Getting Jumped Out of the Tack

[riverinthewoods]

Hi everyone, some quick background before my question…sorry for the novel!

I rode in the hunters as a young kid and then in college for IHSA and did some c-rated show series. I have been ‘eventing’ for the last few years or so and doing some dressage shows. Very low level, not competitive, etc. I have been thinking about transitioning to doing some hunter shows next year because I’m not sure my guy is brave enough for XCountry and I want to take it easy.

10 y/o OTTB gelding, almost 17 hands, not too big bodied just tall and starting to actually fill out. He has a neat jump and I have felt pretty safe on him thus far which is why I bought him. I hadn’t been jumping too consistently because of confidence issues with my old horse (too much horse for me), but we’ve done a single jump up to 2’6 together and he was perfect (a little lazy but great otherwise). We’ve also done some small grids or courses but nothing major.

He came off the track late and went to a jumper rider for a bit. He can put together a simple course but doesn’t have much knowledge of pole work or bounce work/grids. We’ve been working on cavalettis and trying to up the amount of poles in a row. I kinda took a step back from jumping with him since his flat needed help and we were having saddle issues.

So back to the reason for this post - he jumps me out of the tack. He is a neat jumper with his knees and legs together and very athletic but he will jump me out of the tack over fences either just a little bit where it pushes my legs out and back (his barrel fills out over the fence as he uses his whole body) or more recently he literally jumped me completely out of the tack and I didn’t have a horse underneath of me when I landed :no:

I get that this is definitely a rider fitness thing but I’m wondering if anyone has some advice here for what I can do? I read one other thread here where people recommended really anchoring my heels and working on my lower leg and keeping it forward. I need to improve my eq but am at a loss because I’ve never had this happen to me before and I don’t want to gain this bad habit moving forward.

This is only an issue with him as with any other horses or ponies I ride at the barn, my position is good, heels are down, etc. I have been working on getting him more forward and tend to use my leg too much. We are working on this because it’s definitely giving me a chair seat but we (my trainer and I) are truly starting to wonder if the way that the saddle fits me is affecting how I am riding. I am thinking of riding another horse to see how I do and if it makes a difference. Unfortunately I kinda got suckered into an almost custom saddle ($$$$) since his back is super hard to fit and I thought it would just take some time but I sometimes feel like I can’t ride in it to save my life. It’s a 2015 Prestige S1. If anyone has ridden in this model I’d love to hear your thoughts.

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=riverinthewoods;8866247]
Hi everyone, some quick background before my question…sorry for the novel!

I rode in the hunters as a young kid and then in college for IHSA and did some c-rated show series. I have been ‘eventing’ for the last few years or so and doing some dressage shows. Very low level, not competitive, etc. I have been thinking about transitioning to doing some hunter shows next year because I’m not sure my guy is brave enough for XCountry and I want to take it easy.

10 y/o OTTB gelding, almost 17 hands, not too big bodied just tall and starting to actually fill out. He has a neat jump and I have felt pretty safe on him thus far which is why I bought him. I hadn’t been jumping too consistently because of confidence issues with my old horse (too much horse for me), but we’ve done a single jump up to 2’6 together and he was perfect (a little lazy but great otherwise). We’ve also done some small grids or courses but nothing major.

He came off the track late and went to a jumper rider for a bit. He can put together a simple course but doesn’t have much knowledge of pole work or bounce work/grids. We’ve been working on cavalettis and trying to up the amount of poles in a row. I kinda took a step back from jumping with him since his flat needed help and we were having saddle issues.

So back to the reason for this post - he jumps me out of the tack. He is a neat jumper with his knees and legs together and very athletic but he will jump me out of the tack over fences either just a little bit where it pushes my legs out and back (his barrel fills out over the fence as he uses his whole body) or more recently he literally jumped me completely out of the tack and I didn’t have a horse underneath of me when I landed :no:

I get that this is definitely a rider fitness thing but I’m wondering if anyone has some advice here for what I can do? I read one other thread here where people recommended really anchoring my heels and working on my lower leg and keeping it forward. I need to improve my eq but am at a loss because I’ve never had this happen to me before and I don’t want to gain this bad habit moving forward.

