George Morris on the SS list

[Reddi]

Regardless of any appeals George Morris have been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers on social media. The social media’s feeding frenzy is the current way to tar and feather the perpetrator. Now that everyone has been able to verbal vomit give it a rest and move on.

[PintoPony]

Please note that the following comment refers to the general horse community, not any particular individual

It makes me sick to see how many people act like children being molested is no big deal!!

Some people say they would never risk their horses well being for a cheap horse show ribbon but it seems they’re more than willing to turn a blind eye to the kids who are having their lives ruined for the exact same thing.

Disgusting at the lowest possible level.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@Reddi

Regardless of any appeals George Morris have been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers on social media. Hardly :rolleyes: The social media’s feeding frenzy is the current way to tar and feather the perpetrator You used an appropriate noun.The rest of it is inaccurate. . Now that everyone has been able to verbal vomit give it a rest and move on. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes: So- punctuation and sentence structure are your friend (or could be).

Have you read social media? They are not even allowing for both sides to be heard.

[SonnysMom]

@PonyPenny

You can’t believe that. Why don’t you ask a young person what SafeSport conveys? You will get an entire different response that your fantasied version.

My bet is they think that these rules and restrictions are pretty normal. This is how most clubs work such as: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, sports teams, after school activities. This is how interactions with their school teachers work.
They don’t friend their school teachers, they don’t text their school teachers, the school teacher doesn’t lock the door when they are providing after school help.
The Little League coach does not friend them, they are not texting individual players.

They don’t just hop in the car to go to the corner convenience store with their school teachers or coaches from other sports without their parents permission. This is the world they have been involved with for a long time and it is their norm for areas outside the equestrian world. Equestrian is just starting to catch up with the rest of the world.

I graduated HS in 1986. I am not a parent. It would never occur to me to drive a child somewhere without that parent’s permission unless I knew the family very well or it was an emergency.
Part of this comes from how I was raised. There were people my parents did not consider to be safe drivers so would not want me in their car. If my parents thought I was at the barn or a particular friend’s house then I should not be randomly going somewhere else without letting them know. They tended to like to know where I was and who I was with.

None of us had our coaches or teacher’s home phone numbers. Obviously this was before cell phones and texting so home phone is as close as it gets. My parent’s probably had a non-school affiliated coaches phone numbers so they could call him/her and say SonnysMom is sick today so won’t make practice/game. But I would not have had that phone number. If the coach was affiliated with the school then they would have left the message with the school receptionist.

[RainWeasley]

@Reddi

Regardless of any appeals George Morris have been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers on social media. The social media’s feeding frenzy is the current way to tar and feather the perpetrator. Now that everyone has been able to verbal vomit give it a rest and move on.

Lol what? Have you even been on social media?

[CiegoStar]

@Reddi

Regardless of any appeals George Morris have been tried and convicted by a jury of his peers on social media. The social media’s feeding frenzy is the current way to tar and feather the perpetrator. Now that everyone has been able to verbal vomit give it a rest and move on.

You must be on different social media than I am. On Facebook, 90% of posts I see are about what a great man GM is and how dare they try to ruin his career! Never thought I’d see so many fervent defenses of a serial pedophile. It is sickening.

[Angela_Freda]

@Farhills123

I stand with the victims. I have known GM since I was 9 years old. He is a brilliant coach, a master. He is also an incredible judge of people and a master manipulator, which is one of the reason why he can get the most out of his students. He is charming, he is funny, he can talk about just about any topic. He loves to travel and meet new and interesting people. I am now 42 years old and I last saw George about 4 years ago, we spent a few nights catching up at a weekend away with some horse friends and he helped me with my horse, got on him and jumped him around. It was wonderful.
Having said all that I must point out something which I am so surprised no one seems to have noticed. In his very own book he talks several times about how he has two sides to his personality. He discusses his wild party days, how he would go off the rails in the 70s and blow off steam after the horse show. There is a professional, very ‘grown up’ side to GM and there is a childish, petulant - what he would call ‘naughty’ side to him as well. He talks about those wild days to his friends often.

