Getting a tough horse into water

[ItchyRichie]

Hello!

Okay I’ve ridden plenty of horses that were nervous about water and gotten them in, but my 4yo is really really tough about it.

She doesn’t really panic or act super nervous, she just plants herself and won’t budge at all. When I first got her, she would not go anywhere near our wash rack. She’s actually good about the wash rack now, very begrudgingly. She really won’t step in puddles, with or without me riding her. I remember the first day she came I turned her out in a paddock with a puddle in front of the gate and it took me like 20 minutes to get her into the paddock and she leapt 100 feet over it. It’s so strange, she is not spooky or timid in basically any other setting. I’ve tried ponying her in, lunging her next to a puddle, following a huge group of horses into water, and the best we’ve ever done is one foot. She is very calm during the whole thing, actually when we tried ponying her in she really wanted her head itched by the person on the other horse :lol: Any advice? Honestly I think if i can get her in once it won’t be an issue again.

[beowulf]

Are you able to go to an eventing facility in your area and “school” their water?

An old mentor of mine showed me a classic trick for horses that don’t like water. Hose off their feet/hooves first and get them nice and wet before you present them to the water obstacle. Once their feet are wet they seem to care a whole lot less about water. Defeats the purpose of them setting up shop and saying “no! I don’t wanna get wet!” – they’re already wet, and suck it up better :lol:

Horses can’t tell how deep water is, so it’s all about teaching them that water is nothing to be afraid of. If possible, start asking her to walk over other weird surfaces too – tarp, bright towels, a blanket (that is retired!), maybe present her to a weird light-to-dark footing (one of my greenies really balked at pavement for the longest time) change too.

[Linda]

I like the idea of hosing off their feet - thats very creative.
Another idea would be to make a big water puddle in his paddock and put his food on the other side such that he has to cross the big puddle in order to eat. I did this with my horse when I was trying to teach him to load in the trailer. He would NOT go in. Period.
So I hitched the trailer to my truck and parked it in his field. I put the food in the trailer, tied the trailer doors open and left him out there. He didnt eat for almost 2 days. Then he would cautiously go in, grab a bite of hay and bolt out. Eventually he decided the trailer was ok and loads easily now. You could do a similar thing - putting his hay on the other side of the water puddle such that he has to walk through the puddle to get to the food.
Good luck!

[rubles]

Try tiring her out, and I do mean tired. I knew I’d never win an argument with my TB so we’d go on a five-hour hack and then he’d do what was asked of him.
He was the best trail horse ever and very safe.

[Tiffani_B]

My water-phobic horse will cross water backwards. So I back him in halfway, make him stand in it, then back him almost all the way out, and then walk forward. Backwards and forwards until he gets bored. It only took a few times and now he doesn’t even hesitate.

[Boo]

Also try going to the beach or a lake/river etc. ive found that to work for me.

[enjoytheride]

So you’ve had a competent trainer pony her in?

If you are on a trail and the group in front crosses the water and leaves what does she do?

When I bought my mare I was told that she doesn’t do water. They really only had access to small creeks and she would jump them.

The first thing I did was take her on a 6 mile trail with 15 water crossings that were almost all too wide to jump and a 1/4 mile stretch down a creek.

She did a lot of leaping, jumping, spinning, and tantruming but by the end she plowed into the long stretch as the lead horse, paddled through it, and never looked back.

[Palm_Beach]

OP, you have a Go Forward problem that only shows up once in a while since your horse seems to have a good temperment and work ethic. Your horse is telling you No, sho showing a bit of disrespect.

Watch some trailer loading videos - it’s the same procedure, just with water. There may be some water specific videos online as well.

[tabula_rashah]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8846949]
OP, you have a Go Forward problem that only shows up once in a while since your horse seems to have a good temperment and work ethic. Your horse is telling you No, sho showing a bit of disrespect.

