denali6298

In some of the social media posts concerning Rob Gage, a woman was stating that’s how it was. She then told a story about how she walked in on JW having sex with a junior rider.

The horse world is way to small to give out those details because someone some where will know who and bet, that name will be on social media. People still are commenting the SS killed Rob Gage despite HR holding an informal QA about it. Another person has a photo from 2017 that makes you go WTF? I’ve seen it. That person thankfully sent it to the appropriate people.

Agree with this. The PROCESS (as in, the standard operating procedures, not the process for specific cases) should be completely transparent to the public and stakeholders should maybe even have a say in that process. But after that, we need to trust the process and outcomes as it pertains to evaluating specific cases. Plus…disclosing that there had been more than one victim (as someone else suggested) shouldn’t change the way the public forms their opinions about sexual predators! ffs.

[DarkBayUnicorn]

I think it’s important to remember the incredible, unequaled power GHM has wielded in the sport over several decades. And not just on some local circuit. On the US Olympic team. In multimillion-dollar deals. Even in other countries and their programs. I read about GHM’s ban in the Toronto Star this morning. It’s global sports news.

They say absolute power corrupts absolutely. GHM had the ability to completely destroy, not just aspirations but established careers.

Given that power. Given the absolute tar-and-feather victim shaming job done on AK and HR when it became known that they were among JW and RG’s respective victims…

The person or persons who have come forward against GHM are possibly the bravest in our industry.

I seriously doubt it was done on a whim, or out of spite. Who would risk everything to accuse the man known as “God H Morris” without having something really solid?

Likewise, it has been proven time and again that Safesport does not hand down lifetime bans based on rumors, anonymous single-source allegations.

For those who are, once again, asking to see evidence, to know who the victims are. Think now, about what you are asking for. Think of just how horrific the reaction will be. Think of the abuse those people will have to endure at the hands (and keyboards) of GHM’s supporters. It will be worse than JW or RG to the power of 10.

I think their right to safety trumps your curiosity.

[evilc123]

@Midge

Oh,expand your horizons a little. Think of groups.

Sort of like clinics!

[Denali6298]

@HLMom

I’m sorry you’re not comfortable with what the science seems to show. Kind of reminds me of the Republicans with global warming. “We don’t like it; therefore it can’t be true!”

Here is a 2019 article that reaches the same conclusion: https://www.timescolonist.com/life/health/your-good-health-why-is-one-identical-twin-gay-the-other-straight-1.23644975

So from your Q/A opinion piece you’re telling me male pattern baldness is from the environment? And that’s not a scientific study. Try again.