Getting closer to hitching my boy! Bits? Tips?

[Hopeless]

I haven’t written in a LONG time. I have a rescue mustang that foundered and we have been working our way back from that. He is doing better, we don’t have the all clear to start actually driving, but my vet and farrier have both said he can do ground work and what ever he is comfortable with. He is sound at the walk, so we have been doing a lot of ground driving a the walk. He is doing really well.

He seems unphased by any part of the harness. I have even added some pressure to the harness, but need another person to continue on with that. I haven’t been doing much in the last few months because I live in the Midwest and my barn doesn’t have an indoor.

Over the weekend I got an easy entry cart! Yea! I let him sniff it and he was all okay with that, then I lead him and the cart. He was okay with that. I started to ask him to back into the shafts … NOT to hitch him, but just to get him moving around it and used to it. That needs some work.

When I was ground driving him, he was doing fairly well in a bitless bridle, until I took him outside of the arena and he really was into the grass. I got him over that part, and drove him around a bit more, but thought … maybe bitless isn’t the best choice. I have been looking at half cheek mullen or broken mouth in a Happy mouth/ rubber/ or flexi Any opinions? Why are they so much more expensive that non riding bits? Ugg If I didn’t use a half cheek, what would be better?

I have been getting him used to voice, whip, and line commands. We have been working on stand - we are weak on this but working on it.
Any general suggestions on what to work on before I hitch … which I am not rushing into … and well wait until i am 100% sure he is read mentally, physically, and educationally. i would love a check list of things he should be able to do.

[kande04]

The most important skills for a driving horse, IMO, are that you can stop him even when he’s scared, and that no matter what happens with the cart he’s okay with it.

So before hitching you need to completely desensitize him to the cart and to all the noises it can make. The easiest way to do that is to ride the horse around horses who are hitched to carts and wagons so that he can see and hear them beside and behind him. If you can’t ride him then at least tie or lead him and then pull the cart all around him until he could give two hoots about it.

If a horse can’t be desensitized to bouncing, clanking, fast moving carts and wagons, then IMO, they should never be hitched.

If I’m desensitizing to a light cart I drag that thing around with me for weeks, until the horse thinks nothing of it. In fact, I like to bring feed out in it, so the cart has a strong association with meal times.

IMO, one of the mistakes trainers make is that they keep everything slow and quiet, and then when the horse spooks at something the cart scares them, and then, because they’re not used to how that sounds/feels they panic. And then the faster they go the more the cart scares them, which is never a good thing!

[DMK]

When it comes to bits, there’s nothing that says you have to have a half cheek. Really the things you need to worry about are more safety related. If the shafts aren’t close loop, make sure the ring is small enough to not get hung up on the shaft, and don’t use full check type cheek pieces because they too can get caught on things.

But liverpools are the bit of choice for drivers mostly because they are incredibly versatile (a three slot liverpool has 5 rein settings) and are designed in a way to make getting caught up on things hard. Not impossible, but not easy. And a plain mullen mouht liverpool is fairly inexpensive.

[goodhors]

Have you done any dragging while ground driving yet? We find dragging things very helpful to prospective driving horse. We start with a tire on traces with added length. You can add length with rope to a tire or singletree. An additional hip strap to hold traces up helps prevent getting a leg over long traces at the beginning stages. We also alternate between using an open bridle and blinker bridle during training, so horse gets used to managing without rear-ward vision.

I am not an advocate of bit less or specialized bit creations. This is because they were designed for use with a RIDER. The rein pull, Rider ability to stick an arm WAYY out sideways to bend the horse neck, are not something Drivers can use. The rein line is controlled by rein terrets, rings on a surcingle, no 90* sideways pull possible in a carriage.

On bits, I agree with DMK, the Liverpool cheeks are extremely adaptable in rein feel, with almost any mouthpiece design you can wish for an equine. We start with a ring-sided bit, mouth may be mullen, 2 or 3 piece jointed, on our young horses, then progress to the Liverpool as they get better educated. Our mouthpieces vary from a low port to a modified Sweetwater, mullen. All are moderately thick, comfortable, not thin mouthpieces. Sometimes mouthpiece will get latex wrapped for more cushion. Latex does make them slobber a lot! We do not care for the broken mouth bits with Liverpool sides. Our horses seem to find them unstable in rein contact as curb bits, horses get confused with that kind of direction from the Driver. Heads get thrown as signals change, get uneven. Not Pretty! Because we drive Multiples, our horses match pretty closely in breeding, size, mouth builds. So we don’t seem to need “exotic” mouthpieces to drive them , they stay happy in those basic designs. We don’t do rubber bits, we have observed the trouble they have caused for others. The main one is mouthpiece breakage at bad times. Not worth using with that high failure rate. Educating the horse mouth is better than going for more popular new style mouthpieces.

