George Morris on the SS list

[Bogie]

@charlieTBD

I would bet $100 there is somone coordinating posts somewhere or making suggestions to the faithful flock. Its so obvious to anyone who works in politics or advocating. The words are too similar from too many people

Phelps Media did a masterful job of framing the issue very early on. They outed Jonathan Serosi by publishing the time frame and made it seem like he was the only accuser. The people who want to believe in GM seized on this like a dog with a bone.

[poltroon]

The next time someone uses the “hearsay” comment, ask them what is hearsay about the testimony of two direct victims, plus GM’s own book. I doubt any objective observer would need more than that to be convinced of the appropriateness of permanent ineligibility.

[ASB_Stars]

@Virginia Horse Mom

@ASB Stars - given the length of the thread, and the fact that so much has been said at this point, and so much extreme reaction has occurred community wide with each step of this case… many of us are struggling to remember earlier details and aren’t going to go look back for early posts.

So can you reiterate why you confident there are more recent victims?

And about his history - I can’t remember where in the thread it was mentioned, but someone implied GM was probably a victim as a young rider himself. Is that what you are referencing?

The whole notion that this behavior has been going on for decades in our sport, with coaches and young students is very sad. I know the present moment is messy and hard… but it is positive that people are finally attempting to address these issues and change the culture.

I left the industry in the early 90’s. At that time, the stories were unchanged, in fact, I kind of believe that people had become so used to the “george” stories that unless there HAD been someone willing to stand up to him, and point out that they were being abused, it was just accepted. And that is obviously wrong, and what allowed it to keep going.

To accuse GM would have been to acknowledge your own behavior in the incident, and who wants to tell about that, when being gay was still so difficult in society? And, then, as now, going after GM could end your career, if you were hoping for one, and make you a pariah in the industry, even if you were just trying to compete.

It isn’t like you’re going to change his behavior. He’s a predator, and I am sure that, even now, he believes he can do what he wants to. Sending him to jail would require much more recent reports, and victims who were willing to testify. I just can’t see that happening.

[BigMama1]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Since both of the last two folks (LE and wannabedvm) are real posters, have made more than 1 post on these forums … and the thread has gotten long… I’m going to take your post at face value and not accuse you of being Russian bots, or employees of Phelps Media.

Many on this thread agree that the timing of Soresi’s reinstatement is a head scratcher. HOWEVER…

There was another victim (who is anonymous) who did offer testimony about GM. There also were apparently MANY witnesses who testified at the proceeding.

And then there is the matter of all the statements GM himself made in his own book, Unrelenting. He claimed to have had 10,000 sexual partners. He talked about how relationships between adult men and MUCH younger males were more accepted in other countries, and he admitted to having taking minor students to Studio 54 back in the 70’s. If you know anything about what went on at Studio 54… that’s a bit crazy.

Sooooo… given all that… I am admittedly of the opinion that it was not a hard decision… or even a close call… when it came to Safe Sport banning GM. They are an independent organization which specifically DOESN’T take into account the politics and personalities that dominate different sports. They focus on inappropriate, prohibited behavior.

Given these facts… why would they need to “cut a deal” with Soresi for his testimony against GM?

They didn’t need to. And the idea that Safe Sport has an “agenda” and wanted to “get a big fish”…

I don’t but it. They are overwhelmed with the cases coming their way. Huge names from other sports have already been investigated and taken down. Do some reading about Figure Skating and Gymnastics.

Safe Sport was not looking for extra work to do, and a massive high profile headache.

So I am of the opinion that this was all about poorly thought out timing.

And about Soresi… why do all these people continue to call him a “Predator?” He was convicted well over 10 years ago of possession of 17 images of child porn. But there is not an allegation that he actually physically preyed upon a child. He was sentenced to probation in his case, and was put on the sex offender registry for a limited duration… not for life.

And… oh yeah… USEF was made aware of his status on the registry over a decade ago… but decided to only suspend his judging license at the time. Not his full membership. He was still allowed to attend shows and coach at shows.

I’m not saying any of these aspects of the Soresi case are things Im comfortable with… but I also am not shocked he was reinstated. The other people on the list with lifetime bans seem to all involve “misconduct” with actual human beings… who were underage… and not landed on the lifetime banned list for something like possession of child pornography.

Hope this helps you understand other people’s opinion on this issue - that the whole claim of Soresi “cutting a deal” is unlikely.