Watch some trailer loading videos - it’s the same procedure, just with water. There may be some water specific videos online as well.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely. All the little tricks in the world will only work for so long if they work at all.
Spend the time to work your horse in hand, first in the ring and then increase the difficultly with obstacles, etc. Make sure that the forward is completely installed. You say go forward, horse goes forward with a yes mam’, no questions asked attitude.
Then tackle the water. Set the horse up for success- don’t use a tiny creek that they can easily jump or avoid or water that has waves in it that and find somewhere with easy access so you’re not working with a steep rocky bank. Also give yourself plenty of time- don’t do it in the middle of a ride when you have to keep up with others. And you (general you who is training whichever horse) need to have decent timing and feel when working them to get in the water, if you don’t, get someone else who does to do it for you. I have fixed an awful lot of “my horse won’t go in water” and I’ve never had a horse refuse once they were actually taught to go in the water.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8846949]
OP, you have a Go Forward problem that only shows up once in a while since your horse seems to have a good temperment and work ethic. Your horse is telling you No, sho showing a bit of disrespect.

Watch some trailer loading videos - it’s the same procedure, just with water. There may be some water specific videos online as well.[/QUOTE]

In fairness, I don’t see it as a ‘go forward’ problem. It’s more of a ‘self-preservation’ problem. They can’t tell how deep the water is, and if they don’t trust you or don’t know it’s safe, they’re going to stop. You can’t force a horse to trust you. You have to show them that whatever you ask them to do, it will be safe and okay.

For that reason alone I do not ever force a horse into water. I do something similar to Enjoytheride’s method - I ride them a place that has many water crossings and present them with different options… They can jump in and get wet… or they can get left behind. Eventually they always see it my way – but I am very, very patient and do not kick or spur them into the water.

Horses lack depth perception. When they stop at water they are not being rude, disobedient, disrespectful or nappy – they are doing what instinct tells them to do - to avoid something they can’t properly gauge. To them, a puddle may as well be a chasm.

It takes time & patience to show them that no matter what, the puddle is always NBD.

[MsM]

My old horse had a problem with crossing water when I first got him. What worked with him was time and minimal pressure. So he stops at a stream crossing. I sit and wait. He tries to turn away and I block. Wait until he relaxes. Urge forward. He takes a few steps and stops. Repeat the process. Eventually we are to the edge and he paws and inspects. I urge and he carefully walks across. With him, it was a self-preservation thing - he was always very careful where he put his feet. Forcing him before he was ready only got upset and spinning. Letting him figure out it was okay worked for him. After a few crossings like this (each one was different to him) he got much better and usually went right though new crossings but sometimes stopped for a peek. He was easier than the horse before who would screw up his courage and then LEAP! That was tough until he learned.

[Palm_Beach]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8847068]
In fairness, I don’t see it as a ‘go forward’ problem. It’s more of a ‘self-preservation’ problem. They can’t tell how deep the water is, and if they don’t trust you or don’t know it’s safe, they’re going to stop. You can’t force a horse to trust you. You have to show them that whatever you ask them to do, it will be safe and okay.

For that reason alone I do not ever force a horse into water. I do something similar to Enjoytheride’s method - I ride them a place that has many water crossings and present them with different options… They can jump in and get wet… or they can get left behind. Eventually they always see it my way – but I am very, very patient and do not kick or spur them into the water.

Horses lack depth perception. When they stop at water they are not being rude, disobedient, disrespectful or nappy – they are doing what instinct tells them to do - to avoid something they can’t properly gauge. To them, a puddle may as well be a chasm.

It takes time & patience to show them that no matter what, the puddle is always NBD.[/QUOTE]

I don’t really agree with your method, if I understand it correctly. You are using separation anxiety to get the horse to choose between being left behind and crossing the water? I’ve seen horses pitch fits when left behind, and would not recommend this for anyone who is not a very experienced rider.

I would recommend methodically teaching Go Forward in the ring, and with OP’s horse this would not take long at all. Then I would have the horse cross a tarp, bridge, any variety of footing type obstacles that the OP has access to in a safe, secure place like an arena.

When a horse has a lack of confidence or anxiety, I don’t use a strong cue for go forward. The horse understands what it means, and I don’t want to increase the energy level and put too much pressure on the horse. So when working on a horse that has water issues, I’ll just present the horse to the water and bump my legs hard enough that it’s clear I want the horse to go forward, but not so hard that I will tire if the horse needs to think a minute. The instant the horse takes a step forward, or even shifts its weight forward, I stop bumping and praise lightly. Then resume bumping until I get another forward response. This normally results in a fairly quick understanding without getting an unwanted response like a huge leap into the water, or a dash across the water. I want calm forward steps into the water. And I don’t mind if the horse needs to stop and sniff while crossing.

