George Morris on the SS list

[Robbie]

I’m wondering if Practical Horseman’s decision to replace George in their monthly critique column and George’s absence from that big invitational clinic (sorry not a H/J person) had anything to do with TPTB’s knowledge that this was coming. Just a question, not an assumption

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Robbie

I’m wondering if Practical Horseman’s decision to replace George in their monthly critique column and George’s absence from that big invitational clinic (sorry not a H/J person) had anything to do with TPTB’s knowledge that this was coming. Just a question, not an assumption

Not necessarily. Part of it may have been he was getting older, and after a certain point, it’s nice to have a new perspective on the column format.

But as others have remarked, the fact that his column had a reputation for being overly fixated on riders’ appearance (weight, turnout, and tack) had been criticized, and with the Internet, such criticism of his comments were more easily disseminated. Before, during the magazine era (which I remember), people would just have to grouse in private, or, more likely, worry they were being too easily offended by GM without feedback to the contrary.

The Internet has certainly made many terrible things possible, but I do have to say it has enabled lots of people to gather together about this issue and realize they weren’t the only people concerned. If I was only exposed to the opinions of people at my barn, I wouldn’t realize that my own sentiments were more commonly shared in the horse community.

[Bogie]

@fair judy

I think it would be nice if the Chronicle had the same policy on moderating their Facebook presence as we have in the forums. I certainly think that reps knowledgeable and/or working for Safe Sport should have a presence when these issues come out to inform in the Facebook format when these people who have zero idea what the process involves. The best we can do is post ourselves often and with conviction in support of the process. This is the link to the JD public statement on the COTH Facebook page. I’ve commented… as Sarah Pair ( Hochschwender). https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…sport-decision

Yeah, I’ve been posting on the Facebook page (Elizabeth Goldsmith) and getting some flack from the ISWG crowd. It seems particularly difficult for some people to wrap their minds around the idea that someone can have done positive things for the sport but also molested children.

[Mara]

@Virginia Horse Mom

You know what else is SERIOUSLY getting under my skin? The comments that I’ve seen pointing toward the homosexual aspect of it all, and stating that since homosexuality wasn’t as openly accepted in society back in the late 60’s and 70’s, young teenage boys who thought they might be gay commonly had relationships with older gay men, so that the older men could “show them the ropes” about the lifestyle…

STOP SAYING HORRIBLE STUPID THINGS PEOPLE. Teenage boys and girls who are potentially grappling with sexuality issues should be sorting that out, in a non exploitative manner … at their own pace! And they should be sorting out these issues with their own PEERS. Not having sexual relationships with adult coaches who are completely using and abusing them, and then getting thrown away by that adult as soon a fresh new 13 year old student wanders into the barn who needs “extra coaching.”

It’s pretty obvious that the sub-culture with respect to teenaged boys involved in our sport has been REALLY broken for entirely too long. And it’s pretty obvious George Morris is part of that… he hasn’t exactly publicly modeled what a positive, respectful, loving and committed homosexual relationship with a peer looks like… ever… has he?

Thank you for pointing out what needs to be said! Among everything else you said, it’s also horribly insulting to homosexuals and perpetuates backasswards Neanderthal stereotypes of pedophilia as a “gay thing”.

[Alterforme]

I started reading Unrelenting, because I was curious, and wanted to get some insight. In one part of the book I believe GM was about 16 or 17, he writes …

“My close friend & mentor Victor Hugo-Vidal and I were marooned in a motel for three days waiting out the storm. It wasn’t just that Victor influenced me intellectually and in my riding~he also influenced some of my early forays into experimenting with my attraction to other guys.”

I reread this a few times. Just the mention of motel, 3 days & experimentation… very creepy.

perhaps this is a cycle from victim to victim. GM as a young teen was alone traveling & vulnerable himself.

Thank goodness for safe sport & the victim shaming on fb is discussing.

[fair_judy]

@Bogie

Yeah, I’ve been posting (Elizabeth Goldsmith) and getting some flack from the ISWG crowd. It seems particularly difficult for some people to wrap their minds around the idea that someone can have done positive things for the sport but also molested children.

I’ll say one thing for sure. At least one of the loudest and most idiotic women posting on there has a husband who would have his ass in a sling if he got reported.

[skydy]

@fair judy

I’ll say one thing for sure. At least one of the loudest and most idiotic women posting on there has a husband who would have his ass in a sling if he got reported.

Hopefully someone will report him then… The rot needs to go.

[fair_judy]

@Alterforme

I started reading Unrelenting, because I was curious, and wanted to get some insight. In one part of the book I believe GM was about 16 or 17, he writes …

“My close friend & mentor Victor Hugo-Vidal and I were marooned in a motel for three days waiting out the storm. It wasn’t just that Victor influenced me intellectually and in my riding~he also influenced some of my early forays into experimenting with my attraction to other guys.”