But the timing of his reinstatement coinciding with GM’s appeal failing? Yeah - it’s odd and uncomfortable and makes people ask questions.

Re the “big fish” theory it’s important to remember that SafeSport represents
ALL Olympic sports and equestrian is far from the highest profile of those. George Morris May indeed be a “big fish” in our world but the sports industry in general and the general public likely have no idea who he is. If the agenda was to “take down” someone influential, SafeSport would have far bigger names from far more prominent sports to choose from. Their agenda is to investigate people who were reported, and to sanction those against whom the evidence is compelling

[LE1]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Since both of the last two folks (LE and wannabedvm) are real posters, have made more than 1 post on these forums … and the thread has gotten long… I’m going to take your post at face value and not accuse you of being Russian bots, or employees of Phelps Media.

Many on this thread agree that the timing of Soresi’s reinstatement is a head scratcher. HOWEVER…

There was another victim (who is anonymous) who did offer testimony about GM. There also were apparently MANY witnesses who testified at the proceeding.

And then there is the matter of all the statements GM himself made in his own book, Unrelenting. He claimed to have had 10,000 sexual partners. He talked about how relationships between adult men and MUCH younger males were more accepted in other countries, and he admitted to having taking minor students to Studio 54 back in the 70’s. If you know anything about what went on at Studio 54… that’s a bit crazy.

Sooooo… given all that… I am admittedly of the opinion that it was not a hard decision… or even a close call… when it came to Safe Sport banning GM. They are an independent organization which specifically DOESN’T take into account the politics and personalities that dominate different sports. They focus on inappropriate, prohibited behavior.

Given these facts… why would they need to “cut a deal” with Soresi for his testimony against GM?

They didn’t need to. And the idea that Safe Sport has an “agenda” and wanted to “get a big fish”…

I don’t but it. They are overwhelmed with the cases coming their way. Huge names from other sports have already been investigated and taken down. Do some reading about Figure Skating and Gymnastics.

Safe Sport was not looking for extra work to do, and a massive high profile headache.

So I am of the opinion that this was all about poorly thought out timing.

And about Soresi… why do all these people continue to call him a “Predator?” He was convicted well over 10 years ago of possession of 17 images of child porn. But there is not an allegation that he actually physically preyed upon a child. He was sentenced to probation in his case, and was put on the sex offender registry for a limited duration… not for life.

And… oh yeah… USEF was made aware of his status on the registry over a decade ago… but decided to only suspend his judging license at the time. Not his full membership. He was still allowed to attend shows and coach at shows.

I’m not saying any of these aspects of the Soresi case are things Im comfortable with… but I also am not shocked he was reinstated. The other people on the list with lifetime bans seem to all involve “misconduct” with actual human beings… who were underage… and not landed on the lifetime banned list for something like possession of child pornography.

Hope this helps you understand other people’s opinion on this issue - that the whole claim of Soresi “cutting a deal” is unlikely.

But the timing of his reinstatement coinciding with GM’s appeal failing? Yeah - it’s odd and uncomfortable and makes people ask questions.

Ok, thank you for clearing up a few things. I did know there was an anonymous accuser as well as Soresi, which is why I believe the ban for George is correct. He committed the crime, he now has to pay for those crimes. I believe the statue of limitations has run out for any criminal proceedings in regards to legal action outside of Safe Sport.

But regarding Soresi’s reinstatement–having child porn images, I would be very guarded that this is something he is battling with and could escalate. 10 years ago doesn’t mean he isn’t cured. The fact he was found with such images and is on the database…I’m sorry, I still think it is wrong to reinstate him as a coach. If Safe Sport’s job is to protect chidren from predators, I would think that this would be one of them. Just my feeling on this matter.

While I was trained in the style of Mr Morris and followed his training methods and enjoyed watching his clinics online from Florida, this is a lesson learned that no one is beyond reproach. To even brag about it in his book also seems very arrogant—that he felt he was beyond punishment is beyond me. The old saying ‘it was a different time’ is a cop out. Any respectable adult and coach would darn well know you DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS!!! And you DO NOT SLEEP WITH MINORS! End of discussion.

