Getting neck down over fences

[jonem004]

Little mare that I’m bringing along has improved a TON over the last 8 months. More adjustable, no longer rushing (can still get quick, but it isn’t frantic like it used to be), building a top line. Things are going great!

The next thing I’d like to pick at is improving her form over smaller fencer. 3ft is really where she starts using herself a bit more and if I get her into a good spot she’ll stretch her neck down and forward a bit, but I want more. I’d also love to encourage this form over smaller fences because she may eventually have a different rider and they may not want to do the height.

Any ideas for exercises to encourage her to use herself this way? Or thoughts on what I might be doing to discourage her from this? Last summer when I got her she would put her head up her hinny in response to any contact and now she’s working round and reaching down and forward on the flat. Will this eventually translate?

[LovesHorses]

Bounces, grids and poles.

[Farosh]

There’s a lot of ways to work on this obviously but I really like lunging my horse over little bounces in the Pessoa training system. She likes it too I think lol she gets bored and lazy in it if I don’t give her something to think about. I’m trying get her more fit but I work so much Saturday and Sunday I rarely have energy to ride her but working her for 20 minutes in the Pessoa system is easy because we have a nice round pen and she practically lunges herself lol I basically sit in the middle and watch her figure it out for herself

[Another-Bay]

@jonem004

3ft is really where she starts using herself a bit more and if I get her into a good spot she’ll stretch her neck down and forward a bit, but I want more. I’d also love to encourage this form over smaller fences because she may eventually have a different rider and they may not want to do the height.

Interesting motive… How small are we talking here? Many horses won’t snap their back over 2’6", not saying this should discourage you from pursuing better form but keeping expectations realistic.

@jonem004

Any ideas for exercises to encourage her to use herself this way? Or thoughts on what I might be doing to discourage her from this? Last summer when I got her she would put her head up her hinny in response to any contact and now she’s working round and reaching down and forward on the flat. Will this eventually translate?

Agreed with @LovesHorses. Also - more relaxation from the mare will help, but also ensure you are releasing sufficiently and not snapping back early on the backside of jumps. That will inhibit a good jump from her.

[RAyers]

Given that extending the neck down over fences has no biomechanical advantage to helping a horse jump, why would you do this?

Several studies examining at how horses jump naturally show that the neck and head come UP a stride out in order to allow the horse to come under with the hind end in order to push off for the jump. If one tries to bring the head and neck down, it hinders the ability of a horse to come off the ground.

As fo flight, the body will follow the head and neck, as they stretch OUT. If they are down, again, you hinder the shape fo the arc of the horse. The body will follow the head.

Here is a nice video of the biomechanics of jumping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oCn3KOsX6w

[DMK]

I think the OP is talking about improving a natural bascule over the top of the fence, not on the approach?

But I agree with you, lowering the head to the base is not good. We specifically call it “digging a hole to the base” and I think of it as a great way to die over an oxer higher than 3’0 (that said, I do not want an inverted horse to the base since he isn’t using optimally his hind end either).

However if you have a relaxed, balanced horse with an open stride and you are not getting a bascule below 3’0, I think you are probably not going to get one period. If he’s not relaxed and carrying himself to the base and away, you need to work on that, but still no guarantees. A horse’s form over fences is a lot like his walk. You can screw it up, but you generally can’t improve it.

[Redlei44]

@RAyers

Given that extending the neck down over fences has no biomechanical advantage to helping a horse jump, why would you do this?

Several studies examining at how horses jump naturally show that the neck and head come UP a stride out in order to allow the horse to come under with the hind end in order to push off for the jump. If one tries to bring the head and neck down, it hinders the ability of a horse to come off the ground.

As fo flight, the body will follow the head and neck, as they stretch OUT. If they are down, again, you hinder the shape fo the arc of the horse. The body will follow the head.

Here is a nice video of the biomechanics of jumping:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oCn3KOsX6w

Neat video, thanks for sharing!

