I just read that article about the charges against GM. What it describes is awful.
Anybody who would write in their memoir that they had sex with 10,000 people (and counting!) is exactly the type of asshole who would deny that there is any problem turning boys into sex slaves.
I suspect that many people are getting behind GM because their livelihoods depend on him sending them horses, clients, etc. - I expect he sends a lot of business many people’s way, people who, like so many in the horse world, look like they are doing very fine but in fact are three meals away from bankruptcy.
I love how everyone is a law enforcement expert because of this attempted murder. I’m a total true crime junkie, I listen to podcasts all day long and read true crime forums etc.
Charges aren’t made without serious evidence supporting the charge. They don’t throw charges out willy nilly because they only get one chance to do it right and not make mistakes for their case. Obviously we don’t know many details to the story but we have to trust that LE did a thorough investigation today and have used their expertise to lay the appropriate charges.
Thank you for your perspective. I can’t imagine how the claimants and witnesses are coping with the landslide of support for George Morris. Many of those people never even met him, but just assume that because he’s revered he could do no wrong.
No need to get snippy. I was just pointing out that not all juniors are minors and giving a specific age would be better. What’s it to you whether I’d like to know their age? To me, there is a difference between thirteen and 17, for instance. Initially, everyone heard Gage’s victims were 17 and he was 23. Later we learn that the victims were 13 and 14, and Gage was late 20’s early 30’s. It matters.
Well, for one thing, it is not entirely clear that the NYT alleges conduct that was illegal. Two of the victims indicated the sexual conduct began when they were 16. Even today, the age of consent in New Jersey is 16. The third victim says it began when he was a “teenager,” which again leaves it unclear whether the conduct was illegal. In the 1970’s, some states had even younger ages of consent (Hawaii was 14 until 2001).
Of course, in the 1970’s, sodomy was illegal in most places… but I doubt SS wants to hang their hat on the homophobia that ruled the day.
We don’t know if SS has more evidence than what is recounted in the NYT. Sounds like “Fisk” may have inside knowledge that they do… Personally, I would be a lot more comfortable banning someone for conduct that continued at least into this century so you have more confidence they didn’t reform or rehabilitate. (Not that there is any evidence GM ever repented for any conduct…)
For anyone on this board who says “it doesn’t matter whether the conduct was illegal back in the day,” I urge you to consider the following thought experiment. Suppose in the future, armed with the knowledge of how slow young people’s prefrontal cortexes develop, the age of consent is raised to 21. For those of you who slept with someone under the age of 21: would you think it was okay for you to be retroactively banned from the organization that governs your profession? Or would you say, “Hey, that’s not fair. When I went to college it was okay for a 21-year old junior to have a relationship with an 18 year old freshman…”
I am no defender of GM, but there is no doubt that SS could raise interesting and thorny issues, especially if it is challenged in court. All we can do is wait and see…
Safe sports is a code of conduct for a club and an industry. if you want to roll the dice on statutory rape, that’s your choice, but you can’t be in the club.
While the age of consent in NJ is 16, if the victim is less than 18 and the partner has a position of authority over them (or is a relative or guardian), then the partner can be prosecuted. It doesn’t specify if there is a difference between hetero and homosexual contact. (source - (sorry) Wikipedia)
Although several comments state that he will continue to give clinics/lessons etc. if you read the SS rules, any USEA member caught participating will be sanctioned/banned for life as well = guilty by association…which opens up another whole can of worms where people can report people who continue to do business with the banned people.(Can anyone say witch hunt?) I feel if the SS committee feels there is credible evidence they should report this to the civil authorities as all the offenses are illegal to begin with, and if, or after they are convicted in a court of law, sentenced etc. then they should be banned from the sport. This pseudo SafeSport investigation/conviction process is a mockery - they can declare someone a sexual predator but other than being ejected from a sport, nothing punitive happens to them? Outrageous! They can go anywhere, live anywhere & no one knows, sort of makes the national registry of pedophiles a joke as it will be missing some people…
No clinics and, since George Morris, is an FEI member and there is reciprocity between USEF and FEI, no international clinics either. At least I read that someplace. Not sure I remember where. As someone noted upthread, it’s been a whacky week.
I’m sorry, I think you have misunderstood the point I was making. It isn’t a question of what is illegal now; it is a question of what was illegal in the 1970’s. And the follow-up question is: if SS bans someone based on conduct that was legal at the time it occurred, will that be upheld in a court of law (assuming someone challenges it).
Of course, this may all be moot if “Fisk” is correct that SS is basing the sanction on more recent conduct and/or conduct that was clearly illegal. We will just have to wait and see.
[QUOTE=ladyj79;n10448948]
Judy, I appreciate everything you have brought to this discussion over the last year, but the process has happened.
Wait because I took lessons from George is no more appropriate than wait because George didn’t molest my handsome husband who was an adult."
I frankly don’t care if you appreciate my participation. Read for comprehension and stop inserting your interpretation. I am simply willing to wait for the appeal FOR ANY ONE ACCUSED. There is a process for a reason. Let’s let it happen.
Your “ Wait…” comment is insulting in the extreme. How dare you. .
I was addressing your first paragraph. My point was that, while the age of consent is, and maybe was,16, there are circumstances that could effectively make it 18.
Well, we know that Jonathan Soresi was 13 when he went to live with GM. That’s underage for sexual activity by anyone’s standards–except that it’s entirely possible that age of consent laws only applied to females back then; that was certainly true in many states. If homosexual sex or unnatural sex sodomy were illegal back then, sexual activity would have been illegal no matter what age the parties were.
It seems to me that if one is going to rely on the laws back then, all of the laws prohibiting behaviour have to be taken into account, and that means that the sex in question was very likely illegal no matter what laws you want to apply.
Remember that state laws against “Unnatural sex” were held to be legal by the US Supreme Court as recently as 2007.
THIS^ The obvious solution for those who wish to continue to exercise their right of free association is to drop their USEF membership and fill out recognized show entries paying the rat-bite “non-member fees.” I would urge the same for anyone who’d like to go back to running their business normally without the paranoid overlook of the SS Stasi, which has no jurisdiction over United States interstate commerce whatsoever.
Has anyone even considered what “message” these SS “rules” send to young people? You can’t trust ANY adult. Everyone is a predator. You can never think you’re safe, anywhere or with anyone, male or female. Never relax. Never confide. Never let anyone touch you for any reason. All men are rapists. Everyone’s a victim and helpless. You still need a babysitter at 17, with mommie cc’d on every text. You’re not allowed to exchange messages with younger friends because YOU might be accused!
Does that sound like a recipe for resilient mental health in young adulthood? This is triple overkill, people!
Actually, the message SS conveys to young people is that safe adults who have your best interests at heart will respect appropriate boundaries and follow a professional code of conduct. But by all means, continue to hyperventilate into your paper bag over your completely imaginary interpretations SS rules and processes.
