https://www.npr.org/podcasts/510326/believed
Everyone needs to listen, sorry if it has been posted I couldn’t remember. Someone shared on FB and wow, its pretty eye opening to how abuse is covered up.
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From the code:
“All allegations of child physical or sexual abuse will be reported to law enforcement authorities”
To be fair, it might been seen as a bit weird we’ve all written 80 something pages of debate.
Sometimes I ask myself why I care so much. I don’t even live in the US anymore, but used to compete with USEF… I’ve heard people whisper about loads of people in the horse world and some other sports, and wondered why no one ever took a stand or said anything outside of tongue wagging to other peons. But also having had a predator in my own family (protected by a load of the family and their work for the police)… this sort of thing really touches a nerve.
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Oh, I see! I thought you were referring to the article and quote by some Tryon representative with a crafted and defensive answer given to a journalist. Sorry if this was not you and the link was not in you post.
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Worse (or maybe just more specifically): What is will mean at this point (or when Morris loses his appeal, if he does) is that this industry as a whole is willing to overlook pedophilia within its ranks. I think this is the reason that Jimmy Williams’ named needed to be removed from arenas and awards. There’s just no way to have that name signify “great horseman” without the new and recent codicil of his crimes.
The AHSA/USEF has a bit of a history of tolerating “bad” until the reek is so bad that the public at large might know about it. That’s true for the bans of past horse-killing pros; that’s true for some pretty big horse drugging cases. I don’t think the GHM issue and this cultural/political moment will allow the USEF to maintain that impervious, elitist “meh… we will do what we want to in our club, public perception be damned” stance that it has enjoyed in the past.
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There are plenty of good trainers that have not molested children and have not been abusive to horses or humans over the course of decades. GM has destroyed the lives of the people he abused. They are dead or in jail or convicted felons with kiddie porn problems.
I don’t know how supporting George Morris or attending a clinic in the future could even be a question.
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Today’s news in New York is that they are suspending the statute of limitations on old molestation claims, victims have one year to file! I wonder if other states will follow suit and if this will allow more victims of GM to come forward.
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There is a new bill that is planned to be introduced tomorrow that increases the accountability of the NGB. They determined NGB turned a blind-eye to abuse for too long.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/2019/07/30/olympic-scandal-bipartisan-bill-would-overhaul-oversight-after-nassar/1864097001/?fbclid=IwAR2o02yeNsVQ47yoRx9-plnsEhIQS68oBpXOzZi9B446wvMh8HmbrCasns4
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Not a legal scholar or nuthin’, but can one argue that the Sherman Anti-Trust Act, written in 1890 or so and dealing with entities like Standard Oil in a very, very unregulated economy… with just as much poverty being created for the many as wealth was being created for the few was:
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Never written with the intention of keeping pedophiles from the kind of commerce that inherently involves contact with children?
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Is not the right instrument to be used for interpreting the relationship between an organization like the USEF (which is compelled by SafeSport) and its professional members?
As I understand it, (I think), it’s a big of a heavy lift to reframe the precedent or “interpretive habit” of deciding that a past statute written for some other purpose and extended to a new and present case isn’t the right legislative arena or lens for handling this new one.
Sorry I haven’t written more clearly. I’m not sure I understand the legal reasoning enough to do better. Again, sorry! But I think it’s worth considering the legal basis for all this.
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It will be interesting to see if the junior division numbers are affected, so as to reduce the possibility of future SS allegations.
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Sorry, I don’t understand what you’re saying. Can you explain what you mean?
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It’s pretty easy for me: I don’t reward unconscionable behavior. Full stop.
Look, I haven’t been in a spot where I desperately needed the help of Paul Valliere or where George Morris was the only horseman who could help me. But I think it’s part of being an adult to take the action I can to defend my values. So there is no weighing the pros and cons in my mind. I am clear about that stopped wildly unethical behavior (or doing my part in that) trumps my wanting to get something related to my sport. I’ll find another way or I’ll go without. But I won’t co-sign killing horses for insurance money or molesting children so that I can have fun. Not a hard decision.
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The way that the NGBs get bonuses for winning medals and get hurt for funding when they don’t is likely a big part of the problem. It doesn’t seem like the bill addresses this and I think it would go a long way to promoting more ethical behavior. Understand it’s not just that money is nice, but those funds end up supporting basic functions - ie people - and so you add to the obvious dilemma, “if I report this, and we don’t get a medal because of that, who here in the office will have to be laid off?” When you have a clear cut case of abuse, the answer should still be obvious, but as we’ve noted here, often it’s the frog-in-boiling-water problem - all they have is an inkling, a rumor, maybe not clear evidence that Something’s Not Right. Building a funding bonus metric that is say based on a new criterion - maybe grassroots participants, maybe elite participants, maybe accident-free hours of sport, whatever - could help change a lot.
Also, for what it’s worth, the count of posts per page is configurable. For me we’re only on page 42. 
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I would quadruple like this if I could. And every trainer who has stuck up for him with morale outrage about the safesport process is off my clinic/trainer list as well.