I did not actually train with GM, my mother wouldnt let me. I trained with his assistant coaches and did the equitation, not the jumpers. I did not witness anything but there have ALWAYS been - from the time I was a child until most recently a few years ago - much much younger boys /men around him. As he got older they were more ‘boy toys’ - definitely over the age of 18 but always way way younger than George himself.

His reach into the sport is extraordinary. Go back and read his book. With the exception of Missy and Andre (although Andre’s mentor was Judy Richter who has a long and close relationship with GM) - anyway, his ‘reach’ into the big name trainers and helping put them on the map in some way or other is why he is being defended / protected (call it what you will). He has doled out favours his entire career. He is not Santa and has never professed to be so. He has calmed down in his elderly age but believe me - in the 70s and 80s and most of the early 90s - if you were called on by George to do something, no matter how old you were - you did it.

Imagine having that kind of power and then imagine a teenage boy going to live with him. He had teenage boys living with him all throughout his years at Hunterdon. And whatever happened in that house (and I am not saying this was Jeffrey Epstein, mind you, I am not saying that at all), but can’t we all admit that there is an enormous power dynamic there just waiting to be exploited?
And then look at his protégées - his students, Let’s see. And in no particular order. Bill Cooney. Who had a relationship with Frank Madden who was a junior at the time. Frank who then went on to have a relationship with Stacia Madden who was a junior. And then went on to have another relationship with a junior. All of that is absolutely well known.

And then there are his other protégées which I think are noticeable for their ABSENCE in his book - Conrad. Ray Texel. Where are they in standing up for him? What did they see or experience?

Chris Kappler is absent also. I respect their privacy. Emotions must be incredibly mixed for anyone involved, even just those who were students and nothing more.

I am a woman. I could very easily write something like Katie did - I never witnessed anything. He has been nothing but wonderful and supportive of my riding. My grandmother, mother and myself have known GM. My grandmother told me stories of GM when he quite riding and worked in NYC as an actor. That is how far back we go. I have never witnessed anything inappropriate myself but there have always been rumours.

Candice King, Molly Ashe, Katie Prudent. They can all stand up for George. But my darlings, you are women and you are not George’s cup of tea.

I stand for the victims.

Safe sport has many flaws but this has been in the works for a couple years. The public may be surprised but EVERYONE who is anyone in the horse community has known about this investigation. The investigation has concluded and he has been found guilty.

It is a sad sad week for our sport.

He is and always will be an amazing teacher, a “teacher’s teacher”. A huge guiding force in our sport for 50 + years. It is upsetting even for me to see him stripped of all that because he is VERY GOOD AT HIS JOB.

But people are complex and they are more than just one thing. And I encourage everyone to re-read his book with new eyes and take a breathe and try and take the great things he has taught us about horses and riding, but please recognise that there are victimS here. I believe the safe sport board would not have found him guilty without real proof. I really do. No one wants this to happen to our sport. It is a sad day for everyone involved.

My comment in body of post, in color

[spotnnotfarm]

Here is my question and also, problem with SS. I am a teacher and have seen first hand what the effects of abuse look like. It is absolutely horrific! Anyone who inappropriately touches a child, undoes whatever good they do. I do not care who they are or how big their name is.

Here is my issue with Safe Sport. If they investigate an individual and found them to be guilty, why do they not hand the evidence over to the police. As many posts have stated. Several people have been banned from USEF but are still training and doing clinics. I think it may take away some of the SS witch hunt theories if this happened. It would also get predators off the streets.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@spotnnotfarm

Here is my question and also, problem with SS. I am a teacher and have seen first hand what the effects of abuse look like. It is absolutely horrific! Anyone who inappropriately touches a child, undoes whatever good they do. I do not care who they are or how big their name is.

Here is my issue with Safe Sport. If they investigate an individual and found them to be guilty, why do they not hand the evidence over to the police. As many posts have stated. Several people have been banned from USEF but are still training and doing clinics. I think it may take away some of the SS witch hunt theories if this happened. It would also get predators off the streets.

You are not informed accurately. Anything that can be prosecuted is indeed passed onto the police during an investigation.

These crimes are INCREDIBLY challenging to prosecute in criminal court. Absence of prosecution is not evidence of Safe Sport failing to cooperate with law enforcement.

