George Morris on the SS list

[Jealoushe]

@Virginia Horse Mom

In other news from Facebook… The Horse Magazine and CH have reacted

I understand being upset about news involving someone who is a personal friend… but I am surprised. I have read much of what CH has written, and obviously do not share his perspective on this issue.

CH as in COTH?

[ladyj79]

I imagine George has a real attorney. He definitely has the financial backing of enough uberwealthy people.

[541hunter]

@poltroon

Except we’re actually already past that. We’ve had the first verdict and now we’re at the part where if this were a criminal proceeding he’d be sentenced and in jail with the ability to file an appeal.

Yeah it’s not a perfect analogy—since internal investigations and Safe Sport sanctions don’t require a hearing to be put in place. Thanks for clarifying the status; I should have done so in my original post.

[ladyj79]

I feel like there is a whole intersectional crisis that will also occur here, where people like Robert Dover will simply not be able to differentiate between standing against age old bigotry and rejecting a sexual predator who targeted adolescents.

[DunByMistake]

@Jealoushe

Is anyone in the FB group to monitor and let us know of anything upcoming that we might want to know about? Crowdfunding, lawsuits, protests etc? Who to avoid…

I joined the group. I have no doubts GM is guilty as sin but I wanted to see what people were saying.

It’s wild.

[vxf111]

@dannyboy

@vxf111

Yes. I saw it. It was a long time ago, maybe in the '70’s. Remember, I said “essentially”. As I said in an earlier post, he put his hands all over the boy to “correct his position” in what I considered to be a very inappropriate manner. Yes, I was appalled. Yes, It was in public - there were others in the stands. I had/have no idea who the boy was and if his parents were present. No, the boy himself didn’t say anything. So, no, I didn’t speak up. I doubt seriously if anyone else did either, but I have no idea. I will say that I have watched many GM clinics since and I have NEVER seen anyone speak up, no matter how verbally abusive he was to anyone - child or adult - even recently.

Exactly what was I supposed to say or do? Who was I supposed to take action with? No cell phones, no photographs, remember? No proof except in my memory. Any so-called authorities would have laughed at me. At worst, I would have been viciously attacked, like people are now who allege that GM is anything but a saint and the “Father of the sport” (gag) At best I would simply have been dismissed as a troublemaker, or perhaps as just jealous that it wasn’t me.

I am not suggesting you should have done anything different in the 70s… I am suggesting this is WHY we NEED Safesport today… so it’s NOT like back in the 70s when everyone turned a blind eye.

[RainWeasley]

@Jealoushe

CH as in COTH?

Carl Hector, apparently.

[RainWeasley]

@DunByMistake

I joined the group. I have no doubts GM is guilty as sin but I wanted to see what people were saying.

It’s wild.

You are brave. I was tempted to, but just from looking at comments by people on NONprivate posts, I don’t want to see what they are saying when surrounded by people that think just like themselves. I’m already irritated enough by the mass stupidity.

[dannyboy]

@ Happyhack

I cannot help myself, but now wonder quite now many of the the USEF list consciously set out to reach the top of the equestrian coaching profession, not because they love working with horses but because of the unfettered access it provides to potential victims?

There’s a frightening thought.

[sdlbredfan]

@poltroon

This would be Jonathan Soresi. He became a student of George Morris at Hunterdon when he was 13, then became George’s assistant trainer, specializing in the younger kids and ponies. He’s the assistant mentioned in “A Very Young Rider.”

In 2006 Soresi was arrested on charges of possession of child pornography, and in 2008 he pled guilty. He is in the sexual offender registry and has a SafeSport ban. The internet says he still teaches riding.

Soresi was the Hunterdon assistant trainer from 1977-1983.

One article you can read:
https://www.chronofhorse.com/article…ng-rider-grows

Thank you. That was much more helpful than Skydy’s dismissive one.

[Happyhack]

@RainWeasley

Carl Hector, apparently.

CH of The Horse magazine is Chris Hector, the long-time editor.