This is only an issue with him as with any other horses or ponies I ride at the barn, my position is good, heels are down, etc. I have been working on getting him more forward and tend to use my leg too much. We are working on this because it’s definitely giving me a chair seat but we (my trainer and I) are truly starting to wonder if the way that the saddle fits me is affecting how I am riding. I am thinking of riding another horse to see how I do and if it makes a difference. Unfortunately I kinda got suckered into an almost custom saddle ($$$$) since his back is super hard to fit and I thought it would just take some time but I sometimes feel like I can’t ride in it to save my life. It’s a 2015 Prestige S1. If anyone has ridden in this model I’d love to hear your thoughts.[/QUOTE]

A simple thing but I sometimes need a reminder - don’t be too proud to grab mane.

[findeight]

Possible he is trying too hard and over jumping because he has not built up the balance and muscle to rock back, push off, reach over and land going away which is what a good jump requires. In other words, he’s not following through with his body.

If you are a little timid/defensive (perfectly OK) it’s possible you aren’t releasing adequately, sitting too far back and opening up to early or that his previous Jumper rider got into his face too much and he’s all backed off. Plus skipped a whole bucket full of flatwork, grids and gymnastics that build the proper muscle and balance.

Hard to know without video but willing to bet you are going way to slow and picking at him…BTDT. Typical nervous Ammie approach that creates over jumping.

Can you post a link to video? And ditto the reach for hus ears and grab mane, don’t let go until you are three strides away on landing, he won’t go anywhere…if he wanted to hurt you, he would have already and he’s not going anywhere.

[Foxglove6]

I’ve been getting jumped out of the tack lately too. Mostly for jumps that are 2’6", which is towards the highest I’ve jumped. At 2’ and even 2’3", I do pretty well and my lower legs stays where I put them (the little bastards). But when the jumps are higher I get jumped really far out of the tack. My horse only really started jumping with me and my trainer when I bought him May 2015. I think our issue is a combo of green (ish) to jumping horse over jumps things that look big to him, inexperienced rider (me) freaks out and takes my leg off, and I am not really WITH him when he jumps. I know it’s not the same as your situation but it feels similar.

My trainer’s suggestions are that I do more to strengthen my leg. I’m adding more no-stirrup work back into my hacks, as well as up up downs. I’m practicing 2 point while trotting and keeping my hip back.

I’m really curious what other folks suggest as I’m willing to try anything to fix this.

[541hunter]

I’m in the process of moving up to the 3’ and I’ve been getting jumped loose a lot in lessons (not helped by a couple weeks off after show season!) and at shows. I get defensive, which makes me get caught off guard when he jumps and then I chair seat. Or, alternatively, I work REALLY REALLY HARD at “getting out of my horse’s way” and throw my whole body forward, reins to the ears, and then promptly reward him by slamming back in the saddle too early :lol:

What works for me is making sure I’m releasing a stride or two in front of the jump, getting into an appropriate jumping position for the height (i.e., not laying up his neck!), and grabbing mane, ESPECIALLY if I’m not sure when he’s going to take off. Sitting down too much in front of the jump makes me want to make too big of a move with my body, which can either affect when he wants to jump (and then I chair seat!), or gives me whiplash because my body is too quick. But if I’m already in my two point with soft reins a stride or two away, he just jumps up to meet me and there’s no problem. And there’s the added benefit of nicer form from him, since he’s not afraid I’m going to stiff him in the mouth!

Saddles can definitely influence your position, but even in the worst saddle you should be able to avoid the full-on chair seat.

[findeight]

Nothing wrong with a Prestige but you need to sit it properly, not open up your hip angle into a chair seat. Lots of work in all three gaits in two point, probably would take some Eq centered flat lessons to get stronger.

[JoannaHCR]

I have this issue with one of my geldings A LOT. Saddle has helped, I got a Barnsby Diablo with nice chunky knee and thigh blocks, riding a bit more forward has helped also. My guy jumps cracks his back pretty hard a lot, we jump anywhere from 2’6" to 4’, I don’t find that height is as big of a factor as spreads.