[hoopoe]

“Chris Kappler is absent also. I respect their privacy. Emotions must be incredibly mixed for anyone involved, even just those who were students and nothing more”

I would say the whole upper level H/J community is having a moment

a moment to reflect about how this well known secret was perpetuated and indirectly supported through their slavish devotion to this “demigod in breeches” ( movie director Stanley Kramer’s words)

How perhaps some who saw, never reached out a hand to those victims who spiraled in

How money and corruption is tip-toeing up in the form of Epstein and Wexner and what the by-kill will be on that debacle.

Our BNT and riders are Standing By Their Man I suspect because the pain of admitting they pushed aside the moral and ethical issues so they could advance. They are probably wondering now what shoe will drop that kick them.

They point at the Federation and SS as being the big evil but the reality is, I think the Golden Goose is laying square eggs and there are a lot of frightened people

[prairiewind2]

@Farhills123

It is a sad sad week for our sport.

I disagree. It is a good day. Finally, after 50 or so years, an abuser of children has been outed in public. Whether or not you believe he is a sexual predator, he was clearly an abuser in a verbal way. I live with a husband who was viciously verbally abused as a child and I can tell you it destroys.

As I said in an earlier post, I’m a nobody. I never ran in circles that knew anything about GM. But he told me who he was in his clinics, when I could finally see them online. And I was appalled, sickened, not only by him but by everyone who knew what he was and turned away, even idolized him. Enabled him to reach the heights he did. All while using children as his stepping stones. That was a choice the equestrian world made willingly.

Today is a good day. We’ve opened the windows and swept the filth out the door.

[NoSuchPerson]

@spotnnotfarm

Here is my issue with Safe Sport. If they investigate an individual and found them to be guilty, why do they not hand the evidence over to the police. As many posts have stated. Several people have been banned from USEF but are still training and doing clinics. I think it may take away some of the SS witch hunt theories if this happened. It would also get predators off the streets.

1. SafeSport does pass evidence along to police. It says so right in their policies. If they uncover evidence that could be admitted to and used in criminal proceedings, they contact law enforcement.

2. There is a difference in the standard of proof required for criminal prosecutions and that required for SafeSport to take action. The nature of the evidence used in a SafeSport decision may not be deemed sufficient to initiate legal proceedings.

3. In most states, there are Statutes of Limitation on crimes. If the crime happened more than X number of years ago, charges cannot be filed. SafeSport isn’t limited by this.

[jhg140]

@spotnnotfarm

Here is my question and also, problem with SS. I am a teacher and have seen first hand what the effects of abuse look like. It is absolutely horrific! Anyone who inappropriately touches a child, undoes whatever good they do. I do not care who they are or how big their name is.

Here is my issue with Safe Sport. If they investigate an individual and found them to be guilty, why do they not hand the evidence over to the police. As many posts have stated. Several people have been banned from USEF but are still training and doing clinics. I think it may take away some of the SS witch hunt theories if this happened. It would also get predators off the streets.

If the statute of limitations has not expired in the jurisdiction where the crime took place, and the victim wishes to cooperate with law enforcement and press charges, law enforcement is notified and a separate criminal investigation is opened.

[roseymare]

@Horsegirl's Mom

Yes, I think we all understand that.

The question is whether that could be challenged in court. People say, “a private club can do whatever it wants.” However, I’m not sure a court would agree that USEF is merely a private club, like Tarrytown Bridge Club or Norwell Elks Club. The reason is that USEF has near-monopoly control over a particular livelihood–i.e., being a hunter/jumper professional. And yes, I know you can still teach riding in your backyard even if you are banned from USEF, but let’s all be honest and admit it’s not the same, and if you were not already a famous trainer it would pretty much cut off your ability to become one. I think likening it to a state bar association or medical board is somewhat apt.

A true private club can make whatever rules it wants: “No women” “No Asians” or whatever. I’m not so sure that a group that exercises such powerful control over a particular profession can do so. Does anyone really believe USEF could make a rule barring Asians or women?

Remember, private universities are “private,” but courts have struck down their sexual assault tribunals on the ground they don’t provide adequate due process. So clearly there are limits on what some private institutions can do.

I don’t think these issues are simple. I will be very interested to see what legal challenges are raised and how they are decided.

