George Morris on the SS list

[Alterforme]

I wonder if Eric Lamaze still thinks the horse world owes George an apology ?

George owes the victims & the horse world an apology. 

My heart breaks for all his victims. I hope his name gets removed from trophies, classes, clinics & stadiums.

[ClerkofCourts]

Here we go kids, the article we’ve been waiting for, not revelatory but certainly fills in some blanks. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/sports/george-morris.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage&register=email&auth=register-email

[Denali6298]

Just touching back on the qualifications of the investigators and others who work for Safe Sport.

https://safesport.bamboohr.com/jobs/

Here are the job postings. They require experience.

[fair_judy]

@Denali6298

Just touching back on the qualifications of the investigators and others who work for Safe Sport.

https://safesport.bamboohr.com/jobs/

Here are the job postings. They require experience.

I’m amazed that you continue to be so obtuse about this aspect of the discussion. The comments about the wording on the issue by SS are valid in that initially a non- qualified( as a reporter I asked all three of my interviewers what their creds were) clearly are not in this designated class. All this Safe Sport is perfect already is as naive as George is completely
innocent. Let’s recognize and fix the glitches instead of taking an irrational high ground.

[Ghazzu]

@Horsegirl's Mom

Yes, I think we all understand that.

The question is whether that could be challenged in court. People say, “a private club can do whatever it wants.” However, I’m not sure a court would agree that USEF is merely a private club, like Tarrytown Bridge Club or Norwell Elks Club. The reason is that USEF has near-monopoly control over a particular livelihood–i.e., being a hunter/jumper professional. And yes, I know you can still teach riding in your backyard even if you are banned from USEF, but let’s all be honest and admit it’s not the same, and if you were not already a famous trainer it would pretty much cut off your ability to become one. I think likening it to a state bar association or medical board is somewhat apt.

A true private club can make whatever rules it wants: “No women” “No Asians” or whatever. I’m not so sure that a group that exercises such powerful control over a particular profession can do so. Does anyone really believe USEF could make a rule barring Asians or women?

Remember, private universities are “private,” but courts have struck down their sexual assault tribunals on the ground they don’t provide adequate due process. So clearly there are limits on what some private institutions can do.

I don’t think these issues are simple. I will be very interested to see what legal challenges are raised and how they are decided.

I support SS’s mission, and i don’t defend GM, but as an attorney I’m definitely intrigued by how this will go.

I believe the basis for court rulings wrt private universities is their acceptance of government funds, either grant money or guaranteed loans. So not the same thing at all.

[Alterforme]

A GM victim should write a book… call it in “Unfathomable”.

[Silk]

@Jealoushe

I love how everyone is a law enforcement expert because of this attempted murder. I’m a total true crime junkie, I listen to podcasts all day long and read true crime forums etc.

Charges aren’t made without serious evidence supporting the charge. They don’t throw charges out willy nilly because they only get one chance to do it right and not make mistakes for their case. Obviously we don’t know many details to the story but we have to trust that LE did a thorough investigation today and have used their expertise to lay the appropriate charges.

Doesnt it have to go to the Grand Jury to see if it will be tried?

[dannyboy]

I just took a look at the COTH FB page on Michael Barisone incident. One of the first comments I saw was “something is wrong in the horse world”. I couldn’t help but laugh.
Obvious, much?

Then I had to quit reading. The rest of the comments varied between “He should be hung” and “But it was self defense!” Judging from the number of people who “know” what happened there must have been a huge number of witnesses.

Now, if only George had kept someone around with a clipboard to tick off the numbers…

I’m sorry, I haven’t had enough coffee yet and I have to find some humour in all of this or I’ll start crying.
Edited because I haven’t had enough coffee yet and there were misspellings.

[snaffle1987]

per a poster over on the infamous “Diva” (I don’t frequent the board because its classless but there are some people with brains there), a friend of the poster was involved in the investigation after the GM Camp threatened her. Apparently the investigation goes much, much farther than a single incident 50 years ago, as GM said. They have evidence that goes all the way up through the 90’s and 2000’s and its bad. Sufficient information that is bad enough that he is never going to get out of this. Per the poster, another hunterdon affiliate is likely to go down in the near future as well.