[Hopeless]

Thank you SO much. All of this input is great!

I have not dragged any thing yet, but I am planning on doing that. I have tires and even a small plastic sled. I do plan to work on that with him. I am amazed at how well he takes everything I throw at him.

I do plan on having someone work with me and having them move the cart all around him. Walk it around him as I ground drive him.

I will NOT put him to the cart until I am convinced he will be safe.

Thank you for the info on bits. I did just order him a mullen mouth half cheek flexi bit. It was the one I felt most comfortable putting him in. I will let you know how it goes.

[goodhors]

I would NOT use the plastic sled. Too light, slides too easy and apt to slide up under him at halts. Plastic sleds move easily with little effort even when loaded. Locally they are very popular for taking hay to the outside paddocks in winter, no effort to move them on dirt or snow. Tires have more resistance and tend to stop when horse does. You will want a car size rire, not a little mini spare or a big pickup size tire. He has to move it without working really hard, yet not be effortless either. Teaches him to be brave moving into weight. I would NOT start tire pulling and walking cart alongside at the same time. He needs to be comfortable with tire and how it moves behind him first, as you long line, ground drive him. Have your extra person lead him to get the idea thru that horse moves into weight when starting tire pulling. Tire will swing around, pull oddly as he increases speed, goes over rough ground. He might get a leg over a trace, keep him moving, not a big deal! Gradually slow, then stop, stand to fix things. Just part of being a driving horse! Have to say our barnyard never looks better than when long lining, dragging tires to smooth things down! Ha ha

Actually he also needs to practice with fake poles (tree saplings or other long rigid items) dragging, falling off, rubbing him, moving into their stiff pressure, before you think of putting cart shafts around him. Need to be long enough from harness saddle to have dragging ends about 3ft behind his rear legs. We have not used pool noodles, too short and not stiff/hard enough to simulate shafts on our tall horses.

Both these steps take time, regular works, to gain the benefits to the horse. I am talking 3 to 5 works weekly of an hour or so. It will take longer if you can only work him 1-2 times a week, big time span between works. Do NOT ask horse to back up with the tire or dragging poles. You will likely tangle in traces, poles will dig in to break or confuse horse for a bad reaction.

He needs to be responsive to the voice commands, rein signals during this training time. You are developing your working relationship at this time, obedience. His halt is rock solid from a walk and any trot speed, no ignoring your FIRST command. You should install a slow-down command like “easy” for dropping from road trot to slow trot. We use “hup” to have horse break pace from trot to walk to halt. For stopping it is “hup, hup, whoa”, three strides and he STOPS right now!! Never let him go thru a whoa command, it is your Emergency brake! He stops every time you say that, stands until given another command. We use the same commands, reinforce stopping, standing, while leading him too. The “hup” word warns horse you will be stopping or changing gait, he can prepare to do it. Horses LOVE helping, having a routine they can expect, will probably do it on a loose lead/rein after some practice.

I have to warn you on the half-cheek bit side, to be careful. Those ends can spike you, get snagged on things fairly easily. On ridden horses the half cheek DOES NOT prevent bit getting pulled into the mouth while bending around. Not sure why they were invented! In Pony Club the Rules for Rally stated any snaffle (direct pull, ring sided) bit with a cheek had to have bit keepers to let kid ride using it. All news to me! Son was using a medium thick, eggbutt snaffle with half cheeks on the old horse, still developing steady hands, easy on her mouth. However we got the required bit keepers, put them on bridle and bit to use at Rally. Quite funny looking to see the cheeks pointing up alongside the bridle cheeks, after seeing it as a popular driving bit! But his horse actually went better for him that way! I see it being less “delay time” taking up any rein slack, bit mouthpiece adjusting, to horse finally feeling contact directions. Best of all, no cheeks sticking down to get snagged or stab anyone!

Bit keepers are small figure 8 leather loops you can buy. One loop goes on the bridle cheek, other loop goes on the metal half-cheek to hold metal up alongside the cheek piece. Not hard to put on, does give bit a different feel in the mouth by keeping the mouthpiece curve across tongue, instead of dropping down when it has no rein pressure. These bit keepers are/were also used on full cheek and Fulmer bits that have cheeks that stick out from the mouthpieces. Cheeks are there presumably to prevent pulling the bit thru the horses mouth while riding, Hunting or racing. John Lyons brought full cheek bit back into popularity a while back, as training bits. He did not use bit keepers though.