I support SS’s mission, and i don’t defend GM, but as an attorney I’m definitely intrigued by how this will go.

Non-competes are often allowed to stand. Sure they are not typically lifetime but they prevent livelihood just as much if not moreso than USEF.

[RugBug]

@poltroon

Again, his statement that “Any allegations that suggest I have acted in ways that are harmful to any individual, the broader equestrian community, and sport that I love dearly are false and hurtful.” is so obviously far from the truth to all of us. And how ironic that he would then say, words said about him are hurtful.

While I don’t necessarily feel the same way as some on this thread about the absolute evilness of George in all aspects of his person, I will say that the villian never believes that they are the villian. They often believe they are the hero. And he has had a lot of feedback over the years telling him he’s the hero.

[Angela_Freda]

@hoopoe

“Chris Kappler is absent also. I respect their privacy. Emotions must be incredibly mixed for anyone involved, even just those who were students and nothing more”

I would say the whole upper level H/J community is having a moment

a moment to reflect about how this well known secret was perpetuated and indirectly supported through their slavish devotion to this “demigod in breeches” ( movie director Stanley Kramer’s words)

How perhaps some who saw, never reached out a hand to those victims who spiraled in

How money and corruption is tip-toeing up in the form of Epstein and Wexner and what the by-kill will be on that debacle.

Our BNT and riders are Standing By Their Man I suspect because the pain of admitting they pushed aside the moral and ethical issues so they could advance. They are probably wondering now what shoe will drop that kick them.

They point at the Federation and SS as being the big evil but the reality is, I think the Golden Goose is laying square eggs and there are a lot of frightened people

Agreed.
But part of that is understanding and acknowledging that many who witnessed thing, just the atmosphere or more than that, were oftentimes just young kids at the time. Kids in these situations can often, beyond their immaturity, quickly normalize what to mature outsiders is troubling at best.

Certainly those who were young due to their actual age, or immature due to other factors (sheltered, coming from a broken home, etc) need to cut themselves some slack. That g-you didn’t make a stink isn’t your fault if you’d entered this environment at 13, 15,… or a bit younger or older.

Even if kids in his sphere were not abused in the literal sense, they were likely groomed into accepting, normalizing what was going on around them. Including the perfect example of how GM spoke to and about students. There’s a whole thread here about it for gosh sakes, that many adults laughed off and poo-poo’d… If adults didn’t speak up, it’s not hard to understand why kids at the time, or as they grew up also didn’t say anything, and perhaps thought nothing of it. “That’s how he is” was a repeated comment… theme, accepted explanation.

Its how this kind of abuse happens and is perpetuated. Because kids are powerless, naive, and picked for their specific vulnerabilities. None of that, and none of this is on those who experienced this as kids.

[Mosey_2003]

@SonnysMom

My bet is they think that these rules and restrictions are pretty normal. This is how most clubs work such as: Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, sports teams, after school activities. This is how interactions with their school teachers work.
They don’t friend their school teachers, they don’t text their school teachers, the school teacher doesn’t lock the door when they are providing after school help.
The Little League coach does not friend them, they are not texting individual players.

They don’t just hop in the car to go to the corner convenience store with their school teachers or coaches from other sports without their parents permission. This is the world they have been involved with for a long time and it is their norm for areas outside the equestrian world. Equestrian is just starting to catch up with the rest of the world.

Yes, I did an entire video training with my friend in order to be allowed to drive the children on a local field trip from the Catholic pre-school. This is all covered and acted out and tested at the end. You don’t offer random rides, you don’t call or text, you don’t spend time alone with a student, etc. This is not some new, made up set of rules.

[ASB_Stars]

Anyone see this?

http://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/worlds-top-short-track-speed-skater-banned-after-pulling-down-teammates-pants/ar-AAFySr1?li=BBnbfcL

It’s a whole new world. This would certainly have been unacceptable at any time, in reality, but people did it. Wasn’t there something called “pantsing”? Not sure what that entailed…in any event, here we are.