To this day, as I learn from different coaching classes I take, about 10 years ago it was advised to ALL coaches that you should ask a rider if you could touch their body to correct it for riding purposes. Regardless of gender or age, Since then, I always, always ask riders if I can touch their leg—given that some corrections could be misunderstood. It makes total sense and I will continue to do this. I even had a 70 year old client who messaged me after a lesson, thanking me for asking her.

We have to learn as we go and one thing is, I want any student/rider to know my goal is to teach them and educate them about horses and riding. That’s IT!

[LE1]

@BigMama1

Re the “big fish” theory it’s important to remember that SafeSport represents
ALL Olympic sports and equestrian is far from the highest profile of those. George Morris May indeed be a “big fish” in our world but the sports industry in general and the general public likely have no idea who he is. If the agenda was to “take down” someone influential, SafeSport would have far bigger names from far more prominent sports to choose from. Their agenda is to investigate people who were reported, and to sanction those against whom the evidence is compelling

It’s funny because after I wrote my post, I realized Safe Sport is ALL sports, not just equestrian. It just felt that the timing of George’s ban and Soresi’s reinstatement was just…too suspicious. That and I’ve been watching way too much Law and Order SVU.

[Mara]

@LE

Ok, thank you for clearing up a few things. I did know there was an anonymous accuser as well as Soresi, which is why I believe the ban for George is correct. He committed the crime, he now has to pay for those crimes. I believe the statue of limitations has run out for any criminal proceedings in regards to legal action outside of Safe Sport.

But regarding Soresi’s reinstatement–having child porn images, I would be very guarded that this is something he is battling with and could escalate. 10 years ago doesn’t mean he isn’t cured. The fact he was found with such images and is on the database…I’m sorry, I still think it is wrong to reinstate him as a coach. If Safe Sport’s job is to protect chidren from predators, I would think that this would be one of them. Just my feeling on this matter.

While I was trained in the style of Mr Morris and followed his training methods and enjoyed watching his clinics online from Florida, this is a lesson learned that no one is beyond reproach. To even brag about it in his book also seems very arrogant—that he felt he was beyond punishment is beyond me. The old saying ‘it was a different time’ is a cop out. Any respectable adult and coach would darn well know you DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS!!! And you DO NOT SLEEP WITH MINORS! End of discussion.

To this day, as I learn from different coaching classes I take, about 10 years ago it was advised to ALL coaches that you should ask a rider if you could touch their body to correct it for riding purposes. Regardless of gender or age, Since then, I always, always ask riders if I can touch their leg—given that some corrections could be misunderstood. It makes total sense and I will continue to do this. I even had a 70 year old client who messaged me after a lesson, thanking me for asking her.

We have to learn as we go and one thing is, I want any student/rider to know my goal is to teach them and educate them about horses and riding. That’s IT!

Seriously…I think “hands off the kids” has been generally understood by MOST of the general populace for decades at least.

If GM were their kids’ high school English teacher - would these defenders still be as vociferous?

Interesting too that some of the same people throwing tantrums over the new FEI helmet rules are also loudly slanging SafeSport.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@LE

Ok, thank you for clearing up a few things. I did know there was an anonymous accuser as well as Soresi, which is why I believe the ban for George is correct. He committed the crime, he now has to pay for those crimes. I believe the statue of limitations has run out for any criminal proceedings in regards to legal action outside of Safe Sport.

But regarding Soresi’s reinstatement–having child porn images, I would be very guarded that this is something he is battling with and could escalate. 10 years ago doesn’t mean he isn’t cured. The fact he was found with such images and is on the database…I’m sorry, I still think it is wrong to reinstate him as a coach. If Safe Sport’s job is to protect chidren from predators, I would think that this would be one of them. Just my feeling on this matter.

While I was trained in the style of Mr Morris and followed his training methods and enjoyed watching his clinics online from Florida, this is a lesson learned that no one is beyond reproach. To even brag about it in his book also seems very arrogant—that he felt he was beyond punishment is beyond me. The old saying ‘it was a different time’ is a cop out. Any respectable adult and coach would darn well know you DO NOT SLEEP WITH YOUR STUDENTS!!! And you DO NOT SLEEP WITH MINORS! End of discussion.

Thanks for a thoughtful response, and not taking my initial accusations that you might be a Phelps Media plant or a Russian bot personally. It was juvenile of me. I was letting off steam. This has been a long thread and the comments on Facebook this week have made me want to gouge my eyeballs out with a spoon.