As another poster mentioned who was close with GM, this investigation has been going on for a long, long time. this is not something that Safesport took on 2 months ago and jumped to conclusions.

I found it extremely suspicious that Bernie Traurig relinquished his memberships as a “protest” to what occurred. When you relinquish your memberships, SS can’t investigate you.

[Pennywell_Bay]

@ClerkofCourts

Here we go kids, the article we’ve been waiting for, not revelatory but certainly fills in some blanks. https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/08/sports/george-morris.html?action=click&module=News&pgtype=Homepage&register=email&auth=register-email

Just and FYI- a ISWG member posted the link (2ce) and it was taken down (2ce) saying “This is a support page only. Don’t name the accuser. It’s for GM only” (not a direct quote but you get the gist and it is close).

People DON’T WANT TO BE INFORMED.

[dannyboy]

@ FairHills123 Thank you for this!

[specifiedcupcake]

@snaffle1987

per a poster over on the infamous “Diva” (I don’t frequent the board because its classless but there are some people with brains there), a friend of the poster was involved in the investigation after the GM Camp threatened her. Apparently the investigation goes much, much farther than a single incident 50 years ago, as GM said. They have evidence that goes all the way up through the 90’s and 2000’s and its bad. Sufficient information that is bad enough that he is never going to get out of this. Per the poster, another hunterdon affiliate is likely to go down in the near future as well.

As another poster mentioned who was close with GM, this investigation has been going on for a long, long time. this is not something that Safesport took on 2 months ago and jumped to conclusions.

I found it extremely suspicious that Bernie Traurig relinquished his memberships as a “protest” to what occurred. When you relinquish your memberships, SS can’t investigate you.

The Bernie info definitely piqued my interest… But like. If he “goes down” as part of the fallout from someone’s investigation… they can probably still ban him from USEF anyway? Like you don’t have to be an active member to be told “actually you can’t be a member.” Be another interesting question to pose to SS.

[hoopoe]

@dannyboy

@ FairHills123 Thank you for this!

agree. I have been on COTH many years and this post stands out a mile for its thoughtful, well considered voice. Please stay a friend and share as a part of our community

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

I’ve caught up on this entire thread, and read the NYT report. A few observations…

1. The NYT report does seem as though it may have been rushed to print in certain respects. They had to run it as soon as this news broke. It’s understandable.

2. The two names in the article are Jonathan Soresi and Michael Hart. Both have long been rumored to be victims. They also are both tragic examples of what folks mean when they say, “There are no perfect victims.” I do not know Mr. Soresi, nor do I condone the possession of child porn for any reason… but I am willing to say I Stand with him. He was once a 13 year old boy who lost his father at the age of 6. According to the NYT article, he was from a modest background. He went to live and train with GHM at Hunterdon. And his life went off the rails for many years as an adult. That is a tragedy. Soresi’s decision to come forward all these years later and see this through? He has given the other victims - whoever they may be - a voice. Including Michael Hart… who has died. There are rumors of one other possible victim… who has also died too young. So incredibly sad.

3. I’m taking a break from Facebook… but am curious if there are attacks starting on Soresi. For those of you who are flies on the wall in the “I Stand With George” group… I hope you are willing to report online vitriol directed at him, just as you did when it was directed at AK, and Hilary. There are no perfect victims… they all were vulnerable young teens once though. They all deserve compassion.

4. I’ve heard some other truly tragic stories recently as well about additional victims. This behavior went past these two. Bottom line… it’s not ok to name names. I hope that the equestrian world can get their $hit together and show more in the way of compassion and be careful with their comments. I can’t imagine the stress some victims who chose NOT to come forward are feeling right now. I hope as the appeal plays out, they find support if they need it privately, or decide to contact Safe Sport if that works for them instead. Or not. They were all just kids once, and deserved a chance to ride and learn and pursue sports without experiencing sexual exploitation. It’s not ok. Not for young girls. Not for young boys who grow up to be gay men. Kids are kids and ALL minors should be off limits. Period.