[anon6923113]

Sorry everyone. CH is Chris Hector. He runs The Horse Magazine’s Facebook page and is publicly standing with George, and has publicly stated that he feels the MeToo movement has gone “too far.”

I have enjoyed so many of his articles over the years. But I’m done. For an insightful, intelligent man, his mischaracterization of Safe Sport and the process is really disheartening to see.

[Silk]

@Dressurfrau

LaurieB - good for your Dad!

From what I’m reading, GM’s behavior has been glossed over for some time. He has/has a lot of power. So, I seriously doubt that SS and the USEF is acting upon unfounded info.

I see several big names that are supporting GM. I’m making a note of those trainers/pros to make sure I avoid them.

Can anyone provide a list of who is on the FB site supporting George? At the very least, they are acting less than professionally in their leap to his defence and condemnation of a program meant to protect people/children.

I feel very sorry for the survivors of abuse. They are reading the “defenses” of GM and thinking that they are not supported.

Candice King is one of the,. She was a FB friend (no longer though)

[Jealoushe]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Sorry everyone. CH is Chris Hector. He runs The Horse Magazine’s Facebook page and is publicly standing with George, and has publicly stated that he feels the MeToo movement has gone “too far.”

I have enjoyed so many of his articles over the years. But I’m done. For an insightful, intelligent man, his mischaracterization of Safe Sport and the process is really disheartening to see.

The man runs a magazine and he puts his neck and reputation on the line for an 81 year old predator?

Are people really this dumb?? Still??? In 2019. He thinks the #metoo movement has gone too far??

Like too far when someone touches you where they shouldn’t and tells you to not say anything if you want to keep riding your favourite horse?

Like too far when a trainer corners a child and forces open mouth kisses on them?

Like too far when you find child porn on a trainer who is around kids daily?

I’m telling you, these a**holes protecting the predators are going too DAMN far.

[Jealoushe]

@DunByMistake

I joined the group. I have no doubts GM is guilty as sin but I wanted to see what people were saying.

It’s wild.

Keep us posted

[anon6923113]

@ladyj79

I feel like there is a whole intersectional crisis that will also occur here, where people like Robert Dover will simply not be able to differentiate between standing against age old bigotry and rejecting a sexual predator who targeted adolescents.

Exactly… this train is clearly on the track, as evidenced by Tash N’s comment on The Horse Magazine’s Facebook post…

”Perhaps some of you screeching to the Heavens for immediate termination of George’s head from his body should do a little research in to the legality of homosexuality back in 1968 to 1972. The world that they lived in and the laws of that time regarding it. Then get off those HIGH HORSES you obviously cant ride and wait for actual proof of guilt or innocence not just heresay and social media propaganda.”

Newsflash everyone… adult males having sex with teenaged boys were child predators in 1968, and are child predators today. Society’s bigotry toward homosexuality is not an excuse for having sex with a minor.

Furthermore, it does a major disservice to the vast majority of the homosexual community out there to conflate homosexuality in general, with sexual relationships between adult men and minors.

[dannyboy]

This whole discussion brings to mind something that has stayed with me for a long time. I was watching a yet another clinic in which GM was being even more than usually cutting and sarcastic. The woman sitting next to me was someone new to the sport who was there to watch her daughter ride and she turned to me in bewilderment and asked “why is he being so mean to a group of young people who are just trying to do what he wants?”

I didn’t have an answer for her.

[Crashing_Boar]

@caffeinated

I think maybe people think anything that doesn’t involve police or criminal law enforcement is not an “investigation?”

THIS^ is precisely the issue. In the USA most of us grew up with the expectation that the rule of law is applied to all citizens equally, in all situations. That judge and jury of our peers are the final arbiters of whether or not a crime has been committed, and are empowered uniquely to administer punishment; not NGO’s including SS or USEF. We did not elect these NGO’s or any others to govern over us outside of US law. The U.S. Constitution is still a “thing,” and it guarantees us standardized due process.

Without getting into the individual personalities and unknowing speculations that comprise 99% of this thread, I can tell you one thing for sure: Regardless of where they come down on SS, NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE, anywhere is in favor of molestation of children.