So… I will admit to having not spent time googling and checking it… but why do you keep on saying Soresi is still on the sex offender registry? He was originally convicted in the State of New York back in 2005 or 2007, for possession of child porn. He plead guilty and cooperated. ANOTHER person on the Safe Sport list, Tom Navarro, was also originally convicted in the State of New York. For a 3rd degree felony. Involving sodomy. It apparently involved an underaged girl. He also plead guilty, and also got probation. He also went on the sex offender registry.

But people in the State of New York routinely come OFF the sex offender registry after a specific duration. Tom Navarro did. After ten years. Then… he appealed to the State of Virginia to remove him from their registry, and he won. After he came off the registry in NY, VA removed him as well.

So are you sure that Soresi is still listed in the Sex Offender database and actively required to register as a Sex offender? In NY or elsewhere? I’m not so sure about that.

Believe me… I do understand your discomfort with the child porn. I have opinions about it, and wouldn’t hire anyone to coach my kids who had, in fact, sought out child porn and been convicted for having it on a computer. But we don’t know the details of his conviction. 17 images is a truly odd finding… EXTREMELY atypical for such cases. Normally, people with these issues are found to have 100’s or 1000’a of images. And law enforcement did investigate this, they did have his computer and did examine it, Soresi did cooperate and eventually plead guilty, and the finding was… 16 images and 1 video. We don’t know details beyond that… and I do t want to.

But honestly, given that law enforcement AND Safe Sport have investigated this, it was over 10 years ago, Soresi’s cooperated each time, plead guilty, got counseling, and served the duration of his entire plea without re-offending…

And oh yeah - is a victim of sexual abuse as a minor himself…

Honestly… I am not outraged at all that Safe Sport re-instated him. He’s attended years of counseling. If he was still a threat to children, and it’s unknown that he ever was a threat to children… it’s only known he was in possession of child porn… the licensed counselor who treated him would have informed authorities. After all… he was on probation for 10 years.

But again… would I personally jump right up and hire him to coach my kids? Probably not. But I think a lot of people, including law enforcement, professional licensed therapists, probation officers, and Safe Sport investigators have all looked st him and his crime and the evidence and his case in detail… and he has served out the terms of his plea deal. And apparently not the-offended. And at some point… we have to go forward.

Safe Sport looked at the other guy I mentioned. The one who plead guilty of 3rd degree sodomy. He’s also served out his plea deal and been taken off the sex offender registry. He also attempted to appeal Safe Sport’s ban. But they made a different ruling in that case and denied his appeal and he is still banned for life.

What that tells me is that they are looking at each case in front of them closely and trying to render the best decisions they can. That’s all I’m asking for.

No system will ever be perfect. Our justice system CERTAINLY has its share of challenges. That’s life. But honestly… I think it’s kind of odd to look at the Soresi case and see evidence of flaws in Safe Sport. I see evidence that Safe Sport considered lots of factual information, and reinstated someone who has demonstrated that they take these issues seriously and is making a good faith, thorough, responsible effort to be a good member of society.

I hope that makes sense.

[Living_In_The_Sticks]

I have been reading this thread from the beginning & just made an account now.

I can’t understand how people can say they stand with a child molester. I started riding H/J as a kid & ended up in my 20’s at a barn that did a few A shows a year. I heard the rumors & never met the man.

The comments on Facebook are disgusting. My heart breaks for the victims. I’m really disappointed in how some equestrians are acting between GM & RG being permanently banned.

[Midge]

@LE

But regarding Soresi’s reinstatement–having child porn images, I would be very guarded that this is something he is battling with and could escalate. 10 years ago doesn’t mean he isn’t cured. The fact he was found with such images and is on the database…I’m sorry, I still think it is wrong to reinstate him as a coach. If Safe Sport’s job is to protect chidren from predators, I would think that this would be one of them. Just my feeling on this matter.

He had not been reinstated. He had been dropped from the safe sport list. It means he can apply for usef membership. It doesn’t mean they have to take him.

[wannabedvm]

[quote="“Midge,post:4000,topic:460643”]

@LE

But regarding Soresi’s reinstatement–having child porn images, I would be very guarded that this is something he is battling with and could escalate. 10 years ago doesn’t mean he isn’t cured. The fact he was found with such images and is on the database…I’m sorry, I still think it is wrong to reinstate him as a coach. If Safe Sport’s job is to protect chidren from predators, I would think that this would be one of them. Just my feeling on this matter.
QUOTE]

He had not been reinstated. He had been dropped from the safe sport list. It means he can apply for usef membership. It doesn’t mean they have to take him.

