Geotextile for a riding ring???

[msj]

I’ve got a wonderfully built outdoor ring with a compacted clay base, tiled and graded BUT it hasn’t been used for yrs and has managed to become infested with weeds. I’ve just finished spraying it to kill them but I know from experience that they will come right back unfortunately.

I’m wondering if I could cover the ring after the weeds are dead (or appear to be anyway)with the geotextile fabric. Then put down about 4" or so of a fine stonedust and then hopefully drag it on a weekly basis to keep any more weeds from materializing and more importantly saving me from spending days spraying.

I’m thinking if you’re putting down the geotextile and covering it with stonedust for sacrifice paddocks it would work for the riding ring. I’d just have to set the drag so it didn’t go too deep as to dig up the geotextile.

Anyone have any thoughts on that??

[msj]

Hey come on folks. To date 91 readers and no thoughts to help?

[Guilherme]

As a rule geocloth is ti stabilize for erosion and help control runoff as opposed to being a “weed barrier.”

It might take three spray/mow cycles to get weeds under control.

Are you looking for a grass cover or a clay cover?

G.

[hosspuller]

I don’t believe 4 inches of dust or sand will protect the geotextile from horse hooves. You’ll find the fabric coming up. That’s the lesson I learned with geotextile at my gates. I didn’t have enough cover.

[ElementFarm]

I would worry about the fabric wrinkling over time or getting ripped (tractor, drag, or hooves) and then you’d have strips and pieces coming up, tripping you, and making future dragging/leveling impossible. I don’t speak from experience, that’s just my instinct, so take it for what it’s worth – nothing

[Calvincrowe]

Definitely not enough footing material on top of a the cloth to prevent your drag or hooves from contacting it. In a sacrifice paddock, like mine, 4-6" is good, since no drags are used, and most horses won’t dig that deep (though they do…to the detriment of the cloth!). In a ring, geocloth is used between the large gravel covered base and the middle layer of gravel and footing.

[Watermark_Farm]

I would absolutely NOT do that. Bad idea.

Remove existing footing, cap the clay base with a 1" layer of 1/4 by minus that’s rolled and compacted to 95%+ compaction rate, then add your new footing of ~2" (or a little less) angular sand with various particle sizes.

If you have ongoing weed issues you could also spray with Roundup pretty religiously until you get it under control.

[horsepoor]

[QUOTE=hosspuller;8234343]
I don’t believe 4 inches of dust or sand will protect the geotextile from horse hooves. You’ll find the fabric coming up. [/QUOTE]

^This. Horses would hit it, I would think, and the risk of grabbing it with the tractor, no matter how much care you take, would be too great. I also think you’d have to get the current area professionally compacted as well before laying the fabric. If you didn’t have a fairly firm and even surface under the fabric, I think that would cause more problems down the road.

[tangledweb]

If weeds are the only problem, dragging it well 1+ times a week will fix it.

Fresh footing on top without fines or organic material would help too, but unless you are also trying to fix rideability or drainage it’s an expensive way to chase weeds. In a year there will be enough seeds in the layer above the fabric that you’ll need to drag 1+ times a week to control them.

[msj]

Thanks everyone. I guess I was really hoping to use the geotextile as a weed barrier. I no longer have horses and no longer use the outdoor arena so the weeds have taken a strong, very strong hold. I had it professionally sprayed last year and was hoping that it would kill the weeds there but they seemed to have come back in spades.

I’ve just finished a complete spray with Round Up Super Max or what ever it is that I got from TSC and all the weeds look to be dying. I’m planning on having them sprayed once more(hopefully in early Sept) in hopes that I can keep them under control. There is virtually NO footing in the arena now, just the very lightest of topping with stone dust so I’d need to get more footing in for dragging.

I’ve considered just throwing top soil down and then grass seed and turning it into another pasture but I really hate to do that because as an arena it was great. :sigh: I don’t even mind having to drag it, even a couple times/wk if necessary because I have plenty of time on my hands with no horses to care for. I’d like to have the place looking good as I really should put it on the market and find a smaller property but I really do like the layout of the house even if it’s way too big for my needs.

Thanks again everyone for your thoughts and suggestions.

[Guilherme]

Based on your use RoundUp the area, seed it, and cover it with old hay or straw. See what you get. If the growth is weak add some seed or lime as required.

You could do a soil sample (about $15) and get a very specific recommendation.

G.

[msj]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8234665]
Based on your use RoundUp the area, seed it, and cover it with old hay or straw. See what you get. If the growth is weak add some seed or lime as required.

You could do a soil sample (about $15) and get a very specific recommendation.

G.[/QUOTE]

Guilherme, I honestly don’t want to add another pasture partially because I have the lovely arena that was fantastic to ride in when I did ride. With the tiling and grading, I could go out after a heavy, heavy downpour and ride and jump with no problems. I’d really prefer to get it back even if I don’t ride in it. I also think when I do finally wise up and put the farm on the market, a lovely 80’ X 220’ outdoor will add more value to the farm for riding than just the indoor.

