George Morris on the SS list

[goodmorning]

Yes, let’s leave a man who brags about sleeping with 10,000+ people and taking minors to Studio 54 up on the arenas. He’s been under investigation since 2012! Let’s not forget that.

Like it or not, enforced or not, GM has broken numerous laws and has to pay the price. Legality is not our moral compass. SS can finally attempt to right the wrong here. He’s been quite brazen, as most men who think they are untouchable are. His past will never catch up with him…but it should. A lifetime ban is a slap on the wrist.

[mkevent]

I just wonder if many of the people in the ISWG have bothered to do any investigations beyond talking to some barn friends or reading a few articles before joining that group.

This thread is now at 82 pages. It takes a determined individual to read that much background vs listening to a few friend/colleagues spout their opinions and then echo that.

[Denali6298]

@mkevent

I just wonder if many of the people in the ISWG have bothered to do any investigations beyond talking to some barn friends or reading a few articles before joining that group.

This thread is now at 82 pages. It takes a determined individual to read that much background vs listening to a few friend/colleagues spout their opinions and then echo that.

There are three possibilities. A) They have not looked beyond the barn. B) They have and still don’t care. Or C) They did read and investigate but have zero clue about anything that doesn’t involve horses.

I am sure people have been reading this thread and keeping up. Just not posting. I’ve seen several CoTHers post “I Stand With George.” Not sure if they joined the group or not.

I also find these groups interesting because they are closed. If one is so sure of their opinion why have a closed group?

[TooManyBays]

This thread got so long so fast.
Anything new come out since The NY Times article?
I haven’t seen anything, but I try not to follow Facebook to closely.
Sorry, but I swear last time I looked this thread was only 40 pages!

[snaffle635]

I have a question about the duality of coach and pedophile.

As as a coach, can we assume the abuser wants their students to win? And to win, wouldn’t the student have a better chance of winning if not being abused? (The strength of survivors is truly awe inspiring - how these kids perform at the top levels of their sport while suffering abuse from the very people who are cheering them on is beyond my comprehension.)

How does an abuser reconcile those seemingly conflicting positions of coach and abuser?

In reading about GM I am reminded of the podcast about Larry Nassar called Believed. It seems Nassar never believed he was causing harm to those he abused. For those with more knowledge on the subject, is this common thinking of abusers?

It’s interesting to compare and contrast LN and GM. LN ingratiated himself with the entire community in order to build trust and gain access to kids. He was so beloved that people didn’t believe their own kids who reported his abuse. Yet from the little I’ve read of GM (his book has been sitting on my bookcase unread for years - and now I’m debating whether to read it or throw it away) GM seemed the opposite of LM - openly bullying people, living a wild lifestyle, and being constantly surrounded by rumors.

[Irish_Ei_s]

Leave his name up as a burning reminder to all who choose this business.

[chisamba]

@arnikalm

It is only in the US that sports are so overblown. In Europe, in eastern Asia as well as many other western countries, academics are what is focused on and sports are for fun and exercise. Sports are so important here due to lack of access to colleges by the poor. They see sports scholarships as their only chance. When you can’t afford university and you don’t have family money, parents push their children into sports, at the expense of their academics.

Unmitigated poppycock.

[Synthesis]

The whole situation hurts my heart and my head

Do I stand with George? No, I stand with those who stand up as survivors.

Do i I regret what I learned in his clinic when I had the opportunity to attend as a rider and watcher? No, he is a master horseman and teacher. That experience has been priceless in my development as an adult rider.

Would i I attend one again now? I don’t think I even know the answer

How do I balance a wealth of knowledge against the disclosure (not whispers) that he has done some very bad things? How do I process that the very things that make him such a skilled horseman and teacher also helped him do the things he has been investigated as doing?

We all have lost. The survivors, GM, the equestrian community, all of us have lost and there are no winner here. My heart breaks for all.

[dannyboy]

As of the present day, a number of states still have anti-sodomy laws on the books. Some differentiate between homo and hetero sexual sodomy. However, because of a Supreme Court decision in 2003, these laws are essentially unenforceable, but have never been formally repealed.

[comingback]

@541hunter

I just finished Believed, NPR’s EXCELLENT in-depth podcast on the Nassar case. I highly recommend it if you can stomach it. They did a great job of illustrating how beloved he was, and how hard it was for even some of the survivors to come around to the idea that he was a predator. A lot of it rang very familiar.

I finished this over the weekend. I recommend it as well for anyone who asks the questions, “why didn’t you report it?” or “where were the parents?” or “why did you wait so long to report it?”

If you’ve not been the victim of inappropriate behavior, you really cannot appreciate what victims experience, in my opinion.

[Denali6298]

@Synthesis

The whole situation hurts my heart and my head

Do I stand with George? No, I stand with those who stand up as survivors.

Do i I regret what I learned in his clinic when I had the opportunity to attend as a rider and watcher? No, he is a master horseman and teacher. That experience has been priceless in my development as an adult rider.

Would i I attend one again now? I don’t think I even know the answer

How do I balance a wealth of knowledge against the disclosure (not whispers) that he has done some very bad things? How do I process that the very things that make him such a skilled horseman and teacher also helped him do the things he has been investigated as doing?

We all have lost. The survivors, GM, the equestrian community, all of us have lost and there are no winner here. My heart breaks for all.

I love your post. You are absolutely right we’ve all lost.