To answer your question, you’d potentially want to see a lower, stretchy, relaxed way of going for hunter over fences classes, where the horses are doing a much different job and showing to a different standard than the GP-level jumpers shown in your video. But of course there is a limit to that - an AQHA hunter under saddle way of going is not appropriate either.

I thought this was a nice video to show the difference (not slo mo, unfortunately) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fCwhwcJyeE

[jonem004]

@DMK

I think the OP is talking about improving a natural bascule over the top of the fence, not on the approach?

But I agree with you, lowering the head to the base is not good. We specifically call it “digging a hole to the base” and I think of it as a great way to die over an oxer higher than 3’0 (that said, I do not want an inverted horse to the base since he isn’t using optimally his hind end either).

However if you have a relaxed, balanced horse with an open stride and you are not getting a bascule below 3’0, I think you are probably not going to get one period. If he’s not relaxed and carrying himself to the base and away, you need to work on that, but still no guarantees. A horse’s form over fences is a lot like his walk. You can screw it up, but you generally can’t improve it.

You are correct, I’m interested in encouraging relaxation and stretching the neck forward in the arc over the fence. The ride up to it is definitely part of the relaxation element, but I definitely don’t want her head pulled down so she has to jump out of a hole.

As far as a bascule over the smaller fences, I’ve known quite a few horses that get flat or sloppy over smaller jumps. I’m really wondering if there’s anything for this?

Little mare seems to just jump across anything without enough height. I’ve been doing bounces over cavelitti, but I feel like she just jumps over her shoulder when I space them closer trying to get her to rock back.

Once things get to a more respectable height she’s better with her front end, uses her back more and her neck stretches more forward, but they have to get kind of big (for me) before she really looks good.

Maybe a 3’6” horse shouldn’t be expected to look good going around the 2ft and my expectations are unrealistic?

[jonem004]

@Redlei44

Neat video, thanks for sharing!

To answer your question, you’d potentially want to see a lower, stretchy, relaxed way of going for hunter over fences classes, where the horses are doing a much different job and showing to a different standard than the GP-level jumpers shown in your video. But of course there is a limit to that - an AQHA hunter under saddle way of going is not appropriate either.

I thought this was a nice video to show the difference (not slo mo, unfortunately) - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_fCwhwcJyeE

Yep, this is the kind of round I’m going for. That is the style of jump I’d like to encourage, even over smaller fences.

[findeight]

Some of it is related to developing self carriage and the muscle to allow the relaxation and stretch and that takes time, Longer then 8 months. There may be conformational issues too. Perhaps she’s not as comfortable as she needs to be to really excell. Yet anyway. Most of that trains out to some extent. Really can’t know without seeing the horse on the flat an over a few fences. Can you post a link if you’ve got some?

Most horses don’t try very hard over tiny fences because they don’t have to, that’s why many, if not most, Pros don’t jump many low fences ( as in below 2’6”). Can develop ugly habits and cause horse to lose respect for the fences. They do fewer jumps and tons more correct flatwork to develop balance and muscle.

How oldis the horse, what breed or type and what was it doing before you bought it. If you don’t own it, does it have any other riders? These things effects our training options.

[PNWjumper]

@jonem004

Maybe a 3’6” horse shouldn’t be expected to look good going around the 2ft and my expectations are unrealistic?

This is an accurate sentence.

[jonem004]

@PNWjumper

This is an accurate sentence.

That makes sense. I guess not every horse has to do every thing. I’ll stick to our dressage based diet keep the jumps up where she looks good.

[DMK]

to put it another way, when I see a horse jumping a 2’0 fence like I would love to see them jump a 3’6 fence, my first thought is “is this a scopeless wonder?” Sure, some exceptional horses have a severe wood allergy regardless of height, but it is a valid concern if you were looking at prospects and hadn’t tested them for scope under tack just yet.

But if you have a horse rolling over the shoulder, even at little fences, and you are getting her there correctly/she’s not pulling you past the distance, it sounds to me like she needs more work learning how to carry herself (or potentially veterinary evaluation of WHY she won’t carry herself if you have been working on that for a while)