[LuvRedHeads]

@Farhills123

I stand with the victims. I have known GM since I was 9 years old. He is a brilliant coach, a master. He is also an incredible judge of people and a master manipulator, which is one of the reason why he can get the most out of his students. He is charming, he is funny, he can talk about just about any topic. He loves to travel and meet new and interesting people. I am now 42 years old and I last saw George about 4 years ago, we spent a few nights catching up at a weekend away with some horse friends and he helped me with my horse, got on him and jumped him around. It was wonderful.
Having said all that I must point out something which I am so surprised no one seems to have noticed. In his very own book he talks several times about how he has two sides to his personality. He discusses his wild party days, how he would go off the rails in the 70s and blow off steam after the horse show. There is a professional, very ‘grown up’ side to GM and there is a childish, petulant - what he would call ‘naughty’ side to him as well. He talks about those wild days to his friends often.

I did not actually train with GM, my mother wouldnt let me. I trained with his assistant coaches and did the equitation, not the jumpers. I did not witness anything but there have ALWAYS been - from the time I was a child until most recently a few years ago - much much younger boys /men around him. As he got older they were more ‘boy toys’ - definitely over the age of 18 but always way way younger than George himself.

His reach into the sport is extraordinary. Go back and read his book. With the exception of Missy and Andre (although Andre’s mentor was Judy Richter who has a long and close relationship with GM) - anyway, his ‘reach’ into the big name trainers and helping put them on the map in some way or other is why he is being defended / protected (call it what you will). He has doled out favours his entire career. He is not Santa and has never professed to be so. He has calmed down in his elderly age but believe me - in the 70s and 80s and most of the early 90s - if you were called on by George to do something, no matter how old you were - you did it.

Imagine having that kind of power and then imagine a teenage boy going to live with him. He had teenage boys living with him all throughout his years at Hunterdon. And whatever happened in that house (and I am not saying this was Jeffrey Epstein, mind you, I am not saying that at all), but can’t we all admit that there is an enormous power dynamic there just waiting to be exploited?
And then look at his protégées - his students, Let’s see. And in no particular order. Bill Cooney. Who had a relationship with Frank Madden who was a junior at the time. Frank who then went on to have a relationship with Stacia Madden who was a junior. And then went on to have another relationship with a junior. All of that is absolutely well known.

And then there are his other protégées which I think are noticeable for their ABSENCE in his book - Conrad. Ray Texel. Where are they in standing up for him? What did they see or experience?

I am a woman. I could very easily write something like Katie did - I never witnessed anything. He has been nothing but wonderful and supportive of my riding. My grandmother, mother and myself have known GM. My grandmother told me stories of GM when he quite riding and worked in NYC as an actor. That is how far back we go. I have never witnessed anything inappropriate myself but there have always been rumours.

Candice King, Molly Ashe, Katie Prudent. They can all stand up for George. But my darlings, you are women and you are not George’s cup of tea.

I stand for the victims.

Safe sport has many flaws but this has been in the works for a couple years. The public may be surprised but EVERYONE who is anyone in the horse community has known about this investigation. The investigation has concluded and he has been found guilty.

It is a sad sad week for our sport.

He is and always will be an amazing teacher, a “teacher’s teacher”. A huge guiding force in our sport for 50 + years. It is upsetting even for me to see him stripped of all that because he is VERY GOOD AT HIS JOB.

But people are complex and they are more than just one thing. And I encourage everyone to re-read his book with new eyes and take a breathe and try and take the great things he has taught us about horses and riding, but please recognise that there are victimS here. I believe the safe sport board would not have found him guilty without real proof. I really do. No one wants this to happen to our sport. It is a sad day for everyone involved.

Thank you for sharing this. Your voice stands out as a rational, balanced and educated one. Well written.

[RugBug]

@ASB Stars

I think that those who are trying to defend GHM are seeking to make SS look like McCarthyism for the equine world. Insert “sex offender” for “Communist”, and you get my drift. In other words, they want SS to look like some kind of movement that has gone awry, and is netting innocent equestrians. Not. So. Much.

They are wrong as a whole, however, there are some similarities. This idea of making lists of people who join that group and comments that ‘anyone who supports him must be hiding their own abusive tendencies’ etc definitely supports their thoughts.

People are grieving and you can clearly see the typical stages of grief in their responses. It’s a shame that it is playing out publicly, But the point that everyone becomes smart about what they post on social media will probably be the end of the world as we know it.