I’ve recently made a lot of progress, I ride mostly by myself, and keep my horses at home, I set up 2 triples in my ring at a low height and jump them frequently. One is 2 one strides set on a more open stride, 2 verticals to an oxer, the other is a quiet one to a normal two, all verticals. I feel like these have helped me find the right rhythm for him. If you aren’t already, try riding in full seat breeches, it’s a little thing, but I’ve found it helpful.

Good luck–I hope any part of this helps!

[riverinthewoods]

Thank you for your suggestions!

My release improved a ton since having some issues with that previously, I’m pretty off his face over and to the fence but I think I need to ride with a neck strap again just as a good reminder. He definitely does need some more fitness over fences so that could be a big thing too that we need to improve. I am going to be concentrating on lots of flat work and have been in my weekly lessons. I haven’t done much jumping lately but have a hunter pace coming up and I might want to pop over a few jumps before hand so that we can do a couple out there but nothing too big.

I’m not saying there’s anything wrong with the saddle it’s more less how the saddle fits me (it fits him) because my eq has gone downhill in it. I took out the knee blocks because my saddle fitter said they were potentially making me sit too far back and ended up misplacing one. I’m wondering if they will help set my leg a little bit better as it’s been moving to the front of the saddle regardless of stirrup length. Short stirrups definitely help though with position, I think they were on the long side the day I fell off but we were going over a small vertical after having jumped a crossrail so I didn’t think anything of it. I had a weird experience with this saddle fitter and I’m starting to regret my purchase a bit because I’m not in love with the saddle and it was very expensive.

[IPEsq]

http://www.doversaddlery.com/sekur-grip-sadl-tite/p/X1-1068/

[DunByMistake]

I bought a HUGE 17.2 ISH this summer who was basically green broke at 9. Have been teaching him to jump. He definitely lacks fitness and strength (particularly weak in his back) so he tends to launch off his front end and then land in a puddle on the back side of jumps. I was really struggling to stay with him and would land with my balance in front of pommel and my legs swinging.

My coach figured out I was opening my hip angle too much. In my effort to keep my shoulders back (since he’s green), I was sitting up too much in my approach to jumps. Then when I got there, I was a bit behind the motion and the launching motion of his front end was yanking me out of saddle. I started focusing on coming into jumps in a slight two point to keep my hip angle closed but focusing on keeping my shoulders back. This helped me stay with him over jumps but still be strong in my back.

I would suggest on going in and out of two point on flat and making sure your horse stays a consistent tempo. Then when you approach jumps and go into two point a couple strides early, your horse will have practiced staying consistent and won’t speed up on your approach.

[equest]

[QUOTE=longtimelurker;8866276]
A simple thing but I sometimes need a reminder - don’t be too proud to grab mane. :)[/QUOTE]

I have no shame in my mane-grabbing game with my greenie.

Since I’ve been focused on flatwork schooling with my big green horse for 8 months, I haven’t been jumping much at all and mostly little stuff that he would step right over. Now he is just beginning to jump over 2’, and now that we are jumping more solid 2’3" ish gates/boxes, he is finally developing a good bascule which is awesome but requires me to stay with him!

I think some grid/gymnastic work, and practice keeping that steady canter as DunByMistake referred to, will go along way for your position OP.

And remember even professionals will grab mane at times.

[Pippigirl]

For me, if I was getting jumped loose, it was because I wasn’t keeping my shoulders up enough and engaging my core. Coming into the jump I was getting slightly ahead and dropping my shoulders. As the horse jumps up and over, it would knock me forward and off balance.

[BroncoMo]

So in my attempt to contribute to this, I’ll start off by saying I’m super green to over fences (came from a QH all around and HUS background). But, for what it’s worth I have a greenie that has a tendency to pony lope up to a fence (he was a HUS futurity horse for me before we started jumping, so he moves as slow as a snail), and he likes to run himself up under the fence. He then just about goes vertical, taking off from an inappropriately close distance, and come straight down again inappropriately close. This will effectively jump me out of my tack and leave me scrambling for mane.

