Eric wasn’t a great guy before cancer, cancer sucks, I support anyone fighting cancer, no one deserves cancer, but seriously he is not a great guy.
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I’m not saying Babick is in any way not personally sympathetic with survivors. IMO the response of USHJA and USEF has been irresponsible. Survivors are being re-victimized.
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Where is the post?
At the risk of possible repeating a question, but not wanting to wade through 189 pages, can someone tell me how on EARTH Safe Sport reinstated a known sexual predator that was criminally charged??? How on earth did the accuser of GM’s end up being reinstated??? I"m sorry, but that is wrong on so many levels. If he is a sexual predator and on the database, he should NOT BE A COACH! I’m sorry for what he endured with and while I have always followed GM’s equitation and training methods(and was taught them myself), I DO NOT condone these actions and he should be punished accordingly. But is it just me, or does anyone else here find it very suspicious that the accuser that gets GM banned for life , then himself gets reinstated a week later??? Something is seriously wrong with this picture, and to me, it looks as if Safe Sport cut a deal with said accuser to get GM banned, and reinstated a known sex offender as a result of said deal. That’s how I see it, but I’m really hoping I’m wrong.
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The talk of one accuser from long ago comes from a release by Phelps Media which is a former student of George Morris. There is NO reason to think it is true, it is propaganda only. Many people involved in the case have said that. And they cannot say more or they can also be suspended by the rules of Safe Sport. The people who cry for details over and over on the internet, using the same words, knowing whay they ask for cannot be released, seem also like propagandists to me. Also the same for people who keep trying to change the subject to the suspected accuser. This is Social Media Marketing 101. People need to open their eyes and stop repeating the false assertions of paid writers. Or following the “suggestions” they get sent from rhe inner circle to say.
I would bet $100 there is somone coordinating posts somewhere or making suggestions to the faithful flock. Its so obvious to anyone who works in politics or advocating. The words are too similar from too many people
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Yeah, I think that’s totally unacceptable. I’m having trouble thinking of a reason that would make it acceptable.
I agree that USEF’s response was most unfortunate. However, Mary Babick cannot speak over USEF.
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If there is one thing that this as cemented in my mind as truth it is that horse professionals have a real problem with knowing that they run a business and should act like they run one.
Criminy those posts!
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Since both of the last two folks (LE and wannabedvm) are real posters, have made more than 1 post on these forums … and the thread has gotten long… I’m going to take your post at face value and not accuse you of being Russian bots, or employees of Phelps Media.
Many on this thread agree that the timing of Soresi’s reinstatement is a head scratcher. HOWEVER…
There was another victim (who is anonymous) who did offer testimony about GM. There also were apparently MANY witnesses who testified at the proceeding.
And then there is the matter of all the statements GM himself made in his own book, Unrelenting. He claimed to have had 10,000 sexual partners. He talked about how relationships between adult men and MUCH younger males were more accepted in other countries, and he admitted to having taking minor students to Studio 54 back in the 70’s. If you know anything about what went on at Studio 54… that’s a bit crazy.
Sooooo… given all that… I am admittedly of the opinion that it was not a hard decision… or even a close call… when it came to Safe Sport banning GM. They are an independent organization which specifically DOESN’T take into account the politics and personalities that dominate different sports. They focus on inappropriate, prohibited behavior.
Given these facts… why would they need to “cut a deal” with Soresi for his testimony against GM?
They didn’t need to. And the idea that Safe Sport has an “agenda” and wanted to “get a big fish”…
I don’t but it. They are overwhelmed with the cases coming their way. Huge names from other sports have already been investigated and taken down. Do some reading about Figure Skating and Gymnastics.
Safe Sport was not looking for extra work to do, and a massive high profile headache.
So I am of the opinion that this was all about poorly thought out timing.
And about Soresi… why do all these people continue to call him a “Predator?” He was convicted well over 10 years ago of possession of 17 images of child porn. But there is not an allegation that he actually physically preyed upon a child. He was sentenced to probation in his case, and was put on the sex offender registry for a limited duration… not for life.
And… oh yeah… USEF was made aware of his status on the registry over a decade ago… but decided to only suspend his judging license at the time. Not his full membership. He was still allowed to attend shows and coach at shows.
I’m not saying any of these aspects of the Soresi case are things Im comfortable with… but I also am not shocked he was reinstated. The other people on the list with lifetime bans seem to all involve “misconduct” with actual human beings… who were underage… and not landed on the lifetime banned list for something like possession of child pornography.
Hope this helps you understand other people’s opinion on this issue - that the whole claim of Soresi “cutting a deal” is unlikely.
But the timing of his reinstatement coinciding with GM’s appeal failing? Yeah - it’s odd and uncomfortable and makes people ask questions.
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Russian bots are not necesaary, a professional agency crafts a message specifically so people will repeat it because is makes sense in some way, if you do not think too much. They seed the message with the faithful followers who repeat it and then others take it up. People who enjoy arguing the devil’s side or wanting to repeat a statement that sounds important jump on board and then a made up “fact” becomes part of the story. Like the single accuser from long ago. Totally made up!
