Not really. Castration is to keep inferior stud dogs from bringing and increasing undesirable traits in the breed and is part of a breeder’s responsibility to the public and the breed.
And ah…no one is forcing you to crop and ear your dogs. You’re doing it because you think you will win if you do.
There is no mysterious ‘Force’ in the universe causing dogs to be cropped and eared, some inexorable power forcing you to. It is the choice of individuals, and individuals perpetuate it.
[QUOTE=slc2;3725996]
Not really. Castration is to keep inferior stud dogs from bringing and increasing undesirable traits in the breed and is part of a breeder’s responsibility to the public and the breed.
And ah…no one is forcing you to crop and ear your dogs. You’re doing it because you think you will win if you do.
There is no mysterious ‘Force’ in the universe causing dogs to be cropped and eared, some inexorable power forcing you to. It is the choice of individuals, and individuals perpetuate it.[/QUOTE]
I agree that very very very few animals should contribute back to the gene pool. We have bred 6 litters in 30 years, we are very selective. Castration is not a necessity, it is for the owner’s conveninece. With effort and care, a responsible owner can keep an intact animal from contributing to the gene pool. Castration is not necessary if the owner is responsible. It is simply more convenient to castrate.
I never suggested that a mystery force is motivating our choice to crop or dock. We do it humanely, with great care. I do not like the procedure, it is cosmetic… btw, it is not just for the show ring, it is the look people in this country expect. I understand if you do not like that reasoning, I actually agree with you calling it BS. But as a breeder and member of the DPCA, I can tell you that IS the reasoning. That, and some will say it promotes healthy ears… or that our country’s Homeland Security interests are advanced if we have a cropped - docked dog as a threat to terrorists. The truth is that we like the look. I will probably get slammed by Doberman people for even expressing this opinion openly. We like the look and yet hate the crop and dock. It is hypocritical (as you no doubt notice). We may never breed again… the docking and cropping debate is a struggle even with myself that I can not win anymore.
It doesn’t make any sense though to be more concerned about what happens to a horse after death (namely whether some Frenchman eats it, the carcass gets burned, burried or turned into fertilizer) when at the same token extending a horses tack-time by means of medication is considered acceptable.
Just a point to make. I think that most people aren’t as concerned with what happens after death, as they are with what happens on the way to death.
Now back to your regularly scheduled train wreck.
NJR
Of course the stress you put on joints contributes to later arthritis. So really, what are you dooming your horse to by riding UL dressage at all? How many UL dressage horses do you know who are sound and nonarthritic into their 20s?
Mileage is mileage. Horse’s legs have odometers in them. They only have so many miles, the harder the work is, the more the miles count. The secret is getting them fit enough without running the odometer down.
This is why the best trainers teach people to not take even one SINGLE extra step with their horses, and to make their training time count, and to not have to redo things or fix mistakes.
[QUOTE=Ambrey;3726266]
Of course the stress you put on joints contributes to later arthritis. So really, what are you dooming your horse to by riding UL dressage at all? How many UL dressage horses do you know who are sound and nonarthritic into their 20s?[/QUOTE]
Thank you Cartier for adding your perspective. That was very helpful. To Ambrey: Not so many. But like I said only because something goes on in the top-sport/the upper levels doesn’t mean it is acceptable.
The question whether permanent medical maintainance is acceptable while keeping the horse in work or even showing does not only concern a few top horses though but more or less any horse that is being ridden.
So said question needs to be answered by each individual owner who certainly wants to do the right thing to their own beloved equine. Saying ‘the top riders to this’ isn’t really an option when my own horse has nothing to do with topsport at all.
And no I don’t advocate sending any chronically lame horse to slaughter. In my practise I’ve never had an owner opt for slaughter when the decision was made that the horse’s life needed to end but every single one wanted the horse euthanized and that was done.
The slaughter debate I’ve been following rather passively on this forum never looked as if it was focused on what happens prior to slaughtering (as in gruesome long distance transportation or inappropriate performance of slaughterhouses in certain countries) but it was always a strict pro or antislaughter debate which I find completely pointless as the horse has no knowledge about the future and has no concept of what happens after death. The discussion should therefor exclude the detail whether or not the horse’s body is eaten by whomever or not.
Sorry for dragging this OT further and further. There’s no need to start another slaughter debate. There just seem to be some utter misapprehensions about what importance slaughter has in this country and anybody who has travelled Europe for a while will realise just how different your average northern German horse-slaughtering house is from the horror cabinet we all know from the existing video footage of the dreadful kill-candidates who travel southwest.
There was a lecture a few years ago by Prof. Urs Schatzmann one of the leading experts on equine anesthesia and euthanizia in Europe that has thoroughly convinced myself (a vet student at the time) that properly executed slaughtering is a valid alternative when the owner’s sentiments don’t matter.
Re. earcropping et.al. I’m glad to hear there is a lot of motion in the matter. There was a hug hubub years ago when the general ban came. Not only Dobermann-breeders but also a lot of huntsmen were quite upset. Interestingly the masses of bruised tails they expected never showed up in small animal practice as predicted and I haven’t seen a cropped Dobermann in my practice in two years now. Yes it looked funny at the beginning to see undocked Foxterriers, uncropped Great Danes etc. but people became accustomed to the look rather quickly and after a few years the protest ceased even from the huntsmen end (a generally very preservative fraction of population over here and with a rather strong lobby and a lot of economic power)
Another Cruelty – Horse Breeder Charged
http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/horse-breeder-charged-with-cruelty/423481
:no: What is wrong with people?
That brought tears to my eyes and that was just disgusting. I wish that horse would have cow kicked her in the damn head Mike
[QUOTE=lstevenson;3722415]
I have worked with the finest vets in this country (and I’ve also been an equine vet tech for the biggest equine hospital in this country), and I can tell you that they say that it is TRUE that riding is good for arthritic horses.
Again, keeping their musclature strong supports arthritic joints, and keeps them more sound and comfortable. And NO, the excercise a horse gets during turnout does NOT keep their musclature strong. It’s great for horses to live outside and move around all of the time, but it does not build muscle. Ask any good doctor or vet, strong MUSCLES to support the joints are what keeps arthritic joints comfortable.
Wait until you get old enough to have some arthritic joints yourself. And see if you want to “put yourself out to pasture” or take some advil so you can keep working out and keep yourself strong and healthy. :yes:[/QUOTE]
That was said perfectly AMEN!!!
I can’t believe she is at it again…the bitch should be put in jail. Those poor horses. God bless them!!
[QUOTE=canwong;4032427]
http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/horse-breeder-charged-with-cruelty/423481[/QUOTE]
The Paragallo horses are up for adoption(67 of them)
http://fuglyhorseoftheday.blogspot.com/
bottom of the first post on the page.
Toxin Suspected – Death of 21 Horses in Florida
I am pretty sure the dressage trainer - as I am using the term LOOSELY - had nothing to do with the unfortunate polo ponies.
German ex-toprider caught (again) on hidden camera (warning horse abuse)
Ohh very sad.
A person should treat animal like a gentleman. It is our duty to spread awarness among the people about this issue. we should use hidden cameras to prevent animals from beating.
In every religion there are teachings to treat animal softly. I hope we should practise on it.
thanks
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