I reread this a few times. Just the mention of motel, 3 days & experimentation… very creepy.

perhaps this is a cycle from victim to victim. GM as a young teen was alone traveling & vulnerable himself.

Thank goodness for safe sport & the victim shaming on fb is discussing.

I do want to say that Victor and George were peers and friends. That isn’t victimization in my mind.

[dannyboy]

I knew I shouldn’t have looked at the Chronicle FB article. Some of the comments are pretty sickening. However, I did get one giggle out of it. Someone was protesting that we only had one part of the story. “no one has heard George’s side!” I kind of thought that would be somewhere in the 500 or so pages of Unrelenting.

[Bristol_Bay]

@oneequestrienne

FWIW, There is someone (I think a woman but I could be wrong) posting on Twitter @JudgeThree who is very connected to US Figure skating but who also appears to have been inside the h/j world and knows people in US Gymnastics. They seem to know a lot, supports victims unequivocally but also questions Safesport’s ability to get the job done. I think some if not many here might find this particular Twitter account interesting.

Thanks for mentioning this! I’m following now.

[Bogie]

@Alterforme

I started reading Unrelenting, because I was curious, and wanted to get some insight. In one part of the book I believe GM was about 16 or 17, he writes …

“My close friend & mentor Victor Hugo-Vidal and I were marooned in a motel for three days waiting out the storm. It wasn’t just that Victor influenced me intellectually and in my riding~he also influenced some of my early forays into experimenting with my attraction to other guys.”

I reread this a few times. Just the mention of motel, 3 days & experimentation… very creepy.

perhaps this is a cycle from victim to victim. GM as a young teen was alone traveling & vulnerable himself.

Thank goodness for safe sport & the victim shaming on fb is discussing.

To me the creepiest thing is when he talks about having a younger boyfriend from another culture and mentions that in that country (might have been Brazil), it was common for an older man to have a younger boyfriend and mentor him. I don’t remember the exact words, but since I read Unrelenting after the initial accusation, that really jumped out at me.

[charlieTBD]

@Virginia Horse Mom

You know what else is SERIOUSLY getting under my skin? The comments that I’ve seen pointing toward the homosexual aspect of it all, and stating that since homosexuality wasn’t as openly accepted in society back in the late 60’s and 70’s, young teenage boys who thought they might be gay commonly had relationships with older gay men, so that the older men could “show them the ropes” about the lifestyle…

STOP SAYING HORRIBLE STUPID THINGS PEOPLE. Teenage boys and girls who are potentially grappling with sexuality issues should be sorting that out, in a non exploitative manner … at their own pace! And they should be sorting out these issues with their own PEERS. Not having sexual relationships with adult coaches who are completely using and abusing them, and then getting thrown away by that adult as soon a fresh new 13 year old student wanders into the barn who needs “extra coaching.”

It’s pretty obvious that the sub-culture with respect to teenaged boys involved in our sport has been REALLY broken for entirely too long. And it’s pretty obvious George Morris is part of that… he hasn’t exactly publicly modeled what a positive, respectful, loving and committed homosexual relationship with a peer looks like… ever… has he?

Yes the homophobia in the comments is very disturbing and also very, very sad for a sport with so many young LGBT people to see the elder athletes talk like this about them. On the good side people put their real names so now we all know who they are. If you are a young person, know most people do NOT think that! It is a warped mindset.

Also the attitude that young people should just get over what ever older people choose to do to them I think is from the medieval age, not from the 1970s as the commentators claim. I read today that the average age for someone to tell on their childhood abuse is 54 years of age. I did not know that but I understand. As you get older you care less what others think and you reflect on your life more, you remember things that happened long ago and you consider them more important again.

[mvp]

In other news, I think USEF CEO Bill Moroney’s statement in yesterday’s COTH article, “Yesterday’s ruling is the result of the Center’s process, and we respect their decision," is also pretty bad. The support sounds curt and grudging. Even one more sentence like “The USEF supports efforts to make our sport safe”-- a sort of boiler-plate, bland gesture of support of the broad mission of SafeSport–would have served the organization better.

I mean, c’mon people: We are at that moment in history where we have decided to publicly take a stand against pedophilia and the conventions and institutions (looking at you, Catholic Church) that allow the sexual abuse of children to go on. Is it not really, super clear which side of that change you want to publicly ally yourself with? And what it would have taken, rhetorically, for the USEF to show the public where it stood was really minor. Yet it was not there. And that, apparently, is why we need SafeSport: because this governing body won’t do anything to even attempt to protect its most vulnerable members from exploitation while part of a sport it oversees.

[mvp]

@charlieTBD

This is exactly the kind of comment that makes me roll my eyes. Is he a coach of children in sport? No. Is he a top pro rider which is what the discussion was about? No. How is this comparable? Its not but just mindless attack on anyone who says the culture of the whole sport of hunter seat is a problem in US, not just one man. We all know it is not one man. We all know this culture also contributes to fraud in sales, cheating with drugs, abuse of horses and child. (I edit to say hunters because other horse sports I participate in US are not like a cult).

