Is anyone still breeding Georgian Grande with draft blood? It seems the focus has shifted from clydes and belgians to friesians crossed with saddlebreds. I understand the thought process, but I still really like some of those saddlebred/draft crosses I’ve seen/worked with.
Didn’t the one family who was breeding these horses go off to jail? A child custody dispute, IIRC?
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Doing a Google search, yes, there are breeders doing draft/Saddlebred crosses - besides Flying W Farms. FWF will be the main breeder to use that designation because the husband created the registry. And apparently Flying W Farms is still in business, and is still breeding a huge assortment of horses - I looked them up too.
If you go to Dream Horse or some of those other ad websites, you can search by breed or look at draft crosses - they are out there…
Well the matriarch is still around but her son and his entire family- wife and 2 sons- are currently in jail awaiting trial for the
murders of 8 family members of their son’s GF’s family. Yes a custody dispute pre-empted the murders.
The Patriarch, elderly George, passed away a year or so ago. Not sure the family is breeding much these days unless they still have some older horses available.
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My friend has a Saddlebred Friesian Cross. Lovely mare. She bred her mare to an Andalusian stallion and had a lovely buckskin filly. Both are rather calm, non-spooky, and brave. She works all the time and is only a sporadic rider and both horses are excellent when she decides to randomly go on a camping trip. The young one is just being started under saddle.
I do not believe either are registered, but she doesn’t show. She likes having a beautiful horse, and you can’t ride papers.
I’ve worked with some draft/saddlebred crosses and they are almost always fun, amateur friendly horses. So why did they fade away? I think that there is a market for these horses that don’t cost $$$$$$ – is it just that the driving force behind it (FWF) had issues?
A lot of trainers poo-pooed the idea of this cross and that FWF sold a lot of these crosses so there may have been some
professional jealousy involved.
Someone bought a young one and brought it to the boarding barn just as I was leaving so I don’t know how successful they were in showing. Over the years FWF bred and sold a slew of horses.
I think the FWF owners aged out of breeding and the son who was involved may possibly go to prison for life if convicted.
…there must be a book in this story sometime…
Friesian crosses tend to also have fabulous ammy-friendly temperaments. My theory on why you see less and less of these kinds of horses - it costs way too much to breed, raise, and get a horse well started. I bred for about 20 years - nice moving horses with excellent temperaments (Friesian crosses). Competitive at the lower levels, and for those who could afford the training - competitive at the mid and higher levels (last year, two of my “kids” were USDF Region 7 Champions at 2nd and 3rd levels, and Equitation). My point - fun, capable horses that are nice enough to be compeitive.
Most AA riders want a horse who is at least schooling first/2nd level AND has a show record. And they want this for under $15k if it isn’t a Warmblood. If it is a Warmblood, all of a sudden, the budget doubles (or triples). That is economically impossible to do.
Frederica (Flying W) had a huge crew of volunteers (it was all tied in to some kind of church her husband ran, I don’t know the details), so labor costs were minimal. Then all the horses were bred through live cover - a stallion out in a pasture with a herd for of mares - so vet costs were minimal. And they bred a TON of horses in the heyday - 30 or more babies each year. So it became economically feasible. Most people can’t/won’t use this business model.
As a result, you are seeing fewer and fewer of these nice, Ammy friendly, non-WB horses. There was a time when you could pick up a nice horse for a good price - FriesianX, DraftX, Appendix QH, ArabX, etc - those breeding programs are hitting a financial wall. It isn’t worth it anymore.
Costs went up, prices went down.
@MysticOakRanch I don’t disagree that Friesian crosses have excellent, ammy friendly temperments and are lovely movers. But to buy or breed to a Friesian seems to be a much higher priced endeavor than a belgian or clydesdale.
I have been considering trying to fill that gap in nice, ammy friendly non-WB horses – I guess this boils down to whether or not there is a demand for these types of horses. I understand that horse-keeping is not cheap, whether it’s a WB mare/foal or not. So I understand people choosing to breed the horses that will bring them a better ROI with the same amount of risk.
I think there IS a market for lower priced (lower than WBs) Ammy friendly, moderately sized (not 17h) sporthorses.
I think the right AQHA and APHA horses can do a heckuva job with that, crossed with the right TBs (there was a thread somewhere on “where has the Appendix gone”) if you want more Hunter types, or Arabians and Morgans (ie Lippit, that style, not the modern saddleseat style) if aiming more at the other sports.
The problem becomes as it always is in the US - how to market them. You need to be in the right area for enough people to make the trip to see the horses if desired, and you kinda need to market the heck out of them or at least have good connections to help there. And you do need your own property so you can lower the cost per horse in terms of keeping/raising it. IME it’s all those details that has kept the right, or enough people filling that need.
For some people it’s easier to breed their own horses for personal use, then to sell on the market. It would be cheaper to cross my mare with a warmblood, then go out and buy a warmblood. Although I’m considering crossing with a Connemara for something a bit smaller. I’m even considering Morgans, as they have a great deal of versatility and I never stick to one sport. But I have no idea what a Morgan cross can be registered as?
I haven’t ruled out buying something either.
There’s certainly a market for big horses. My concern with Warmbloods is they always seemed to have a slew of health/lameness issues, or poor hooves that needed shoes, or skin problems, or bug allergies.
I don’t think the market is good enough right now to support small time breeders- most of the people who breed have deep pockets and lots of land and can afford to breed more expensive warmbloods. Not that Friesians are cheap or less deserving.
This horse is stunning! But somehow I doubt his offspring will be affordable! I would love a smaller version of this horse.
http://www.threedayranch.com/images/TDR%20Sjoerds%20Wicked%20Cool%20Classic%20Champagne%20Georgiane%20Grande%20Friesian%20Saddlebred%20World%20Champion%20Stallion%203-13_001_small.jpg
That’s a pretty sweeping generalization, like saying all TBs have bad feed, or all chestnuts have skin problems, or all Arabians are flighty and spooky.
There are tons of WBs, including my own, who have fantastic feet, no general health issue, no weird lamenesses (barring outright injury, like mine), zero skin problems (when fed an appropriate diet), and definitely no bug allergies.
This horse is stunning! But somehow I doubt his offspring will be affordable! I would love a smaller version of this horse.
http://www.threedayranch.com/images/…_001_small.jpg
Once you start adding in fancy colors, prices do tend to go up, especially with an “exotic” breed like a GG. But there are lots of champagne QHs and Morgans for sale with reasonable price tags, under to well under $10k :yes:
He’s really not bred for sport - very cool looking horse, but those lines tend to be more “saddle seat” movers. Very nice horses, beautifully put together, just not dressage types. I do know of some breeders who have bred some lovely Friesian/ASB horses for sport. And yes, they are not cheap… The color is really cool too!
Most of the breeders don’t use Friesian MARES because of the cost! You are right. But there are some lovely Friesian stallions out there, and many are consistently producing good gaits and good temperaments. While one registry (FHANA) discourages cross breeding, the other registries allow it.
As you probably know, the stud fee is such a small part of bringing up a riding age horse. As for mares, Friesians cross very well with Morgans, ASBs, Warmbloods, Arabians, Iberian horses - they are a baroque style horse, and those do tend to cross well.
The biggest issue related to the market - an Ammy type horse needs to have training and a show record - and that gets really $$$$$.
I also think the move away from Draft blood was because the results were so much consistently better with Friesian blood…
Forrest Hill Farm is breeding draft crosses every year. They’re in Indiana. Worth checking them out.
