George Morris

[fair_judy]

[QUOTE=lauriep;3678736]
I would like to hear from one of his old Hunterdon students, not a clinic attender, that this is what was taught and that it was not a step in the progression. I listened to him for years in the schooling area and during lessons, and never heard him say the crest release was anything but a tool. And his kids that won the Medal way back when sure didn’t use it to win.

Having said that, he will also tell you that at the lower levels, and in many circumstances, it is a perfectly acceptable release. But NEVER for an advanced rider on a trained horse.[/QUOTE]

laurie, having ridden with the man in both situations, clinic 4x per year for two years, and two years showing ( a LONG time ago) i can say with absolute clarity that the crest release was NEVER anything but a tool in progression. clones came along with their versions of george, and bastardized its meaning, corrupting the purpose.

i do recall being privileged to listen to a conversation between rwm and george in which they both lamented the road the crest release had taken. neither expected the frankenstein which the method created. neither was happy with the fact that the equitation division had become a DIVISION. they commented that if the jumps were raised to 4’ that nearly every competitor in the finals would most certainly have rails, at the very least, by pulling their horses out of the air.

this industry started coddling riders, and creating multiple divisions for horses which could not compete at the height required. the crest release which started as a learning tool was naturally phased out before there were So Many Excuses for not stepping up and RIDING. we regularly rode over the huge course in the field at old mill in the late 1960’s. we jumped our hunters over the cross country obstacles, and competed over outside curses in horse shows. now, unless it is a hunter classic in the grand prix ring at wef, there is never , ever a chance to be truly brilliant, IMO. it was formerly impossible to negotiate a course where juniors could land over the last jump in a line and do the “bobble head butt wiggle” mannerisms and leave their hands on the horses neck until they were five strides away from the jump.

you had to ride those tb nags:D.

[Alagirl]

@findeight;3680176

bad alagirl, bad girl. What a visual.

innocent eyeroll

who me?

But I see you got my way of thinking! :lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

[Foxtrot_s]

I see Material Girl joined COTH just to bash GM. All opinions are welcome on this board
but it is interesting to see how many first timers come on to give negative views. If you could give your specific reasons, it would help the discussion. Myself, I have the utmost respect for the man but would be far to timid to take a clinic from him. My daughter, she’s tough enough and loves him. You get more bees with honey than vinegar.

However, while she started a la GM in equitation, etc. she’s taken a lot of lessons and rides in Europe, so like Bluey, there is a bit of a mix in styles. Comes from riding a bit defensive on lots of different horses (jumpers).

[Material_Girl]

My reasons are pretty simple: His grandstanding detracts from his ability to help his students. I’ve seen him give a few clinics, seen him get students ready for their round and in every case I’m certain I could have done a better job for those riders on those days (and I am far from being an important or even accomplished trainer). No matter how good you are, no matter how much you know, you’re doing a lousy job if its all about you.

George is the pits. Sucking up only prolongs his agony. Ignore him and maybe he will go away.

[MHM]

[QUOTE=Material Girl;3682973]
My reasons are pretty simple: His grandstanding detracts from his ability to help his students. I’ve seen him give a few clinics, seen him get students ready for their round and in every case I’m certain I could have done a better job for those riders on those days (and I am far from being an important or even accomplished trainer). No matter how good you are, no matter how much you know, you’re doing a lousy job if its all about you.

George is the pits. Sucking up only prolongs his agony. Ignore him and maybe he will go away.[/QUOTE]

Really? You could have gotten better results than team gold at the last two Olympics? Do tell. :rolleyes:

And he’s obviously just a flash in the pan. He’s only been on the scene for the last 50 years or so.

[Material_Girl]

What makes you think I was at the Olympics?

[shade]

[QUOTE=Material Girl;3683109]
What makes you think I was at the Olympics?[/QUOTE]

Ok now that was funny

[Foxtrot_s]

What on earth did he do to you? Must have been pretty bad.

[MHM]

[QUOTE=Material Girl;3683109]
What makes you think I was at the Olympics?[/QUOTE]

Certainly nothing you’ve posted here.

Note to self- do not feed the trolls. Even on Thanksgiving, do not feed the trolls.

[Material_Girl]

Especially not on Thanksgiving.

You’ll be back at it by Friday though.

[IveGotRhythm]

[QUOTE=Material Girl;3682973]
Ignore him and maybe he will go away.[/QUOTE]

Words to live by.

Happy Thanksgiving!

[Material_Girl]

Live by the word, dye by the syllable.

Predictably, this topic has become all about me and not at all about Mr Rust (in-his) Breeches, Georgie Poo Poo.

If you really want to know about me, send a PM. Thanks.