Is it even possible for them to “not take” someone? Do t you just apply, pay, and boom—you have a membership?

[Tackpud]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Thanks for a thoughtful response, and not taking my initial accusations that you might be a Phelps Media plant or a Russian bot personally. It was juvenile of me. I was letting off steam. This has been a long thread and the comments on Facebook this week have made me want to gouge my eyeballs out with a spoon.

So… I will admit to having not spent time googling and checking it… but why do you keep on saying Soresi is still on the sex offender registry? He was originally convicted in the State of New York back in 2005 or 2007, for possession of child porn. He plead guilty and cooperated. ANOTHER person on the Safe Sport list, Tom Navarro, was also originally convicted in the State of New York. For a 3rd degree felony. Involving sodomy. It apparently involved an underaged girl. He also plead guilty, and also got probation. He also went on the sex offender registry.

But people in the State of New York routinely come OFF the sex offender registry after a specific duration. Tom Navarro did. After ten years. Then… he appealed to the State of Virginia to remove him from their registry, and he won. After he came off the registry in NY, VA removed him as well.

So are you sure that Soresi is still listed in the Sex Offender database and actively required to register as a Sex offender? In NY or elsewhere? I’m not so sure about that.

Believe me… I do understand your discomfort with the child porn. I have opinions about it, and wouldn’t hire anyone to coach my kids who had, in fact, sought out child porn and been convicted for having it on a computer. But we don’t know the details of his conviction. 17 images is a truly odd finding… EXTREMELY atypical for such cases. Normally, people with these issues are found to have 100’s or 1000’a of images. And law enforcement did investigate this, they did have his computer and did examine it, Soresi did cooperate and eventually plead guilty, and the finding was… 16 images and 1 video. We don’t know details beyond that… and I do t want to.

But honestly, given that law enforcement AND Safe Sport have investigated this, it was over 10 years ago, Soresi’s cooperated each time, plead guilty, got counseling, and served the duration of his entire plea without re-offending…

And oh yeah - is a victim of sexual abuse as a minor himself…

Honestly… I am not outraged at all that Safe Sport re-instated him. He’s attended years of counseling. If he was still a threat to children, and it’s unknown that he ever was a threat to children… it’s only known he was in possession of child porn… the licensed counselor who treated him would have informed authorities. After all… he was on probation for 10 years.

But again… would I personally jump right up and hire him to coach my kids? Probably not. But I think a lot of people, including law enforcement, professional licensed therapists, probation officers, and Safe Sport investigators have all looked st him and his crime and the evidence and his case in detail… and he has served out the terms of his plea deal. And apparently not the-offended. And at some point… we have to go forward.

Safe Sport looked at the other guy I mentioned. The one who plead guilty of 3rd degree sodomy. He’s also served out his plea deal and been taken off the sex offender registry. He also attempted to appeal Safe Sport’s ban. But they made a different ruling in that case and denied his appeal and he is still banned for life.

What that tells me is that they are looking at each case in front of them closely and trying to render the best decisions they can. That’s all I’m asking for.

No system will ever be perfect. Our justice system CERTAINLY has its share of challenges. That’s life. But honestly… I think it’s kind of odd to look at the Soresi case and see evidence of flaws in Safe Sport. I see evidence that Safe Sport considered lots of factual information, and reinstated someone who has demonstrated that they take these issues seriously and is making a good faith, thorough, responsible effort to be a good member of society.

I hope that makes sense.

I believe the investigation into Mr. Soresi came after his computer was stolen and when it was recovered he took it to an OfficeMax type store to have the hard drive cleaned in case it had been infected with any viruses. The store found the pictures and contacted law enforcement as they are required to do. Since he could not prove when the pictures had been put on the computer, he plead guilty and received the sentence you mention. He’s done his time and has been deemed to be eligible according to SS. He is not currently a USEF member and I have no idea if he is planning on attempting to rejoin.

[Tackpud]

[quote="“wannabedvm,post:4001,topic:460643”]

@Midge

Is it even possible for them to “not take” someone? Do t you just apply, pay, and boom—you have a membership?