I prefer this method because the horse stays calm. Some stream crossings have tough entrances, and a horse that wheels or backs up may get into a bad situation. So it works in all places, and the horse does not respond in a manner that would challenge a less experienced rider.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8847867]
I don’t really agree with your method, if I understand it correctly. You are using separation anxiety to get the horse to choose between being left behind and crossing the water? I’ve seen horses pitch fits when left behind, and would not recommend this for anyone who is not a very experienced rider.

I would recommend methodically teaching Go Forward in the ring, and with OP’s horse this would not take long at all. Then I would have the horse cross a tarp, bridge, any variety of footing type obstacles that the OP has access to in a safe, secure place like an arena.

When a horse has a lack of confidence or anxiety, I don’t use a strong cue for go forward. The horse understands what it means, and I don’t want to increase the energy level and put too much pressure on the horse. So when working on a horse that has water issues, I’ll just present the horse to the water and bump my legs hard enough that it’s clear I want the horse to go forward, but not so hard that I will tire if the horse needs to think a minute. The instant the horse takes a step forward, or even shifts its weight forward, I stop bumping and praise lightly. Then resume bumping until I get another forward response. This normally results in a fairly quick understanding without getting an unwanted response like a huge leap into the water, or a dash across the water. I want calm forward steps into the water. And I don’t mind if the horse needs to stop and sniff while crossing.

I prefer this method because the horse stays calm. Some stream crossings have tough entrances, and a horse that wheels or backs up may get into a bad situation. So it works in all places, and the horse does not respond in a manner that would challenge a less experienced rider.[/QUOTE]

See, that’s different than what you said above, which is that the horse was being disrespectful by not having a ‘Go’ button.

No amount of teaching “go forward” in the ring is going to get a horse to be able to see the bottom of a water crossing and understand implicitly that they are not going to get hurt. That’s something you have to teach them by getting them through water.

My method is “I wouldn’t ask you to do something that would kill you”. You shouldn’t present a horse to water and then have an argument about it on the banks - IME that is even worse because when you kick or as you say, “gently tap” the horse to go forward, their first instinct is going to be to balk - on a bank, that can be slippery and dangerous.

it’s the whole "The Method Of Extraction Can Be More Painful Than The Extraction’ theory. The method: getting them into the water. The extraction: the water - it’s not the water that causes issues once they’re in - it’s how you set them up to enter the water. You set them up for success and you don’t present them with a situation they can fail in. You don’t give them the option to fail. That’s why hosing their legs off pre-puddle and/or and setting them up with a more experienced horse to follow works.

That first step into the water needs to be of their own volition, because they want to, not because they want to get away from you kicking them.

I’ve seen trainers and amateurs alike permanently ruin horses for eventing careers by believing what you believe, that it is a lack of respect or “Go” - IME that is setting up for an argument right in front of the base of the water. They kick, kick, kick, kick them and the horse learns to associate the water with an altercation/disagreement, unpleasantness and anxiousness. If they took the time to let the horse figure it out themselves, it would be a different story.

Again, with young/green horses and water - it is not a “go forward” problem - it’s a “I can’t see the bottom of that and I don’t know what it is” problem. Teach them it’s okay to listen to you and it won’t be a problem.

[kinscem]

Have a mounted water experienced friend to give you a lead and be ready to get your own boots wet. Give it time.
Dismount, lead into the water and show the horse there is nothing to worry about.
Your horse is actually smart and doesn’t want to go into unknown depth water. In their uneducated instinct - water can be deadly and to be avoided.

[goeslikestink]

[QUOTE=Palm Beach;8846949]
OP, you have a Go Forward problem that only shows up once in a while since your horse seems to have a good temperment and work ethic. Your horse is telling you No, sho showing a bit of disrespect.