This is not a conspiracy theory, many people are paid money to do this every day. Its a normal career.
So before you repeat an arguement or repeat words you read, think! If something is sold as making common sense, but ia very simple or makes a simple set up of one side agaisnt another with no complications, like a childs book, it is probably made up.
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And I also think it is very strange that someone who had child pornography is allowed back in and would like answers to that if I had children still in the sport but I also think an official answer is needed. It is a good opportunity for lies but people should be more intelligent.
All of these people are at retirement age, yes? I know when you die you are taken off the Safe Sport list, maybe same for full retirement and giving up all professional activities. We do not know.
It was deleted within a few days.
You didn’t need to wade through 189 pages, I offered a plausible explanation only a few pages back. post #3671
And @charlieTBD, I do not think an “official answer” is needed.
I think people are making the assumption that one person’s ban is related to another. And people assuming he was taken off because of some plea deal, don’t understand the process. Safesport is currently working on more cases than these two. The director could have been reviewing the evidence on several cases while arbitrators are hearing other cases. In addition Safesport has several lawyers, so several arbitrations could be conducted simultaneously. Just because the removal of one equestrian person from the list coincided with a permanent ban of the other does not mean the two are associated with each other.
Other equestrians have been on the SS banned list due to a listed on the sex offender registry. They too were removed after an investigation was done.
For those not familiar with Safe Sport. It uses the following when considering a penalty.
“B. Considerations
Factors relevant to determining appropriate sanctions include, without limitation:
- Seriousness of the Violation;
- The Responding Party’s prior history;
- Ages of individuals involved;
- Whether the Responding Party poses an ongoing threat to the safety of others;
- Voluntary disclosure of offense and/or cooperation by the Responding Party;
- Disposition of an investigation by state or federal law authorities;
- Real or perceived impact of incident on the Reporting Party, NGB(s) or USOC;
- Other mitigating and aggravating circumstances.”
If you go through the list of factors -
- I do not believe anyone filed a complaint against Jonathan. He is on the list due to the sex registry listing. He plead guilty to possession of child pornography. I will not say it is even remotely acceptable; but the possession of child porn verses the sexual assault on a child differ immensely.
- Only one incident of possession. He was on probation for 10 years and no further incidents have been reported.
- Ages involved is not relevant because there was no incident report filed.
- This is the question to be answered…
- He pled guilty to possession, he completed his probation, and was cooperating with SS
- The possession charge went through the legal system
- No reporting party, therefore this does not apply
- Unknown (Mitigating circumstance as conditions or happenings which do not excuse or justify criminal conduct, but are considered out of mercy or fairness in deciding the degree of the offense the prosecutor charges or influencing reduction of the penalty upon conviction.) Examples could be genuine remorse, therapy to address the issues, etc.
If there was no incident report against Jonathan and he was on the list because of the sex registry listing, one could assume SafeSport has evaluated the situation and felt it was appropriate to remove his name.
As far as the permanent ban:
- Sexual assault of a minor – what’s worse than this? Murder? Anything else?
- Multiple victims
- 30+ man and 13/14 year old boy.
- Subjective
- Unknown. Perhaps he admits to a sexual relationship but says it was consensual.
- Unknown. Safesport does report all claims to the authorities.
- Real impact - 12 years of therapy, perceived: sexual abuse as a minor can have a lifelong consequences. Impact on the NGB or USOC- There should be no room in any sport for those who sexually assault minors (or adults).
- Denying the seriousness of the offense, the age difference of parties, the relationship of the parties - trainer-/student, if the victim suffered mental injury, multiple occurrences of sexual assault, lack of remorse, amount of harm to Reporting Party, tendency to reoffend, etc.
As I look at the 2 examples, it becomes clear to me why one person is banned and the other is not.
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@Keep it Simple I surely wish something as concrete as this were posted on the nightmare discussion on the COTH Facebook page.
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@fair judy, would it make a difference? I highly doubt it. I hope some people could open their eyes and see there is a great big world beyond equestrian sport. I don’t know the facts in this case, but offer a few possible reason for the reversal of the ban.
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Keep It Simple, thank you for taking the time to explain this! I have learned so much from you and others on here. Did you by chance write something about “acme widgets” to explain SafeSport? I can not remember who wrote it and it didn’t transfer when I copied it.
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Never mind about the acme widgets question, I figured out how to search all of a sudden. : )
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@charlieTBD - thanks for giving an excellent explanation of how the PR industry works it’s magic on social media. Quite enlightening. Clearly happening and being repeated… over and over again.
I was having a little fun with my Russian bots comment. But seriously… stuff like
“There was no DUE PROCESS!”
”It’s only one person’s HERESAY!”
”Why didn’t the ALLEGED victim speak up 50 years ago?!?!”
:sigh:
(sidenote… we desperately need a facepalm emoji type of smilie on COTH).
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@Keep it Simple - well done!
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Thank you. The widget example was excellent.
So many want to place blame someone other than the abuser. They don’t want to accept that their idol may have caused irreparable harm to a child.
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