5. I’m going to encourage folks… be kind. compassionate and mindful as this plays out. If people who have connections to GM from any prior time are choosing not to speak… leave them alone. Hopefully they do feel confident enough in the individuals from Safe Sport who have handled the investigation to speak up privately… if they so choose. Regardless, they alone are the ones that get to make that choice.

6. We often hear statistics with respect to the low incidence of false reports of sexual abuse/assault. Are there specific statistics on the incidence of false reporting by males? My guess is that number is quite low. Just something to think about.

[snaffle1987]

@specifiedcupcake

The Bernie info definitely piqued my interest… But like. If he “goes down” as part of the fallout from someone’s investigation… they can probably still ban him from USEF anyway? Like you don’t have to be an active member to be told “actually you can’t be a member.” Be another interesting question to pose to SS.

I believe they can. They listed Jimmy Williams even though he was deceased

[Texarkana]

@snaffle1987

I found it extremely suspicious that Bernie Traurig relinquished his memberships as a “protest” to what occurred. When you relinquish your memberships, SS can’t investigate you.

I was wondering about this part. I also had the same suspicion about him relinquishing his membership and whether it was truly in protest or a thinly veiled attempt to protect himself.

But:

1. How exactly does one “relinquish” their membership? For as long as I can remember, you’ve had the option to join USEF annually or pay for a lifetime membership (I also think there might have been a family membership way back in the day?). I’ve always paid annually because even at my most active, I only attend a handful of USEF-affiliated shows a year, and many years I attend none. I’m assuming someone like Traurig would have a lifetime membership. I’ve never seen any verbiage in the rulebook about how one can “cancel” their membership-- can someone point me to it if it exists? An annual membership would just expire, but a lifetime membership? If you tell USEF “cancel my lifetime membership,” do they actually do it?

2. SafeSport/USEF still made a point about listing Jimmy Williams as permanently ineligible, whose membership was clearly inactive. I understand USEF was probably holding him up as an example, and it gave credence to their removal of his name from awards. But based on the JW situation alone, it doesn’t seem like an active membership is necessary for SS to issue a sanction.

3. You can show at most (all?) USEF shows by paying a non-member fee. So how does that factor in to all of this? Say you are successful in relinquishing your membership to prevent SafeSport investigation-- that doesn’t necessarily stop you from showing. If you’re attending USEF shows, does that still make you eligible for investigation? Talk about a double edged sword: certainly it would be a big loophole allowing potentially dangerous parties to remain active in USEF. But on the other hand, if anyone who has ever participated in a USEF affiliated show is eligible to investigation, that could create quite the mess of allegations. There is usually verbiage on the entry form that everyone competing must abide by USEF rules, so I would assume that now includes SafeSport and the latter example might be true.

I’m just musing over the situation at this point, not trying to make any argument. I also haven’t had any caffeine yet, so my musings might be incoherent. :lol:

[BigMama1]

@Farhills123

I stand with the victims. I have known GM since I was 9 years old. He is a brilliant coach, a master. He is also an incredible judge of people and a master manipulator, which is one of the reason why he can get the most out of his students. He is charming, he is funny, he can talk about just about any topic. He loves to travel and meet new and interesting people. I am now 42 years old and I last saw George about 4 years ago, we spent a few nights catching up at a weekend away with some horse friends and he helped me with my horse, got on him and jumped him around. It was wonderful.
Having said all that I must point out something which I am so surprised no one seems to have noticed. In his very own book he talks several times about how he has two sides to his personality. He discusses his wild party days, how he would go off the rails in the 70s and blow off steam after the horse show. There is a professional, very ‘grown up’ side to GM and there is a childish, petulant - what he would call ‘naughty’ side to him as well. He talks about those wild days to his friends often.