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none of that is very relevant to how it is used now, repeatedly, to regulate the processes of associations. the law consists not just of statute, but of the precedent that evolves over time. Much has happened since that law was enacted, as you say. The Sherman Act has been used to do all sorts of things that were never imagined at the time. So have many other statutes. Even bigger, who would have thought when the original Constitution was enacted that it would do a great many of the things that it has done, starting with substantive due process onward? For one example, that gay marriage is a constitutional right, or that you couldn’t have prayer in schools? That they weren’t envisioned at the time doesn’t make those rulings wrong or invalid. We have a common law system, it is set up with the capacity for change and evolution.
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@mvp I should probably also point out that the Sherman Act, in particular, has always been subject to a great deal of interpretation. On its face, it makes illegal “agreements in restraint of trade.” Technically speaking, it was quickly determined that ANY contract, even a very legitimate one, restrains trade. So it was a short and rather immediate step to reading that as “unreasonable” restraints of trade, because Congress surely couldn’t have meant to outlaw all contracts. And we all know how what is “reasonable” is subject to a LOT of interpretation! You can see why the law is a bit of a muddle and covers a very wide range of activities.
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Do we have a consolidated list of pros that are supporting GM on their special FB page? I’m busy pruning my FB friends list of the ones I know about.
I lost respect for RD when I met him in Germany at a show just before the Seoul Olympics. He was very rude to folks who apporached him to show their support of him. Not a “big name” yet and was having regular meltdowns at shows because he was having trouble with the stress of showing.
MW was caught in Aachen with plastic splinters in his horses splint boots when the ring steward checked them and he was barred from competing. No respect for him either.
I know it was just a matter of time before someone set up a legal defense fund for GM. The histrionics of the pros supporting him is amazing. They need to educate themselves before they decide SS is awful.
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The more I learn about the depth of the gymnastics cover-up at the highest levels, the more worried I become about what lies beneath at the USEF headquarters. I’ve been listening to a lot of gymnastics podcasts the last month (can you tell I have a long barn commute?) and the USAG is in a LOT of hot water. They almost lost their USOC certification over the winter; I had no idea. I really fear we may be next on the chopping block if we don’t get our act together as a sport.
For those of you wondering why some of us care so much, for me it’s multifaceted.
First, and most importantly, I care about keeping vulnerable people safe. That means survivors of all stripes, kids/teens, adults in situations where it’s easier for people in power to take advantage of them (grooms/working students/assistants, etc.)…and on. So many of us use the barn as a refuge—those of us who capable ought to do what we can to ensure it’s as safe as possible. I want to show survivors that we care about them and believe them, and I want to show abusers that there is no place for their predatory behavior in our community. Taking a public stand in this case is a small way to contribute to that goal, but small actions can add up to big results.
Second, I care about the sport’s longevity. We will not survive if we continue to make excuses and look the other way on the subject of abuse. The world is changing (for the better, in my mind) and we will absolutely get left in the dirt if we don’t change with it. I forget where I read this but the phrasing stuck with me—in the 50s and 60s, young girls saved horse sports in the US. Society went through a massive shift then too, and horses as livestock became pretty much obsolete. But girls fell in love with the animal and the sport shifted to accommodate, and that’s what allowed it to survive. If we want future generations to be able to enjoy this sport, we have to make cultural changes.
If we stay on the track we’ve been on of making excuses for abuse or even just “run-of-the-mill” inappropriate behavior, USEF will get kicked out of the USOC eventually. US kids won’t get to experience the awe of watching our best horses and riders competing on the biggest international stage there is. Parents will stop wanting to bring their kids to lesson barns, in the same way that many are steering their kids away from football or gymnastics now. We’re hanging by a thread as it is; we can’t afford to add another black mark against ourselves.
This will get worse before it can get better. We’re at the beginning of the reckoning, and there will be many more “old” reports coming out. How we as a community respond to the early revelations will dictate whether those currently being abused feel like they can come forward or not.
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The whole world was different for baby boomers and earlier. Initiation into sexual activity was very different. Sex was not flaunted into everyone’s face all the time. Popular music wasn’t about sex, but romantic love; books and movies that were overtly sexual were banned, and only read in hiding. America still believed in a culture of self-reliance, and it was up to the individual to learn to protect him or her self. Growing up was the process of learning to be independent. There were all sorts of more or less accepted behaviors, like “playing doctor”, learning about the physical differences between boys and girls, and sexual behaviors, when older, that didn’t end up with penetration. Boys were completely unprotected in laws on sexual conduct; in fact, boys who were initiated into sex by an older adult were considered lucky. Sometimes this was with prostitutes, and sometimes not. Mental consequences were not considered if there was no physical harm, and, often, without physical harm conduct wasn’t considered worth talking about. All of this changed with the pill for women and the acceptance of homosexuality for men.
Traditionally, males are/have always been the initiators of activity leading to the sex act, one suspects because of the ever present risk of pregnancy. Women’s sexuality was repressed for the same reason. Out of wedlock children have condemned the woman to ostracism by most cultures throughout history. As as been generally recognized, marriage was not about sex but about property and continuing the male line. Woman was just a womb and a vehicle for satisfying male sexual and financial needs. Any love followed marriage and rarely preceded it. The world was simply different.
And, let’s face it, physically, the need for sexual release is very different for men and women.
We are at a point in time where, in about sixty years, we are changing human culture that has been almost universal for thousands of years. Fallout is inevitable.
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