After reading some of the warmblood/pony cross threads, I have been thinking of breeding my Hanoverian mare to a GRP stallion. I am looking to downsize this mare (she is 16.2) and the 15hh range is fine. I have many remedial pony breeding questions. Is this mare too tall? Will the resulting offspring have strange conformation? I am particularity interested in FS Don’t Worry, FS Champion De Luxe, and Popeye. Can anyone comment on the temperaments of these stallions, and is my mare too big to breed to a pony stallion? TIA.
TO breed down from 16.2 to approx 15 hands - will mean you need to go to a 13 hand stallion - probably a Welsh B would work to give you the size you want.
FS CHampion de Luxe, FS Don’t Worry are “endmass” ponies - they are a full 14.2 and both are known, when bred to pony mares in the 14 - 14.2 hand range - to produce “oversize” ponies. So to breed to a 16.2 hand mare you will end up in the 15.2 to 16 hand range is my estimate. You don’t often see offspring from them smaller than 14.1 when bred to normal size pony mares. My Champion De Luxe 3yo is a full 14.2 already and will probably “go over”. His dam was a 14 hand Durello/Dressman pony mare.
In Germany some Weser Ems pony breeders are crossing 16 hand mares with Welsh B - like Constantine and Calido G and the Braes My Mobility to produce 14.2 size ponies that are half warmblood.
I have a weanling pony filly in Germany from a DeNiro mare sired by Calido G. The mare is 16 hands, the sire is 13 hands. This is the 3rd repeat breeding of this cross and the older 2 have stayed pony sized - but just barely.
Thanks for the info, honeylips; I was looking at your new ponies and I really like them. 
16.0 will still be okay, but I am hoping for a little bit smaller.
I too would go with a Welsh B especially since you can get rather odd conformation from GRP-WB-crosses if there is not a lot of Welsh-Blood involved. If things go wrong you get a horsey boady and head with ponysize legs underneath. Not desirable
There are a lot of super Section B stallions available in N.A. albeit most of them have been selected and used catering to the hunter pony market hence you might not find something outstanding to breed your WB-mare to if you have a dressage horse in mind. That being said it absolutely depends on your mare and her bloodlines b/c if she is genetically strong for movement and conformation you might get away with the ideal namely a typier smaller horse that still has a lot of WB criteria.
To be quite honest neither FS Don’t Worry nor CdL are stallions I would consider to put on a WB mare. Popeye maybe with the matching genetics on the mare’s side but the other two are clear no’s for me especially with regards to type and size.
I would look at A Gorgeous, FS Golden Highlight, Gandalf, HET Golden Dream, Dressman.
All of those produce slightly smaller but not as small as going to a 13 hand Welsh B - like Calido or the Braes My Mobility.
Charm of Nibelungen also made slightly smaller 14 - 14.1 hand ponies. He is dead but there is frozen available for him. My pony (former stallion) Clooney AT is by him.
But I agree fully with Kareen. One of the endmass ponies on a 16.2 hand WB mare - you might end up with something wierd.
But Champion de Luxe and FS Don’t Worry - always make a very tall pony - so wouldn’t downsize for you much at all. That said they are 2 of my favorite pony stallions when bred to pony mares.
I am definitely concerned about conformation. I keep picturing a sausage body with pony legs. I’ll look at the ponies suggested, thanks.
I own Popeye and he has been crossed on horse mares and the results have been very good. In fact one filly was the Champion filly foal at Hilltop in 2010. We have not seen any of his foals from any size mares ending up looking like “sausages”. There was one out of Holsteiner mare this year that is quite lovely. Having cross bred ponies with Welsh, TB and WB in them - I find the GRP’s with several generation of GRP in their pedigree tend to have fewer conformation issues when crossed on larger mares.
FYI - I saw Charm of Nibelungun in Germany two years before he had to be put down and he was a sizeable boy. He was not as tall as his sire but much more susbstantial. We have two mares by his sire Chantre’B and they are large ponies but both are out of GRP large pony mares.
my CLooney AT is by Charm of Nibelungen. He is 14.0 1/2 (146cm), stockier build.
My new pony stallion is 146cm and is bred FS Golden Highlight/FS Don’t Worry/Valentino. But I don’t think we will be freezing him.
ise@ssl, I will try to send you a picture of my mare; let me know what you think.
You might consider my Weser-Ems stallion, Burberry. I think he is an ideal cross with WB mares as he is very horse like in his proportions and movement, but only 14hh tall. He is line bred to Constantin…so you get the influential Welsh in the background. The broodmare I purchased to cross with him is a 15.1hh Trak/New Forrest and they had a really nice colt this year.
He is an amzingly athletic pony and received the highest score at the recent 30 day testing including a 9.5 for interior qualities.
He is also producing high quality foals. His first colt is currently #5 in the nation at USDF breed shows in colts of current year (against warmbloods). I am going to offer discounts to WB mare owners this year because I really think this cross will be super;)
By the way, honeylips…it is a shame you don’t consider freezing…we sure could use all the options we can get in GRP bloodlines.
Heather - I can talk to the stallion station where he will be standing - and see if they are up for freezing him and perhaps a few others of theirs as well. But the 4 weeks quarantine for export freezing is a lot to ask of them. Personally - I would freeze him if it were up to me. They have a most wonderful Welsh B at their station as well named Bob Sinclair R. He competes and wins against the big horses! They also have, and will stand, A New Star (Reserve Champion of the 2011 Licensing today) - a beautiful moving machine - buckskin stallion by A Gorgeous.
You can find them both on clipmyhorse in the archive. A New Star was #30, Golden State was #87.
My stallion, Golden State, is interestingly bred - FS Golden Highlight sire, FS Don’t Worry/Valentino dam. Golden State was reserve champion 2009 German Foal Championships in Lienen, and today was a Premium stallion at the licensing.
Yep, many pony stallion owners in Germany won’t bother with the quarentine…which is why the US mare owners have access to so few bloodlines. Most of the ones you named off earlier in this thread are unavailable to us. I have been breeding since 2002 when there was NO frozen semen (and only one stallion in the US)…so I know how far we have come…but we still have a long way to go. I am hoping you could break that trend and help US mare owners:) Your boy has interesting bloodlines and a beautiful golden color! We appreciate you putting in a good word for US breeders for the other stallions at the station as well!!!
I’ll give it a shot!
They have as well (among their 6 pony stallions) the lovely
Cezanne De Luxe - Champion de Luxe/Domingo/Rosedale Tiberius. Champion of licensing 2008
I think Superior Equine has semen from FS Don’t Worry, Charm of Nibelungen, Nemax and Der Feine Lord AT.
[QUOTE=honeylips;5988865]
A New Star (Reserve Champion of the 2011 Licensing today) - a beautiful moving machine - buckskin stallion by A Gorgeous.
You can find them both on clipmyhorse in the archive. A New Star was #30, Golden State was #87.
I absolutely loved number 30 A New Star—going to check out your boy in the archive—the FB link isnt working.
Thank you Melissa!
I was a mare owner way before I was a stalion owner, lol. Although I think Burberry is ideal for the US mare owner overall due to his smaller size, stellar temerament and being a great all around athlete…we need choices in order to continue to improve our breeding programs.
Frozen stallions I have used in the past or are in my tanks include: Hilken’s Black Delight, Voyager, FS Don’t Worry, Casino Royal K and Don’t Forget. I was excited to see Nemax added to the line up last year and hope to see more stallions available in the future;)