I did not actually train with GM, my mother wouldnt let me. I trained with his assistant coaches and did the equitation, not the jumpers. I did not witness anything but there have ALWAYS been - from the time I was a child until most recently a few years ago - much much younger boys /men around him. As he got older they were more ‘boy toys’ - definitely over the age of 18 but always way way younger than George himself.

His reach into the sport is extraordinary. Go back and read his book. With the exception of Missy and Andre (although Andre’s mentor was Judy Richter who has a long and close relationship with GM) - anyway, his ‘reach’ into the big name trainers and helping put them on the map in some way or other is why he is being defended / protected (call it what you will). He has doled out favours his entire career. He is not Santa and has never professed to be so. He has calmed down in his elderly age but believe me - in the 70s and 80s and most of the early 90s - if you were called on by George to do something, no matter how old you were - you did it.

Imagine having that kind of power and then imagine a teenage boy going to live with him. He had teenage boys living with him all throughout his years at Hunterdon. And whatever happened in that house (and I am not saying this was Jeffrey Epstein, mind you, I am not saying that at all), but can’t we all admit that there is an enormous power dynamic there just waiting to be exploited?
And then look at his protégées - his students, Let’s see. And in no particular order. Bill Cooney. Who had a relationship with Frank Madden who was a junior at the time. Frank who then went on to have a relationship with Stacia Madden who was a junior. And then went on to have another relationship with a junior. All of that is absolutely well known.

And then there are his other protégées which I think are noticeable for their ABSENCE in his book - Conrad. Ray Texel. Where are they in standing up for him? What did they see or experience?

I am a woman. I could very easily write something like Katie did - I never witnessed anything. He has been nothing but wonderful and supportive of my riding. My grandmother, mother and myself have known GM. My grandmother told me stories of GM when he quite riding and worked in NYC as an actor. That is how far back we go. I have never witnessed anything inappropriate myself but there have always been rumours.

Candice King, Molly Ashe, Katie Prudent. They can all stand up for George. But my darlings, you are women and you are not George’s cup of tea.

I stand for the victims.

Safe sport has many flaws but this has been in the works for a couple years. The public may be surprised but EVERYONE who is anyone in the horse community has known about this investigation. The investigation has concluded and he has been found guilty.

It is a sad sad week for our sport.

He is and always will be an amazing teacher, a “teacher’s teacher”. A huge guiding force in our sport for 50 + years. It is upsetting even for me to see him stripped of all that because he is VERY GOOD AT HIS JOB.

But people are complex and they are more than just one thing. And I encourage everyone to re-read his book with new eyes and take a breathe and try and take the great things he has taught us about horses and riding, but please recognise that there are victimS here. I believe the safe sport board would not have found him guilty without real proof. I really do. No one wants this to happen to our sport. It is a sad day for everyone involved.

Thank you for injecting a voice of reason into the hysteria

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@hoopoe

agree. I have been on COTH many years and this post stands out a mile for its thoughtful, well considered voice. Please stay a friend and share as a part of our community

@Farhills123 - I think the tag didn’t work earlier.

And I agree - a thoughtful, important post.

[fargaloo]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I do not know Mr. Soresi, nor do I condone the possession of child porn for any reason… but I am willing to say I Stand with him. He was once a 13 year old boy who lost his father at the age of 6.

I’m no psychologist but even I know that people who are sexually abused as children are frequently attracted to child porn as adults. It doesn’t take a lot of imagination to understand why that might be.

We are all responsible for choices we make as adults, but I completely agree that compassion is in order as the story about Soresi becomes clearer.

[dannyboy]

GM is scheduled to be at the National Sporting Library in Middleburg in September

Hear legendary trainer and equestrian George Morris speak at NSLM! Morris will be reading from his personal collection of riding books, including his own annotations and anecdotes.

That puts the NSLM in a rather awkward position. I’d love to hear some of those anecdotes. I’m sure the tickets are long sold out and besides, I wouldn’t pay for them, but now I wonder if it will actually go forward. I suppose it depends on the status of the appeal at that time.

Actually, I heard him once before when he talked on about “penis power” and how boys had an edge in the eq because there were fewer of them.