I do know that when I did quit riding, I did NOT drag it weekly like I used to do and the few weeds that would emerge when I rode, were usually pulled right out except those growing deep in the corners. They didn’t have a chance to send their roots deep into the compacted clay base. The footing has almost completely vanished so if I can get the arena back, I’ll add footing and go back to dragging as soon as the snow is off in the spring and drag at least every week till the snow comes again.

But, if I’m able to get it professionally sprayed this year in about 6-8 wks, meaning a 2nd killing of any more emerging weeds AND it still comes back in next spring as green as it did this year, then I give up and it will become a pasture.

Last year I had the professional sprayer come in and about month after he sprayed I used my York rake to drag the dead weeds. Then I spent hours sifting through what footing remained to pull those weeds out and put them in the dumpster only to find a very green arena this spring. I don’t know if when I dragged the arena last fall I actually spread the weed seeds that I thought were dead but, as I said, this yr it was a lovely green carpet of weeds. Honestly, if it had been mostly grass I’d have let it go to pasture but it was 99.99% weeds.

[Guilherme]

Do I understand that you want to preserve the facility as usable for riding even though you don’t ride any longer?

If that’s the case then spray it and after the vegetation is dead take what steps you need to take to restore it to function. There are longer term chemicals than glycophosphates. Find one that will give a year or so of “kill” and use that.

G.

[msj]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;8234959]
Do I understand that you want to preserve the facility as usable for riding even though you don’t ride any longer?

YES!!!(my response to Guilherme)

If that’s the case then spray it and after the vegetation is dead take what steps you need to take to restore it to function. There are longer term chemicals than glycophosphates. Find one that will give a year or so of “kill” and use that.

G.[/QUOTE]

Even RoundUp now has a 365 day chemical BUT it isn’t available in NY.

Right now I’m mixing the Round Up Plus Max or Round Up Super Max or whatever it’s called and Amine 400 at double the strength to get the kill I’m getting. The pro sprayer guy is also using a strong chemical that browns/kills the plants in a 48 hr time frame but the little green buggers came back stronger this year after being sprayed professionally last year. That’s one reason I want it sprayed again in 6-8 wks or so.

It’s cheaper for me to have the professional sprayer do the treatment than to do it myself. I think so far I’ve bought 3 2.5 gallon containers of the Round Up solution and 2 2.5 gallons of the Amine 400 for a total cost of $370.00 and multiple days of my time whereas last yr the cost was $110.00 and he was able to be in and out in 30 minutes. :sigh: When I told him was I was using this year he said it should do the trick but I have no idea what he sprayed with last year.

[Gloria]

Geotextile should be used under the base, not under the footing. For your purpose, if the arena is in good shape except for the grass, all you need to do is spray once, and start your weekly grooming after the vegetation is dead. If you just want to maintain the appearance of the area without riding on it, I suppose your idea will work, short term anyway. Without grooming, vegetation will eventually take over, geotextile or not, and with geotextile under the footing, it is just about impossible to groom.

[msj]

Thanks Gloria. I’ve kinda figured this out that the geotextile isn’t going to do the trick.

I’m going to just spray twice this yr hopefully and then get footing on it and drag and drag and drag. And then drag some more!

Adding that the base is a compacted clay base and when I say compacted, I mean compacted. The builder brought in a vibrating compactor that I could feel at the house, maybe 2-300 ft away and my neighbor said his windows were rattling… and he’s probably 600+ foot away and new construction to boot! :sigh:

[pluvinel]

You need a pre-emergent herbicide to keep the weeds from returning.

Surflan keeps weeds down for a whole summer in our area.
http://www.wplawinc.com/LiteratureRetrieve.aspx?ID=115334

[msj]

pluvinel, thanks for the heads up on Surflan. It may be too late now after I’ve (hopefully) killed everything but will talk to the guy that’s done my arena last year to see if he’s got it or any kind of a pre-emergence to spray on the arena for next year. It took me over a week to spray my arena as I could only work most days for about 3-4 hrs before it got too hot for this 70 yr old to be out. Unfortunately most early spring cooler days are also very, very windy and rainy making it virtually impossible to spray. I’d love to get the arena back to where it was when I did ride. Dragging it isn’t that hard, maybe about a 1/2 hr.

[pluvinel]

Chemical gardening is your friend…just talk to anyone who works at a large arboretum and is responsible for maintaining large “lawns” or flower beds.

You can mix Roundup and Surflan in the same tank and spray both at the same time. Roundup kills, and Surflan prevents seeds from germinating. The mix is about 1 oz/gallon…1 oz of the “old” concentrate…most garden centers sell the dilute stuff…it is hard to find the concentrate, so look at the label.

[msj]

pluvinel, believe me, I’m firm believer in ‘/better living through chemistry.’ I spent 31 yrs at Eastman Kodak, which was at one time not only a camera film company but also a very large chemical company. I spent almost 9 yrs testing the toxicity of the chemicals and the remainder auditing the studies and reviewing the reports due to govt regulations passed in 1979.

I’m going to print out what you’ve said about the Surflan into a document for next spring.

Thanks for all the help and recommendations. This old gal certainly appreciates it.