Watch some trailer loading videos - it’s the same procedure, just with water. There may be some water specific videos online as well.[/QUOTE]

exactly----- so easy way, do you know how to use a schooling whip properly then get on and use two as the horse will go forwards as it cant concentrate on two whips and you push him into his head to a relax yaw from behind

go home1st sit in a chair and pretend you on your horse hold both whips in your hands thumbs on top whould help if you had a spare rein to hold whilse praticing

so hands together look at your thumbs should be striaght and together your whips lay lay across your thigh and out the sides so if on a horse that bit and tag bit tickles his flanks so … pretend to walk… so thumbs in whips on flanks thumbs out whips of flanks… now post and do sitting trot… now once you mastered that bit now use you legs and pretend to squeeze when whips are on ie thumbs in

now take your whips mount you horse put both whips in one hand and mount from the side then pass over one whip to the other hand…

do everything in walk in a school now to push forwards legs on whips on… once mastered the walk do it in trot sitting and riising

now you have the horse listening… now take him back to the water and do the same in walk …push him through from behind leg on whips on.

[ItchyRichie]

Thanks! When we had a issues with the wash rack/wash stall I tried the going backwards thing, it worked once and never again lol she was insulted I thought she’d fall for that

I’m close to a horse park but it’s a little expensive and not a lot of other people at my barn go. I’ve taken her there twice and the best we’ve gotten is one foot in. The first time we went it was after it had rained, we crossed a creek and she leapt over it. The next time we went the same creek was dried up and she remembered that it had water in it last time and still leapt over it :lol: We get some pretty nice sized puddles in our ring though, I want to work on them with her next time it rains but I’m hesitant to start because I want some kind of plan and I have to do it on a day when I have a looootttt of free time because she can be very stubborn.

[ItchyRichie]

[QUOTE=enjoytheride;8846752]
So you’ve had a competent trainer pony her in?

If you are on a trail and the group in front crosses the water and leaves what does she do?

When I bought my mare I was told that she doesn’t do water. They really only had access to small creeks and she would jump them.

The first thing I did was take her on a 6 mile trail with 15 water crossings that were almost all too wide to jump and a 1/4 mile stretch down a creek.

She did a lot of leaping, jumping, spinning, and tantruming but by the end she plowed into the long stretch as the lead horse, paddled through it, and never looked back.[/QUOTE]

I’ve only ever had an opportunity to do small creeks and an eventing water complex. all 6 horses besides her in our group were in the water and she wouldn’t get in.

[ItchyRichie]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8847068]
In fairness, I don’t see it as a ‘go forward’ problem. It’s more of a ‘self-preservation’ problem. They can’t tell how deep the water is, and if they don’t trust you or don’t know it’s safe, they’re going to stop. You can’t force a horse to trust you. You have to show them that whatever you ask them to do, it will be safe and okay.

For that reason alone I do not ever force a horse into water. I do something similar to Enjoytheride’s method - I ride them a place that has many water crossings and present them with different options… They can jump in and get wet… or they can get left behind. Eventually they always see it my way – but I am very, very patient and do not kick or spur them into the water.

Horses lack depth perception. When they stop at water they are not being rude, disobedient, disrespectful or nappy – they are doing what instinct tells them to do - to avoid something they can’t properly gauge. To them, a puddle may as well be a chasm.

It takes time & patience to show them that no matter what, the puddle is always NBD.[/QUOTE]

I think both of these are pretty valid. When I got her she had a very big “go forward” problem (literally why she never made it to the track, absolutely would not gallop). She used to canter one lap around the ring and come to a dead stop and not budge. She’s really great now about going forward she’s super rideable I haven’t had an issue with that probably over a year. I’m not really strong when it comes to ground work but I have done some stuff with her lunging and leading. I like to set up ground poles when I do flat work with her so I taught her to follow me so I can move the poles and not worry about her lol. But she’ll follow me in other contexts too. Again I’m not really a ground work expert but all I did for that was lead her around the barn for a couple weeks with a rope around her neck, making her walk directly next to me, and stop and go and turn and whatever to get her to pay attention to me. She follows me now so I guess it worked lol.

But honestly it’s been so long since I’ve had a go forward problem with her that I’m kind of skeptical that that’s what my issue is here. When I get a chance I’ll try to take her out somewhere with a lot of crossings. Again I really think if I can get her in once it won’t be an issue again because she’s an otherwise brave horse.

[ItchyRichie]

Also I’m giving her the month of september off because she’s going through a huge growth spurt right now (her butt is like 16.3 and her withers are like 16.1 lol) so any kind of ground work games would be really handy

[BEARCAT]

Have you tried backing her in?