Yep. It’s nauseating for us, but will be fascinating for the mainstream press.
I hope all of the people complaining about safe sport will be happy to see their opinions repeated in the mainstream press. Because they will be. What you put on the internet doesn’t go away.
And I have some waterfront property in Arizona I’d like to sell ya. What Valliere was doing was not completely unknown before the story broke with Donna’s taped call. There were already insurance companies that wouldn’t do business with him. It seems unlikely that someone who rode for him wouldn’t have any idea what was going on, plus that whole crew was snow blind, if you know what I mean.
This made me laugh because it’s just so insane. If this doesn’t sum up everything wrong in the horse industry I don’t know what does.
So…I actually discussed Safesport with two friends who coach minors in completely unrelated sports - synchronized swimming and high school cross country.
Friend who coaches synchro falls in the camp of “like what Safesport is trying to achieve, but there are major problems” - she cited concerns that she was not allowed in the locker room if any of her girls were (problematic if the locker room is where the bathroom is, or the only way to enter/exit the pool). She also said that there was frustration on her team because the girls who turned 18 were expected to unfriend their younger friends on social media. So that’s an example of frustrations with Safesport outside of equestrian (we didn’t talk about whether there had been any allegations of misconduct in her sport, and how those were viewed).
Friend who coaches cross country said that she was not required to be a member of USATF (the equivalent of USEF for running) in order to coach high school cross country, and Safesport hadn’t really come up as a topic. This echoed what I’ve observed elsewhere in running - many who compete and coach in that sport are outside of USATF, as you don’t really need to be a member of USATF in order to compete until you are at a certain level (and pretty much everyone at that level is over 18). I have seen far less announcements of Safesport actions from USATF then from USEF, but I think that’s in part because USATF membership isn’t as universal in running as USEF membership is in riding.
I’m guessing that running is not the only sport where you can be very involved in the sport without being a member of the national governing body, and thus subject to Safesport. So that may be a reason behind not all sports having the same uproar about Safesport.
I have been editing my ‘like and respect’ list for months.
Why do you think the only accusation is from 50 years ago?
You know doctors and lawyers and school teachers and lose their licenses for things that will “not stand up in court”, right? But they break the rules the organizations want their membership to uphold.
What I have bolded is an example of how people in other sports also have misunderstandings about the policies. Because SafeSport does not say athletes should unfollow minor friends on social media when they turn 18. Right in the training, they reference that three (?) year age gap where overlap between “adult” and “minor” athletes is expected and not of concern in a positive situation. The MAAP policies recommend athletes over 18 only need to adhere to these rules when interacting with children under 14, which I understand can be challenging on an all-ages team, but certainly not unrealistic.
Also, locker room stuff doesn’t forbade a coach from entering. It actually encourages locker room monitoring. It prohibits the coach being exposed in there at the same time as the minors, it prohibits recording, it discourages one-on-one locker room interactions between adults and minors when they can be avoided, but recognizes there may be necessary emergencies.
Please don’t think I’m yelling at you or judging your friend. I have a friend affiliated with sailing who had similar misunderstandings. All organizations need to do a better job navigating education surrounding SS, because the same misconceptions get tossed around repeatedly. If it had not been for the strong equestrian pushback, I certainly would have never taken the time to do a “deep dive” into the rules.
Of all people, she should know better. She also supported Rob Gage even though she has a number of childhood friends who were his victims.
I saw GM essentially molest some random boy in a public setting at a clinic some 40 years ago under the guise of correcting his position and I was shocked at the time by what he was doing. No, the accusations don’t surprise me in the least. Back then, no one said a word. In fact, I’ve never seen anyone publicly take GM on for his rampant verbal abuse of a child (or adult) at a clinic, even recently. Can you imagine what would happen to them if they did? Is there anyone here with the guts to do that?
I only personally know 1 other person on the banned list and he has a criminal conviction for sexual misconduct with a minor. That’s certainly not hearsay or unsubstantiated.
When SafeSport first came out, I had some serious doubts about it, although I never doubted that the Equestrian community needed it. Reading the hysterical rantings of people who say that it’s absolutely the child’s fault for not reporting abuse at the time and how people’s lives are ruined because of one unsubstantiated rumor from 50 years ago has made me change my mind. Cumbersome it may be, but it is absolutely necessary.
BTW, I don’t see this outpouring of support for some of the lesser-known names on the banned list. I guess you only get that if you’re famous.
Hypothetical question.
Let’s say this gets appealed and overturned. Are we ready to accept the individual back into the group without prejudice, without knowing the details of the appeal?
Many are.
I’m not, but I also have some bias based on stories from someone who trained with him that I found really appalling. My feelings on that matter predate the ss thing though, so I guess my feelings haven’t really changed with this news to begin with.
Now, I’m waiting for the GoFundMe page for GMs legal defense. I didn’t donate to Mary Phelps trip overseas and I wouldn’t do this.
If you joined the GM support page, pls let the rest of us know who is standing by GM. I’d like to know so that my dollars don’t go to those people in the future.
Who are you including in “we?” Can “we” vote to get off the island?
I am sure this has already been stated but you do realize that he is controlling the narrative by stating allegations from 1968-1972 - first, did he state the latest allegations that are in his SS punishment? No, because fifty years ago will get y’all going. Second, a four year period? Doesn’t sound like he did something once does it? He is nasty to people in public, why is it so hard to believe he is not nasty in private? You are only getting his side of the story and he might be a great rider and writer, but that doesn’t make him a great person.
We is anyone without firsthand knowledge, here on this board, reading this topic. We is also USEF, who will of course accept him back if this is overturned in appeals because otherwise they’d get the pants sued off of them.
Right now we have come to the conclusion, as a group, myself included (bolded before ‘some’ posters get on their righteous indignation boxes), that we are willing to condemn someone without knowing the details of the case - we trust that SS has done the due diligence in regards to the investigation and subsequent suspension.
Now, if the person, who has the right to appeal, does so and gets the suspension overturned… are we willing, as a group, to accept the person back with the same passion that we were willing to extricate them with, without knowing the details of the appeal?
I don’t know the answer for myself, but it’s something we have to be prepared to be accountable for. Everyone can make mistakes, even the governing bodies. I think not accepting them back is blatant hypocrisy, but at the same time I know that money=power, and power corrupts.
It’s a hard call, that’s all I’m saying.
I am once again thankful for the COTH forum. It is good for all of us to read these comments, most of them intelligently written, in order to think about the many sides to this difficult issue.
I would not ride with him or pay him for anything before all this. I don’t respect him as a person. He deliberately humiliated riders and was abusive to many who paid for his help and that disqualifies him as being respectable. Those of us who have been around for decades, before the internet and the cellphones and videotaping comments and having them go viral, know how mean he could be when it didn’t get put out in public.
Some of us NEVER accepted him in the first place.
100% agree with you.
Unfortunately, most of the rest of the HJ world does not agree with us.
The question still stands, in a broader sense. If someone is accused and successfully appeals, are we ready to accept them back? If not, can we agree that a SS suspension is going to cause lifetime damage to someone’s career, regardless of if the claims are justified or not?
Before “anyone” comes at me guns blazing saying I’m a sympathizer, I’m not. I just think discussing all possibilities are important. Know thine enemy.
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