No - if you are on the permanent suspension list of USEF you have to re-apply for membership through different channels. PV tried after his 10 (?) years were up and didn’t get reinstated.

[wannabedvm]

[quote="“Tackpud,post:4003,topic:460643”]

@wannabedvm

No - if you are on the permanent suspension list of USEF you have to re-apply for membership through different channels. PV tried after his 10 (?) years were up and didn’t get reinstated.

Right, but Soresi isn’t on that list…

[charlieTBD]

@Tackpud

I believe the investigation into Mr. Soresi came after his computer was stolen and when it was recovered he took it to an OfficeMax type store to have the hard drive cleaned in case it had been infected with any viruses. The store found the pictures and contacted law enforcement as they are required to do. Since he could not prove when the pictures had been put on the computer, he plead guilty and received the sentence you mention. He’s done his time and has been deemed to be eligible according to SS. He is not currently a USEF member and I have no idea if he is planning on attempting to rejoin.

Well that is quite a different story and it now makes more sense. Thank you for the info.

[MHM]

@Tackpud

I believe the investigation into Mr. Soresi came after his computer was stolen and when it was recovered he took it to an OfficeMax type store to have the hard drive cleaned in case it had been infected with any viruses. The store found the pictures and contacted law enforcement as they are required to do.

I don’t remember the part about the computer being stolen. Was that published somewhere?

[LexInVA]

@Tackpud

I believe the investigation into Mr. Soresi came after his computer was stolen and when it was recovered he took it to an OfficeMax type store to have the hard drive cleaned in case it had been infected with any viruses. The store found the pictures and contacted law enforcement as they are required to do. Since he could not prove when the pictures had been put on the computer, he plead guilty and received the sentence you mention. He’s done his time and has been deemed to be eligible according to SS. He is not currently a USEF member and I have no idea if he is planning on attempting to rejoin.

No information was ever released by the police or made available to the news outlets in regards to why he brought his laptop to Circuit City for servicing or what procedures were being performed. Unlike most CP incidents, his case was over and done with in short order, almost like someone with the power to pull strings wanted it out of the public eye and buried ASAP. His lawyer - a public defender - apparently made a very simplistic statement to the media that did not say anything other than “He brought his laptop in for repair and they found the pornography.” Even though it was back in 2006/2007, what little there is out there is pretty much nothing and it hardly shows up if you go looking for any sort of information in search engines and news sites. JS did say something (recently) along the lines of his having suffered abuse at the hands of GM and friends did not absolve him of his guilt, seemingly in regards to the CP, though I can’t shake the notion that GM might have also used him as a catspaw to pull others into his expansive web of abuse and he was really talking about that.

[oneequestrienne]

@Virginia Horse Mom

@oneequestrienne - mvp got confused, and is apparently going to go back and edit their post.

I brought up Kristin because she WAS such a notable person earlier in the summer, in terms of how she spoke out and stood up in the wake of the RG case, and then when GM was banned. I admire the hell out of some of what she dared to say.

I incorrectly assumed she took some of her public FB posts from back then down because of pressure from the SUBSTANTIAL community out West that has mobilized against Safe Sport (it seems to me like a lot of this is about SH being such a popular figure in that circle)

I’m glad to read that she just took the posts down after a few weeks, because that’s how she generally manages her social media. It’s probably been a stressful two years for her though, between having to testify in the RG matter, and then having to deal with intense pressure and threats to family in relation to the GM investigation. I hope she’s doing well though, and kicking on, and going to continue to be a positive example of how to confront tough issues in our sport going forward. We all need to see more of that.

I saw MVP’s explanation which is why I deleted my post quoting her. Kristin is doing just fine, in fact, she is doing very well. She has always been one to speak her mind without worrying about what other people think. I have been around her and her fabulous kids. They live life to the fullest with no regrets.

[McGurk]

@mvp and @oneequestrienne

I went back and edited my post as well. Thanks.

[fair_judy]

I just wanted to say that there are some excellent comments recently by a participant on the Fbook COTH page. There is also now a lunatic making this into a political litmus test. I’ve sent a PM to the Fbook page asking them to responsibly monitor the comments. I can deal with the complete lack
of information and empathy by participants but this is going to another level. We have excellent moderators here… why does COTH not see a need for the same on Fbook? If someone lights a fire they have to stand by with a hose. WHERE IS THE REASON?