The fake ID situation is extremely unlikely to happen in real life, but I don’t like the insinuation that adults who have consensual sex with other adults should be lumped in with predators simply because said sex occurred outside of a traditional marriage or dating relationship.
It’s totally fine if you think that person isn’t someone you want your kid around because of their lack of “morals,” but SafeSport shouldn’t be getting involved in anything that goes on between consenting adults.
This attitude is part of the problem, not part of the solution.
Just saying.
How so? Saying that kids can do no wrong? Sorry folks, that’s basically giving them free rein to do anything, and nope, doesn’t wash with me. If a young girl/boy choose to miss lead adults with false information, how is anyone to know? Are people now going to have to ask for ID? It’s fake, so suddenly they have to be psychic? Kids need to realize that actions have consequences, and if you want to let kids break laws and not be punished, YOU are part of the problem, because they will never learn. Something in today’s parenting I’m seeing. Let kids do what they want–well, guess what? They grow into adults who do what they want and that’s not always the case. If kids are responsible enough to be an athlete and compete abroad, they better show responsibility of showing that they are able to follow the rules. I’m not thinking just in regards to someone having sex with someone underage, I’m thinking of a bar that serves them alcohol etc, etc. And not necessarily a trainer, but anyone who is there to enjoy a good time. Regardless of the adult’s job, if they come across a young rider who is pretending to be 21, but is in fact only 15 or 16, how is that fair to a 21 yr old at a bar to have fun and meet like aged people?
This is in regards to the person who posted the hypothetical question btw. The odds of that happening are slim to none—a trainer in a bar hooking up with an under age rider with a fake ID would be a million to one. But what I am getting at is that kids who break the rules, should understand there are consequences.
Fact check, once again.
He. Is. Not. A. USEF. Judge. Not even a member at this time.
Then the an article I read got it wrong because they said he was judging at horse shows for years. He is in good standing with the USEF. I’d like to know how, but I won’t go there. Apparently in everyone’s eyes, he is innocent. I wonder how the kids of the photos he had on his laptop feel about that? 
George Morris did get an independent arbitrator as did Jonathon Soresi. The independent arbitrator upheld GM’s ban.
Mr. Soresi’s case is completely independent from Mr. Morris’ case. The arbitrator found he was not currently a risk to the sport and overturned his suspension from the sport.
Mr. Morris did have independent arbitration that upheld his lifetime ban from the sport. The arbitrator found that the evidence that SS put forth was enough to warrant that sentence.
I don’t see how a teenager using a fake ID in a bar off the show grounds is any of SS’s business. SS has more than enough on its plate dealing the original set of code violations.
You are clearly not following along, as GM DID have independent arbitration, which upheld the ban. Safe Sport cannot ban someone without a complaint, unless they are criminally charged. JS served his sentence and was ‘unbanned’, because there is no complainant. How do you know there are no current GM victims?
I am having a hard time though with JS getting an independent arbitrator and they allowed his reinstatement, while GM was not given an independent arbitrator. That is more what I am frustrated with. The fact that JS has a record, is still on a registry in Florida----and is able to judge at USEF sanctioned shows—that is a lawsuit in the making if they ever find indiscretion. I think I would have had many provisos, one of which that JS could only judge adults and teach adults upon his reinstatement. I think that would have been far better.
You need to follow the news. Once again GM did have independent arbitration. JS’s listing on Florida was secondary and not part of his charge.
I will state again, I support Safe Sport, but feel that they need to be involved with law enforcement. There needs to be clear directives, clear rules (because apparently some people think they are above the rules), and clear punishments for those who commit crimes, and sadly, that includes the athletes. Specifically if riders choose to use fake IDs to gain access to bars, and then sleep with people , creating serious legal ramifications for all involved (remember too, the bar would also be liable for serving a minor). Athletes needs to realize they hold a responsibility too, regardless of their age. Lying is wrong, and they know that. Having a fake ID creates many legal ramifications on everyone else, it’s about time it also makes those holding them more than just a fine. I think a month long ban if any athlete is found using a fake ID, from their sport would be a sufficient punishment and deter them from making that choice.
You should read the Safe Sport website on what they do. Most of your questions are answered there. Really, you need to go to the direct source for your information. ISWG is not it.
I’ll say I’m picking up what you’re putting down. I think 14+ is plenty old enough to understand that if you are doing literally illegal things… you don’t get to show for a specified amount of time. I think it’s outside the scope of Safe Sport though- which is protecting minors from abuse by adults? Maybe better added to a “USEF ethics guidelines” prescription.
For an example, in a polocrosse club here in the UK, a kid was caught driving a vehicle underage. He was banned from playing for 60 days.
Law enforcement is the proper way to go with the kid with the fake ID. They broke the law. They did not violate Safe Sport code.
He. Is. Not. A. USEF. Member. Ergo, he is also not a USEF judge.
Are you a USEF member? If so, it’s very easy to check on the USEF website to see if someone is a member or judge. Because, you know… facts.
I agree with you that kids need to learn that their actions have consequences. It does not logically follow, however, that the legal consequences are exactly the same as those for an adult.