His attitude when he does this… It’s almost like it’s too easy for him to even put the effort in to (he is super talented and athletic and has always enjoyed the challenge of moving up in height), and he runs himself up that close almost for the fun of it. So what we have discovered is aside from him needing a ton of leg to keep an appropriate pace, I just about have to ask him to take a long(er) spot in order to make him reach and keep the “up” to a minimum (or at least under control). I’ve found a little extra leg when I want to take off and a voice cue has kept the aerobatics to a minimum. And when I say minimum, I mean only over the scary ass round top (my wrists still hurt from that one…)

Like I said, I’m still new to this so take it for what its worth. But asking for a longish spot and an encouraging voice cue has helped me avoid being airborne as much.

[findeight]

Placement poles are your friend here as is developing the right canter/pace before going to jump.

Something else here, horse doesn’t really jump until somewhere between 2’6" and 3’, some big horses closer to 3’3". By jump mean airtime when all 4 feet are off the ground at the same time. The 2’-2’3" " jumps are just lope overs that do not require anything but cantering forward and steering. No rock back, push off, reach/round over and power away on landing.

Think many riders are entirely too hard on themselves when moving up off the lope overs to actual jumps. It’s a totally different feeling even though it is, or should be, skills that have been mastered over the little stuff. But the rider brain gets too involved and needs to be trained as much as the body…hope that makes sense. Most riders come off a time or two when moving up and feel like they forgot everything they could do over the lower heights, like staying forward and steering/keeping the horse straight.

The same thing happens to more accomplished riders moving from 3’ to 3’6" or to 4’. It’s more step, more power…you feel like you are going too fast and the suckers look huge. Only way to deal is to jump that height at that pace more dropping back/down when weaknesses crop up.

You’ll hear a lot of trainers yelling “Quit thinking and ride the dam* horse” during that move up transition. Hang in there if you are transitioning. You’ll get there.

One caveat, moving up when it’s Green on Green is much more complicated when you get to actual jumps with airtime. Often it’s better to take a few lessons on a BTDT horse that can take a joke so rider can gain confidence while a BTDT rider schools the horse so they can learn to take those jokes and gain confidence.

[Madeline]

About the saddle. If you are finding yourself in a chair seat, your leathers may be too far forward. Go to the auto parts store and get a few inches of radiator hose. Cut it in half and slip a piece onto the stirrup bar ahead of the leather. If that helps, the only thing you have to do is figure out how to move the stirrup bar back…

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

Strength training is good.

I probably shouldn’t comment, because I haven’t jumped in a long time, but I distinctly remember feeling a big difference between 2’6" where I was comfortable, and when we went over 2-9" to 3’ range oxers for the first time. I lost my stirrups, if I recall. What helped me was grabbing mane and grid work. The grid meant I didn’t have to focus on the steering at all and could work on keeping my weight down in my leg.

I also think my stirrups had to go up a hole.

[enp082]

I agree. I had a gelding that would jump very round and powerful. For me, I worked on strengthening my core, not over-releasing and fixing my shoulders… shoulders were probably my biggest issue. Once I fixed (well… maybe made better;)) these three things, I felt a big difference in jumping over bigger fences.

[LockeMeadows]

You may want to shorten your stirrups. If you are reaching for them, you may end up kicking your leg out in front to keep your heals down.

As far as exercises, I like doing up, up, down, down, making sure your leg stays under you and not in front or behind. This will also tighten your core.

I also like standing straight up in my stirrups and coming down SLOWLY until I’m almost laying on the horses neck, making sure my heels are DOWN and leg is under me. You may want to turn your toe slightly to the outside to help you not pinch with your knee when your first begin this exercise. This is done at the trot and you just go from standing straight up and balancing yourself over your stirrups to a very deep 2 point, then back up again. Have someone on the ground to spot you the first couple times to make sure you are staying in the correct position.

[ItchyRichie]

ride w/o stirrups. and not just oh lookie I posting trotted a few laps without stirrups like hack for 40 minutes without them every day makes a huge difference

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Sounds like your current saddle’s balance doesn’t work for you on this horse.