[goodhors]

On bits, I forgot to mention we use swivel side Liverpools and they all have the rubber bit guards on the mouthpieces.

We want swivel sides to allow easier “leading” by the rein in turns. Bit side turns without pulling the entire bit sideways, crooked, in the horse mouth as fixed side bits can do. This is a constant topic of conversation to Driving folks with Pairs and Fours. I call the fixed side bit an H-frame, and don’t use any like it anymore. To me, it is not as “tweakable” as swivel sides. Other Drivers swear by fixed sides, don’t want swivel sides with the rein setup of multiples. We all do manage to drive well, keep the shiny side up, so that is what counts! Ha ha

The rubber bit rings beside the lips protect those lips from being pinched by swiveling of bit sides in bending, turns. Just a solid layer of rubber spreading out any pressure from the bit side on lips and teeth. Secondary protection for preventing pinching between curb chain, bit top and skin if you pull the reins to apply curb bit action. I have seen horses get pinched there, with sudden bad reactions to the pain. With our rubber bit guards on all the time, we don’t have to think about it happening. Another reason for bit guards is “loose-jaw” mouthpieces on bits. This is where the mouthpiece can slide up and down on the cheekpieces, which creates another pinch point. We have two horses who LOVE the loose-jaw bits, play with them while standing quietly. They are half brothers out of the same mare, who also loved her loose-jaw bit. She also would stand all day if she could play with her bit! A very oral horse, fiddled with things, chewed chains, ropes when tied, if not eating or loose outside. As Husband said, “Better to let her mouth the bit instead of trying to correct other misbehaving activities during long wait times.” Same with her sons, better than nagging to quit chewing to cause other issues.

Lastly, DO MEASURE the horse mouth to order the correct bit size to keep him comfortable wearing his bit. I will say we see a lot of horses wearing the wrong size bit. This is both ridden and driven animals. You should not presume because your horse is short, that he has a small mouth! Even “refined heads” can have wide mouths! I use a new pencil to measure mouths. Eraser end even with lips on one side, pencil thru the mouth, then mark other side of lips. Just a fingernail on the pencil will leave a mark, which let’s you measure with a ruler, from eraser end to mark on the pencil, for accurate sizing. I add 1/4 inch to measurement for bit ring additions, to keep enough width inside the mouth. Every horse here, wears a 6 inch bit. They may fit a slightly smaller bit when young, but mature to needing a 6 inch bit. My 14.2H Western horses wore 5 1/2 inch bits. They were attractive heads, one wore cob size bridles, but they had wide mouth. Same with the old pony who wore a 5 inch bit, but only stood 49 inches tall. You can’t tell by looking, so measure and KNOW what bit size is needed to keep your horse happy, comfortable in their work.

Putting bit rings on can be a little struggle. Heating them in a cup of water in the microwave for a couple minutes, helps greatly. They will stretch a little, do not split open so easily. Do work fast, they cool quickly. You need pliers to help pull them on.

[kande04]

@Hopeless

I have plans to make false shaves

This is a good idea, and then you can attach the tires to the false shaves and that will keep them back behind him. One of the things that can happen when tires (and such things) are tied to traces, is that if the horse jumps forward and then stops the tires can come up and hit him, which can make him decide that something really is attacking him.

Far better, IMO, to hitch everything to something solid that can be used with the breeching to prevent it from flying forward and hitting the horse.

Be sure to gradually increase the amount of noise back there too, as it’s something they need to be solid on before hitching.

[DMK]

They now make neoprene bit guards that have a slit to put them on. Rocked my world, I tell you… Plus I think they are more comfortable for the horse.

https://www.chicksaddlery.com/equiroyal-neoprene-bit-guards

[goodhors]

I can’t picture your driving bridle with the “upside down y” that prevents use of keepers. Bit Keepers might not fit the straps, but the bit has to get attached to the bridle somehow.

Per Kande04’s worry of the tire sliding up under horse, this is one reason to NOT start with little bitty tires unless your equine is also very small. Car tires have some weight to them, but not huge to have horse thimk tire is unmovable. You have teach horse to be brave, he will ALWAYS be able to move with his load, because YOU won’t ask too much from him. YOU build his confidence during training with small increases in weight pulled. Trust me, horse KNOWS there is more weight than last time! Ha ha Picking your ground to drive on, can make tire pulling less slippery in stopping. Our barnyard is gravel and crushed cement, flat hard surface so tire moves easily, offers friction without being slippery. Muddy ground will let tire fill with dirt, adding weight, moderate friction when horse stops, usully not sliding very far. Our Trainer has loose dirt in the covered arena, so tire fills with dirt but added weight is minimal.