When it comes to sex between an adult and a minor under the AOC, the law and SS appropriately place the burden on the adult to shut things down. Proving that a 17 year old had fake ID showing he was 21 I’m guessing would buy some leniency, but I doubt that it is exculpatory in statutory rape cases.
Suppose it’s fortunate for all involved that I’m not and never will be a parent 
But if I were, I think I’d rather be a permissive parent than be someone frantically grasping at hypothetical straws to blame a child victim for an adult’s wrong-doing. Because that’s what you’re doing, under the guise of “but I support Safe Sport” while repeatedly saying talking points that are straight from the mouths/keyboards of people who are deliberately undermining SS.
Your hypothetical situation doesn’t mean there are no hypothetical consequences for this hypothetical child using a fake ID. It just means that that is outside of Safe Sport’s jurisdiction - which I’d think would please the ISWG crowd, given that they already think that SS is overstepping.
I don’t really see a difference in this attitude and the people proclaiming that girls are throwing themselves at their adult trainers like wanton harlots and who could expect a man to be able to keep his hands off them in that scenario.
I have read Nabokov’s novel. I also read it from my own perspective-- as a woman who had been a girl and also a survivor of sexual abuse. So whether or not I’m a special kind of reader, I don’t know. But it seemed patently obvious to me that Lolita was powerless and exploited rather than the cause of her sexual relationship with Humbert.
So, yes, I use the term “Lolita” as a good abbreviation that so many other people do. That’s on purpose. But, again, and from my perspective as described above, but also as an average, moral person, I never imagined that there are folks out there who need the schooling you give: folks who believe a 12-year-old orphan seduced a middle-aged married guy.
I supposed, then, that you think I need schooling because so many people read the Lolita character uncritically and take for granted that that kind of powerful “nymphet” exist. Am I in a very small, very enlightened minority? Really?
I was under the impression that fake ID’s are common and frequent in drinking establishments.
But in any case, that is the scenario as DC’s letter to the Congressman put it, as I read it in any case. It’s interesting what response would be correct and appropriate from SafeSport, which was DC’s question. And also what people think about the question itself and about DC for asking that particular question. That is, a young professional having sex with someone he thinks is an adult, but is in fact a minor.
I read into that question that DC thinks this sort of situation is the real source of some of the old complaints to SS, which is telling, imo.
The question did not contemplate the real situations that have be the subject of the complaints. That is, long-term and repeated abuse of minors by offenders who have groomed the victims, the parents and the entire local horse community. DC and her supporters just won’t even acknowledge those scenarios.
I speculate that they would like to turn the conversation away from the most egregious cases and toward these one-off types of incidents that have a muddy back story. Even though to date such situations haven’t been part of any SafeSport action.
Sorry, I wasn’t clear that was how you meant your use of that term, and also most of my remarks were meant more generally and I didn’t make that clear.
@LE, GM also had an independent arbitration and his permanent ban was upheld. No, you’re right, we don’t get to know who his most recent victims are. The mandate of Safe Sport does not include spreading the salacious details of sex abuse cases nor sharing victims names in order that they might experience harassment and retaliation.
I’m glad that you take such a dim view of child pornography, but I would argue that a serial predator who has had multiple abusive sexual relationships with children over decades of time is probably a little bit more of threat than a person who was found to have ~10 pieces of child pornography on their computer over 10 years ago and who has otherwise not been accused of molestation or abuse.
You are certainly not the only person who thinks that having a child pornography possession charge from over a decade ago should result in a lifetime ban. I would recommend reading the “Considerations” section of the Safe Sport Code because I think that gives some insight as to why an arbitrator may have chosen to overturn JS’ ban. (See the link just below.)
Also, Safe Sport ABSOLUTELY works with law enforcement. Safe Sport has many clear directives and rules which apply equally to both trainers and athletes. Of course anyone in a position of power (such as a trainer) does have the added responsibility of not abusing their position. You can read about these policies and procedures in detail at:
https://uscenterforsafesport.org
It is well known that law enforcement alone has been inadequate in protecting minor athletes from sexual abuse. Also, there are plenty of Safe Sport violations that are not illegal acts. Personally I’m glad that our standards for trainers and athletes are higher than “just don’t go to jail.”
Regarding your comments about minors who “misbehave” I really have to disagree. Many in the anti-Safe Sport movement (Athletes for Equity, etc.) keep trying to frame minor aged victims as somehow responsible for their own sexual abuse. That’s just not how it works. No matter what a minor child does, it is STILL an adult’s responsibility NOT to sexually abuse them. I don’t care if a child has five fake IDs, is dressed like a prostitute, and has been drinking in a bar, it is STILL not okay to have sex with them.
I agree that children using fake IDs should be punished, but that duty falls to law enforcement and their parents.
If you’re in a place where you can listen to this please do!
You = everyone
By submitting your email, you agree to our Terms of Service and Privacy Policy. You may also receive promotional emails from The Chronicle of the Horse. You can opt out at any time.
For Customers
Company
Terms of Use