How I deal with it and how I make my decision is we can get the knowledge elsewhere. I had a supervisor and mentor get thrown in jail for similar acts although they were much worse. I can get that professional knowledge else where. Same with riding. Might it take longer? Might it be not as good? Maybe. I will not sacrifice my moral compass for knowledge concerning work. I absolutely won’t do it for a sport.

[fordtraktor]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Yup. The “other” SS, “star chamber”, the “Salem witch trials”, “McCarthyism”, etc etc

@fordtraktor has brought up some interesting points about a possible legal challenge to Safe Sport via the Sherman Act. It would amount to an unfair restriction of trade though, and it’s not a simple or easy case. I only grasp the basic theory behind this because of a background ion Macroeconomics, and studying the Sherman Act in detail in two different classes in terms of economic situations that gave rise to it.

But all these other INSANE comparisons to really ugly parts of history involving totalitarianism and human rights abuses, fascist governments, etc? This is absurd. People need to get a grip.

Thank you. Just to be completely clear to everyone, my posts about the Sherman Act have been informational, to clarify mistakes about future procedural options that both sides make regularly.

By by no means are they a defense in this particular case, or an “I Stand With George” declaration. That shouldn’t have to be said, but I just don’t want anyone getting the wrong impression when emotions are running high and there’s a lot of info to process.

[Mia_Sorella]

@Bristol Bay Thank you. I struggled with whether to share that story as I’m sure it is an agonizing read for some parents who thought they were providing their child with an incredible opportunity with the best of intentions.

Horses and horse sport continues to be an incredibly positive and healing influence in my life. As others have pointed out, the fervent supporters of GHM seem to have lost site of the fact that the whole point of SafeSport is to try to make all children’s experience of whatever sport they choose equally positive and to give participants the tools to identify and stop abusers before they hurt more children. I’d like to think that deep down we all want the same thing.

I did go back and edit some typos in my original post. If you need to inject a little humanity into the discussion elsewhere or give a textbook example of why we need SafeSport, please feel free to copy and share.

[Bluey]

Just found this thread a few days ago, have not read but the latest pages.
Still trying to digest all that.

My question is, if SS has been investigating for two years as told and has enough proof to ban as they have, since abusing kids is and has always been against existing laws, was the police notified?

Such abusers are jailed when found out, as the media reports.
There are several such stories ongoing right now.
How come GM is not in jail, or is he?
I may have missed that in all these pages.

They just had a story on CBS news with a new law in NYS starting August 14 where anyone that any time was abused has one year to file about it.

Those in NYS may want to check into that.

[ladyj79]

@Bluey

Just found this thread a few days ago, have not read but the latest pages.
Still trying to digest all that.

My question is, if SS has been investigating for two years as told and has enough proof to ban as they have, since abusing kids is and has always been against existing laws, was the police notified?

Such abusers are jailed when found out, as the media reports.
There are several such stories ongoing right now.
How come GM is not in jail, or is he?
I may have missed that in all these pages.

They just had a story on CBS news with a new law in NYS starting August 14 where anyone that any time was abused has one year to file about it.

Those in NYS may want to check into that.

Statute of limitations prevents recourse for many.

There are myriad other reasons why sexual predators can and do avoid being held legally responsible for their actions.

[Bluey]

@ladyj79

Statute of limitations prevents recourse for many.

There are myriad other reasons why sexual predators can and do avoid being held legally responsible for their actions.

Sure, I read about those reasons.

Then, once enough to ban, I would think there is enough to call the police also?

Obviously not, if this situation is not there, or not yet.

Thank you for your explanation.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@snaffle635 That’s such an interesting point, because I always assumed that if George Morris fell afoul of changing standards, it would have been because of his bullying coaching, not anything sexual. Combined with the fact that any jokes I personally heard about his romantic life were always in the context of men who were of age (i.e., stuff like, “I bet he has a hot, twentysomething Brazilian boyfriend”), I never thought anything like this was in his past. Which makes me wonder if the appearance of candor in his autobiography was a case of hiding in plain sight.

[omare]

And the sherman act appears to only prohibits unreasonable retrictiion on commerce. Assuming such a ban is a restriction and it is challenged under that Act, the purpose of ss on its face is reasonable one would argue. While laws may not always be drafted so as to avoid conflict w other statutes and the Consitution, it was most likely all considered in the drafting of this bipartisan bill.

[Dorito]

@Bluey

My question is, if SS has been investigating for two years as told and has enough proof to ban as they have, since abusing kids is and has always been against existing laws, was the police notified?

Such abusers are jailed when found out, as the media reports.
There are several such stories ongoing right now.
How come GM is not in jail, or is he?
I may have missed that in all these pages.

According to SafeSport policy “All allegations of child physical or sexual abuse will be reported to law enforcement authorities and the Center.”

I think it’s safe to assume the allegations have been reported, but there are many reasons why the accused may not be in jail, including, but not limited to:

the statute of limitations is up
the case is still under investigation
the victims may not be cooperative with law enforcement

[Keep_it_Simple]

@Bluey

Sure, I read about those reasons.

Then, once enough to ban, I would think there is enough to call the police also?

Obviously not, if this situation is not there, or not yet.

Thank you for your explanation.

If you report an incident of sexual misconduct with a minor, SafeSport representatives tell you they need to report it to the police. This doesn’t mean the police will act on it; that is the responsibility of the police. Depending on where the alleged abuse occurred, the police may not have the manpower to assign someone, or the parties no longer live in the town/state. The world doesn’t operate like TV shows (although sometimes we think it should). If the parties have moved away, what action should the police take beyond filing the report they receive from SS?