Going immediately to fake shafts is OK, but they should not be tied together to start. We use very light string to hang our saplings from the rein terrets to start. NO baler twine because it won’t break easily. The object of the lesson is to have horse FEEL the fake shafts rubbing him, bumping body parts, swing out a bit on circles. That can’t happen if saplings are tied together with that board across the ends. Actually, that rigging is called a Travois (pronounced trav–oy). Used by the American Indians on horses to move goods during their seasonal migrations. With the light string attachment, the sapling can break loose if horse spooks, jumps, so it won’t chase him. You halt, he stands, you attach the string on harness and ask him to walk off again. This is a double lesson, standing well, sapling falling off is NO BIG DEAL. Didn’t hurt, and always popular, “I get a break!” happens. We start with one sapling, usually on the outside so ends swing wide on long line circles. I would NOT plan to ground drive in straight lines, open ground, when starting dragging poles. Sometimes they really jump, even after watching helper drag it alongside. You might not be able to hold him, so keeping things contained inside a fence/arena, is safer.

After some minutes of sapling on his outside, stop, remove sapling, lay it down, turn him around, put the sapling back on to learn dragging in the other direction for a bit. Again, if string breaks, slow him and stop, put the sapling back on. Act like it was planned! Nothing to get excited about, everyone stays calm, relaxed. Stuff happens while driving, shafts will jerk and lurch as cart goes over bumps, nothing to get excited about. So this preparation in dragging poles and tires that can “do unexpected things” is good as learning experiences. After some time dragging shafts on only one side, staying calm in all gaits, listening, you move sapling and attach the light string on his inside of the circle. Still only one sapling on him. Start slow, lots of walking because this time sapling will be staying close to him, rubbing more, because of centrifugal force pushing sapling outward, with horse in the way. Take your time, let him get very used to this new feel on him. Do circles in both directions to learn the feel on both his sides. Speeding up gaits will push the sapling against him harder, get him used to that. Your fake shafts ends are way out behind his longest stride, trying to prevent getting a leg over. When he is quietly going in both directions a while later, it is time to put both saplings on at the same time and have him walk off. Keep it slow so he can learn the feel of things, get used to them before asking for trot. You should be able to have him walk across the center of circle to reverse directions, drag things going the other way. Stop in the middle if you need rein adjustmenta. Everyone is calm.

Both pole dragging and tire dragging let animal experience odd touching and pulling of moving things, coming and going. Tires pulled will also swing outward on the circles, with stronger force as speed increases. Horse learns to accpt the pull, pressure of traces on haunches, occasional bounce of tire if it bumps something, just like happens unexpectedly in real life driving. I do think both pole dragging and tire dragging are really important teaching steps, to be done before you make fake shafts rigid with a crosspiece… They learn a lot more than just dragging stuff looks like, waching them move along. Repetition of these steps make them acceptable, not startling, before progressing to the next training step.

These basics “drilled” into horse are his source of life “experience” to figure reactions in new situations. A deep well of experience, never getting hurt or scared while learning, makes it more likely he will WAIT for you taking charge, giving directions, when a new scary thing occurs.

Your Trainer is coming, you will have tell us what she wants you to work on next!

[Hopeless]

Thank everyone, especially @goodhors. I really appreciate everyone taking time to write. I have a lot to work on. I think he is going to do well.

I have done a few things just goofing around, and he is completely chill about it. One thing I love about this horse is he a spook in place kinda dude. I have never seen him take off when spooked. And he is not terribly spooky. So I have high hopes for this endeavor.

Looks like I have a lot of work to do. Thanks! I will keep everyone up dated.

[BeckyS]

@goodhors

I can’t picture your driving bridle with the “upside down y” that prevents use of keepers. Bit Keepers might not fit the straps, but the bit has to get attached to the bridle somehow.

I’m wondering if the “upside down y” is an overcheck?

Bridling and bitting my driving horse has been the hardest thing to learn–there are so many different setups, then adding in sidechecks or overchecks…blew my mind! :lol:

[goodhors]

Good thinking Becky! You are probably correct about the overcheck. I got stuck thinking about blinker stays, derailed other ideas, and was no place close to the bit,

[Hopeless]

@BeckyS

I’m wondering if the “upside down y” is an overcheck?