Otherwise, please contine with the uniform uninformed praise for jackass #1 of the equestrain horse jumping world so I can re-correct you all. thnaks

[Paragon]

I had a clinic with a barely-BNT from Kentucky last spring. I overheard a local trainer say to him before the clinic that Rider X was on a trial horse, but Rider X was reluctant to purchase. Clinician was asked to pay special attention to Rider X and say all kinds of good things, to try and nudge Rider X toward purchasing.

It worked. Clinician did so, Rider X bought the horse, and the local trainer got a tidy commission. The rest of us were shorted on our clinic, in Clinician’s haste to compliment the pants off this mediocre rider.

Contrasted with my experiences with unscrupulous, deceptive trainers, the stories about George make me more than a little jealous. The idea of finding honesty in this industry, somewhere amid the bullshittery, is delightful. Give me a harsh trainer over a coddler any day.

[tikidoc]

Oh, how short our memories are. I lost much of my respect for GM when the following happened.

http://www.chronicleforums.com/Forum/archive/index.php/t-35814.html

I find it interesting that everyone continues to bow to the god that is George Morris yet there has been no mention of this incident, especially in light of the current thread about forgiving or not forgiving Amy Tryon. I have been told by several others that there have actually been two incidents involving GM and the death of a horse via metal pipe but I cannot find confirmation of this with a cursory attempt at research. Only the one in Palm Beach in 2000.

I said it before. I respect his knowledge and abilities. But his teaching methods, and at least some training methods he has used in the past (see link above), not so much.

[War_Admiral]

Tikidoc raises a valid point.

I do respect him as an instructor, as a clinician, as chef d’equipe - abundantly so.

But would I send a horse to him? Probably not…

[Dispatcher]

I think the issues here are his personality, NOT his expertise as a rider/instructor.

It’s abundantly clear he is an accomplished rider. That has nothing to do with how he acts and behaves with humans.

Those who he has helped seem to love him. Those who observe his behavior, not so much. I’m sure those who know him personaly have way different views than those who don’t. But, hey, when you are in the limelight, that’s what happens. He doesn’t belong on a pedestal. He’s just a person very successful in his line of work.

[fair_judy]

sounds to me like material girl has a madonna complex. did the big bad george hurt its little feelings?:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:.

[findeight]

Or it’s jealous we post about him instead of her. He is no God for sure, not worthy of worship but we usually talk about instructing and proper schooling. Something in short supply in the so called Pro ranks these days. The pipe was a accident with something commonly used whether you want to admit it or not.

Back under the bridge you go. Or back Under the Bus.

[tikidoc]

[QUOTE=findeight;3684313]
The pipe was a accident with something commonly used whether you want to admit it or not.[/QUOTE]

Commonly used does not make it right, and it is obviously not safe. It may have be common in some circles, but I would certainly never participate if a trainer, even GM, told me to take a jump made with a metal pipe. My horse’s safety takes priority.

There are many things on which I agree with GM (all the stuff about the progression from crest to automatic releases for example). He is a very talented horseman. He has a huge amount of knowledge, and I have read and learned from both his books and his articles and columns. But I still do not agree with his teaching methods and some training methods.

To be clear, I do not want to be coddled by a trainer. I want to know what I am doing wrong and how to make it better. But I also want to feel comfortable asking questions and discussing the “whys” of their suggestions. And I do not learn better being insulted. I get flustered and am less likely to be able to correct things, which can become a vicious circle. As I get older, I have also become much less tolerant of that type of behavior. For the record, I have not taken a clinic from GM. I have seen some videos, and used to ride with a trainer was in GM’s barn for a number of years.

I also have a problem with his weight comments that he has made in the past. I agree, very heavy people should try to lose weight and would likely be more effective riders if they were lighter. They should be careful to choose appropriate mounts. BUT there are many riders who are above their optimal weight who are effective riders nonetheless. And I remember columns from years past where he was critical of the weight of normal or very minimally overweight riders. This does not promote healthy eating, it promotes eating disorders.

As an aside, I was also surprised to see what a hottie he was as a young man. I had no idea!

[Bluey]

—“There are many things on which I agree with GM (all the stuff about the progression from crest to automatic releases for example). He is a very talented horseman. He has a huge amount of knowledge, and I have read and learned from both his books and his articles and columns. But I still do not agree with his teaching methods and some training methods.”—

I don’t agree that a crest release should be a regular part of any training progression.
It has been traditionally used only for a very few students that just didn’t seem to be able to have a good, independent seat but wanted to jump and were borderline qualified to do so, as a crutch for a very little.

GM and others after him made it part of a regular training progression for all students.
Absolutely not necessary, as all those many other jumpers out there but the USA ones can attest to.

Different is not incorrect, just debatable as how effective that step may be for ALL riders to have to go thru it and the many that seem to have been stuck in it.