However, our country is in the grips of Peak Scapegoat looking everywhere for a lightning rod, in every context. There are well-documented recent incidences of university Title IX “Star Chamber” trials going horribly wrong, ruining people’s lives without due process when in fact the “crime” was never even committed. I can think of 3 highly publicized cases off the top of my head. The point is that extra-judicial private bodies are being granted permission to all but destroy people’s reputions and lives, outside the envelope of U.S. law.

A poster many pages above mentioned that most equestrian trainers are independent, self-employed operators who are not used to being held to detailed rules by HR departments or NGB’s. This is very true. The biggest problem many people have with SS is its “rules” are unworkable in the context of ordinary barn operations. They seem to enforce a mindset where everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, is assumed to be engaged in criminal behavior unless they can provide minute-by-minute documentation that they’re “behaving.” The vet, the farrier, the muck-men, you, your mother, the guy who’s fixing the water heater and the guy on the feed truck. Just TRY running a business this way! You think the person in the ring can witness and control all of that at the same time? What if a kid has to go to the bathroom and the farrier is working in the barn, do you have to interrupt a lesson to go “supervise” a 17 year old’s pee as the only way to be sure the shoer hasn’t raped her? The idea that one can’t take a junior for a 5 minute ride to the corner store to buy lunch without specific parental notification and additional witnesses (who may not even be available) is frankly a new benchmark for crackpottery! Many of us are solo operators or employ part-time minimal staff. Do we really NEED to live in a paranoid panopticon surveillance state because 1 in 100,000 might be criminals? While the rest of the world just goes on about its normal business?

Here’s a practical solution for USEF: SS is mandated to apply to “Olympic” sports. Western riding, breed shows, hunters, gaited riding, rodeo, foxhunting, and the SUB-FEI levels of jumping, 3-day, and dressage are only peripherally related to the Olympic movement. Truly “Olympic” level riding involves mere tens of people out of 337 million. Therefore, the USEF should only require the SS compliance for those truly training at the FEI levels; a vanishingly small group of people, those under the most extreme performance pressure at the very pinnacle of the sport.

Let all other allegations of any and all misconduct, in any social context, be adjudicated by the legitimate US judicial authorities under due process of US law.

[DunByMistake]

So far, there is no official gofundme or other donation page set up that I can see.

It’s a lot of the same drivel that has been posted here and on Facebook.
“It happened 50 years ago in a different time”
“He didn’t molest me or my child therefore this cannot be true”
“His life is being ruined over ONE allegation”
“It is his right for due process and this should be in court, blah blah blah”

Like I said before, I think he’s guilty. I had a feeling this would be coming one day when the story came out about Jimmy Williams. I think George the horseman knows his stuff and genuinely loves horses. I don’t think George is a nice person however. I’d never pay to ride with him.

I respect Safesport for following through with this. I cannot imagine the quantity of wine I would have to consume if I worked either there or USEF this week. However, I do think they need to rethink their PR strategy. If they released a statement providing some details, that would dispel a lot of the ideas people have. Something like,

“Safesport received a complaint regarding alleged incidents occurring between Mr. Morris and a minor between 1968-1972. Mr. Morris was immediately notified of the nature of complaints. Safesport undertook an investigation that involved extensive interviews of victim, accused, colleagues, friends and family members. During investigation, an additional 3 complainants came forward. At the conclusion of the 18 month investigation, USEF felt a lifetime ban was appropriate. Mr. Morris will be appealing.”

Something like that would hopefully make it more obvious to people this was not something that was decided overnight and GM had the chance to defend himself and dispute allegations.

All you USEF members better be prepared for a hike in fees next year. Based on the number of people who SWEAR they are not renewing to show their support, revenue will be way down!

[findeight]

Just wondering if a SS ban could open the door for a civil suit. Any ideas? Methinks some supporters doth protest overmuch.

Very much looking forward to the NYT investigation being published ( and that’s somethkng Ive never said or even thought before). She did a very complete and detailed job with JW that really removed most doubts.