Bridling and bitting my driving horse has been the hardest thing to learn–there are so many different setups, then adding in sidechecks or overchecks…blew my mind! :lol:

Yes … this is what I meant. LOL .I feel so silly because I should have know that. But that is exactly what I meant.

That was a broken mouth snaffle anyway.

[Hopeless]

Speaking of bridles … should I be doing all this in an open or closed bridle. So far all his training has been in an open bridle. I ground drove him today with the bit, a flexi half cheek mullen (I had already ordered it before we got into the why not to use a half cheek) and the closed bridle. He was very responsive and well behaved in it.

Still working on whoa (ho) being firm, but was so excited that he responded to walk and trot, left and right fairly well. I mean he would “ho” but she seemed to get impatient and want to walk off after about 20 seconds and needed the rein aids.

[BeckyS]

@Hopeless

Speaking of bridles … should I be doing all this in an open or closed bridle. So far all his training has been in an open bridle. I ground drove him today with the bit, a flexi half cheek mullen (I had already ordered it before we got into the why not to use a half cheek) and the closed bridle. He was very responsive and well behaved in it.

Still working on whoa (ho) being firm, but was so excited that he responded to walk and trot, left and right fairly well. I mean he would “ho” but she seemed to get impatient and want to walk off after about 20 seconds and needed the rein aids.

Take my opinion for what it’s worth–I’m pretty new to this too–

but I find the ‘stand’ command to be just as important as ‘ho.’ I like to ask for ho, stand, then stop and take a couple of deep breaths. The horse usually follows the relax in the lines and does the same.

[DMK]

you could go on for days and not resolve the blinker debate (I’m firmly on the blinker side, but my current pony is in no way a candidate for no blinkers).

But the one thing I will say about using blinkers on ground work BEFORE hitching up is that you will learn how much of your voice commands are actually understood as voice commands as opposed to voice plus visual cues we cannot help but do. In other words, I learned that small, subconscious shoulder dip I make when saying “canTER” was actually the command for canter. Oops. Back to the drawing board!

(but that is something I am happy we sorted out before he was hitched up!)

[Hopeless]

I was SO happy with my boy today. I went back to bitless and an open bridle, what I have been using for the most part. I attached the sapling to the the outside and ground drove him, it fell, I picked it up. Did it both sides and then did a little with the sapling on the inside.

I am not sure if my horse was calm or just resigned to my crazy antics, but he listened to all my commands and didn’t spook at all. Going to do more with it, but so far doing well!

[Mulligan314]

@DMK

you could go on for days and not resolve the blinker debate (I’m firmly on the blinker side, but my current pony is in no way a candidate for no blinkers).

But the one thing I will say about using blinkers on ground work BEFORE hitching up is that you will learn how much of your voice commands are actually understood as voice commands as opposed to voice plus visual cues we cannot help but do. In other words, I learned that small, subconscious shoulder dip I make when saying “canTER” was actually the command for canter. Oops. Back to the drawing board!

(but that is something I am happy we sorted out before he was hitched up!)

I have a young gelding that I am starting. I am in the intermediate of switching from round pen/longe work voice/visual/body language commands to moving those voice commands to behind his motion all the time, so he does not have the visual/body language aids. It has been very interesting to watch the gelding work out the change. His first time in long lines was rough. He was confused - which was my fault - I’ve only ever worked with horses who are already started; he is my first to start from scratch. I realized quickly why he was so confused…he seemed to be asking, ‘Why are you saying ‘whoa’ when you are still behind my shoulder?!?’ haha… He figured it out quickly and our next adventures went much better. He’s a smart kid. None-the-less, body language and visual cues are huge and you are totally right that my ‘whoa’ command was really me stepping slightly in front of his shoulder line…it was not coming from my verbalization. It will be interesting to find out what others holes are present when I put him into a closed bridle. The one I have for his harness does not fit yet(his body is growing faster than his petite head…piggy piggy), so I may just buy blinkers to put over his open bridle. Anyways, thank you for bringing this up because I was a little annoyed with myself for causing him the confusion.

[goodhors]

You might try a racing hood with half-cup blinkers as a starting point. Put it on UNDER the bridle to prevent gaps in the cheekpieces behind his eyes, as the long reins are pulled. Keep the reins/lines low on his sides, not up on his back. You have full body control with horse BETWEEN the lines, outside line around his rump and back to your hands.