Why the impulse to attack any person who says the US hero worship of equestrian coaches is a problem? Bad for the sport and bad for the child. Same in children in training for the Olympics on some countries (yes, some in europe in the past, hopefully not anymore). Same with Catholic priesthood. Same culture of strict control and attacking character and reputation of those who speak out. This culture of control and shame drives many responsible parents away as they sense something smells weird and the sport suffers too.

As for the people who say it was ok to sleep with teenagers in the 70s it is never ok for teacher or coach to have sex with a student!! Especially a scholarship student or working student when you control the money. My goodness, who thinks that is ok? Young people should have romantic relationships with peers, not adults in power over them.

For other readers following along on this tangent, charlieTBD is rolling his eyes at another post by Carolinadreamin’ that I can’t quote, “Prince Andrew comes to mind.”

Ok, now that y’all are caught up:

Hold up a sec, charlieTBD. To be fair, the Prince Andrew thing was in response to my asking if Europeans had the kind of excessive hero-worship that the American H/J industry has for Morris (at least), and that’s where someone offered Prince Andrew as an example. So that remark had a basis; it was not gratuitous mud-slinging.

And if you think the British Royal Family is less of an industry and institution than the American Hunter/Jumper industry, I don’t know that to tell you. I think Prince Andrew arguably enjoys at least the same level of impunity and untouchability as Morris.

So, contrary to your opinion, I think Morris and Prince Andrew are, in fact, “comparable” in ways that matter. You claim they are incomparable. I think you will have t defend that claim in order for it to stick and your outrage at the suggestion that there’s any similar kind of cultural rot in Europe does not exist.

[mvp]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Honestly… I’m of the opinion after the RG case during the summer and this one that USEF and Safe Sport need to speak up and SPECIFICALLY address the issue of victim shaming and blaming. Anne K still gets hateful comments on her business related Facebook page. There’s one now I think calling her a liar. I saw nasty comments about HR on Facebook just this week, bringing up stuff from when she was a 15 yr old girl that is really unnecessary and personal, and now with all the REALLY ugly commentary out there about Soresi, that there needs to be more done with respect to protecting victims who do come forward.

They are standing by and doing nothing at present, while victims are in fact being bullied on social media. Everyone has seen the comments. And oddly enough… it’s not happening on these forums or HSD where people also post using anonymous handles… Nope… the majority of the victim bullying is happening on Facebook, publicly, with people’s first and last names tied to the ugliness.

The social media tea action to Safe Sport in the equestrian community is an odd phenomenon, for sure.

And all of that victim blaming keeps demonstrating how much we need SafeSport. Clearly, the sport cannot police itself and those with the least power (victims of sexual abuse who are quite cognizant that they are upsetting a very powerful apple cart), get verbally abused by those with the most power. When, on the other hand, Joe Q. Member takes the side of the kid who says something hinky happened and takes steps to figure that out and Stop It, we won’t need SafeSport anymore. Until then…

[mvp]

@fair judy

I’ll say one thing for sure. At least one of the loudest and most idiotic women posting on there has a husband who would have his ass in a sling if he got reported.

Does that mean that you know of a man who is molesting a minor? if so, you have an obligation to report it.

[rah]

The USEF’s statement was just what I would expect…this is a systemic problem in EVERY part of our industry. USEF is just another example. USEF’s statement, horse show management (TIEC’s statement saying they were standing with GM by leaving his name up until after the appeal),the sponsors (a big horse clothing company told me they were standing with TIEC with their decision to support GM until after the appeal , their response to me a week after I emailed them and Tryon had already taken the name down because ,I think, a bigger sponsor called, was they were “inline” with TIEC and wanted to wait until after the appeal.), the judges, the trainers , the riders, the grooms, the parents…anyone involved in the industry for any amount of time knows this. This is the time to draw that line in the sand and say NO MORE!! Mr Kessler, you owe us more, if you can’t support the members and SafeSport, step aside !

And I will say it again… the victim’s statements about this case should inspire anyone who struggles with life… even the most broken can be healed, and that is a beautiful thing.

[fair_judy]

@mvp

Does that mean that you know of a man who is molesting a minor? if so, you have an obligation to report it.

I would remind you that the statute isn’t solely applied to minors.

[McGurk]

Unless I missed something, Kristin Medall Simpson-Ferguson Hardin’s involvement in this story was 1.) to post publicly that she and family members had been threatened about speaking out 2.) later took down the public post.

I also think (I haven’t researched) that she posted publicly in support of Hilary Ridland during the aftermath of the Rob Gage investigation.

[dannyboy]

@mvp

Does that mean that you know of a man who is molesting a minor? if so, you have an obligation to report it.

Knowing something does not mean that you have enough proof to report it. There’s a fine line between gossip without proof and real hard knowledge. Child molesters don’t generally do it in public.