I’ve been riding an older appendix mare that is very girthy. No matter how easy I take it on her girthing up, ex. starting loose and gradually tightening, giving her a treat, she pins her ears and tries to take a bite out of me. She almost got me once and we had a CTJ and she hasn’t forgotten. But on the cross ties, it’s always pinned ears, grumpy face turning her head toward me like to try biting. Once I’m on, she’s fine. Her saddle has been professionally fit to her, we have a chiro appointment first part of June, but is this sometimes common with a horse with ulcers? She’s eating alfalfa and it’s known the buffer the acids causing ulcers so not sure. Any ideas for keeping pony happy?
Ulcers is a good place to start. Does she have any other symptoms - ie. poor condition, spooky, slow to shed winter coat, etc? What is she like being touched and brushed on belly? Is it the same reaction? If you get ulcer medication and it is ulcers, you should have definite improvement within a week. Omeprazole was a miracle drug for my gelding last year.
I would take a good look at your girth set up too. Is the girth sitting in the girth groove after you ride? I had to get my gelding a fitted girth due to his shape. A traditional girth sat too far back and was squeezing him uncomfortably. He had some other issues including suspected hind gut acidosis which we’re working through but his anxiety about girth definitely improved with the shaped one. Give the girth a good check over too. I used to ride a horse that was a bit girthy. Upon closer inspection of his leather girth, there was some stitching on the inside that was poorly done and creating a sharp bump. Could not have felt good once it was tightened up. Switched to a fleece lined girth and he was quite happy again.
No on the other symptoms. She looks gorgeous, all shed out very shiny coat. I’ll check the girth. It’s a nice leather one but you never know. However, my dressage girth is fleece lined and she’s the same. I’ll look at the positioning and make sure it’s not pinching.
Have you ever tried just pulling a leg wrap around her girth area (like a surcingle)? This will help determine if the issue is tack related, a learned response or actual discomfort in the girth area. What is she like when you groom her girth area?
Is the behaviour new?
Not new behavior shes been like this all along. No issues grooming either. I’ll try the leg wrap thing.
My 30yo mare has done that all her life. It’s a mare thing. Does it when being groomed, tacked up etc.etc.
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I once saw Tom Dorrance and Larry Mahan on an RFD episode deal with a girthy Trakehner. It begins with Larry doing a normal girthing (not rough or anything) and the horse swings it head around really tries to bite. After discussing possible physical issues and finding none, Tom takes the lead shank in his left hand and has his cane in the right. He tells Larry to apply girth pressure and the head starts to move. Old Tom whacks that horse HARD under the jaw with his cane. This was no “love tap.” He then tells Larry to again apply pressure, the horse moves his head, and Tom hits it again as hard as the first time. It takes five or six whacks (IIRC; it’s been a few years back) before the horse stops moving his head. Larry then girths up the horse normally.
When they were done Tom looks and Larry and says, “We didn’t train this horse not to bite; we trained it not to move its head when it was being girthed up. This is the beginning of a correction, not the end.”
So if you’ve eliminated the common physical issues then you’re left with a behavioral issue. Sounds like it’s one of long standing. It might have actually begun as a physical issue but that might not be what it is now. The above is a real alternative from one of the godfathers of “natural horsemanship.”
This is a dangerous behavior that needs to be addressed.
G.
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Have the Chiro check to see if she has a rib out. That is very painful and will cause this kind of behavior or worse!
Please do not punish her for this behavior. It is almost always because of pain. I don’t always trust saddle fitters either. The horse is the final judge. Sore back or ill fitting saddle is also often a cause of this behavior.
That is my opinion. I work with problem horses all the time.
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She may be cold backed. There are different stages of it. Every horse is different.
When you say you do the girth up slowly. How slowly?
Catch with halter. Tie. Brush saddle and girth only. Drop girth down on offside. Tighten so it is so loose it is not touching her. You are allowing her to warm to the saddle and girth. Continue to groom. Pick out hooves, put boots on. Put bridle on, etc. Every now and then tighten the girth one ot two holes on each side. Walk to mounting block. By the time you get there the girth should be tight enough to mount. It has taken you no extra time to tack.
^^^ This. There is never an excuse for a horse to act in an aggressive manner towards you. Absolutely get after her and don’t cater to her bad behavior. OP, you’ve probably helped this behavior along since you are giving her treats for pinning her ears at you and being grumpy. You need to do the opposite and get after her when she pins her ears and acts grumpy.
Before you get after her, rule out ALL potential pain issues. She is trying to tell you something.
One very common cause of girthiness that often goes overlooked is pectoral muscle injury, tightness or pinching. Most saddle fitters completely ignore the line of the girth over the pectorals when fitting a saddle.
My mare used to have bouts of refusing to go forward – to the point where she would stand and double-barrel. Full lameness work-up, complete blood panel, several CTJs, saddle fitter. Nada.
Bodyworker found the tight pectorals. I switched to a saddle that runs the girth a half-inch further back, and bought her a gel-lined girth. She has been happy and forward ever since, and if she jumped great before, she jumps even better now.
She’s a fairly new horse to me and she exhibited this same behavior when I tried her. She’s gotten better and yesterday just looked at me without pinned ears when I tightened up. By slowly, I place saddle on and do up girth just enough to keep it on so first hole. Continue getting ready, pick feet, put on helmet, put on bridle, walk out stop on the way to tighten another hole. Tighten once more before mounting. I’ll be interested to see what the chiro finds.
I have a couple of horses like this. One is my 21 year old mare who I’ve had for 15-ish years now. She was a total train wreck body-wise when she came to me. The kid who had her had been riding her in a saddle that fit terribly and I’m sure she had a lot of pain to deal with. I fixed her up and had her in a regular chiro/bodywork program. The snarky sharky behavior never went away. She still makes faces and acts like she’s going to bite me every. single. time. I tighten the girth. Over the years she’s had times where her ribs are a bit wonky, but the vast majority of the “bad behavior” has been during times when I can all but guarantee that she’s not hurting. And ulcers have never been an issue for her.
My TB gelding is the same way. He came off of the track in really bad shape and we spent years getting him put back together. He shows in FEI GPs now, so I can pretty safely say that he’s in decent shape body-wise (and I invest a lot to keep him that way!), but he still spends the whole girthing up time making faces and trying to stomp on my feet. With that being said, when I actually tighten the girth the last two holes, he immediately starts stretching his neck out and yawning. Oh and I will agree with DarkBayUnicorn - he gets really tight in his pectorals and I think that has contributed to the behavior over the years. And he did have a run with ulcers, but his girthing behavior never changed either way.
Short story - I think both of my horses learned the behavior when it was uncomfortable for them to have the girth tightened, but continued the behavior after getting “fixed.” So I don’t know that I would rush to the assumption that something hurts now. I would certainly look into it if it were my horse, but especially if she’s an older horse it could just be a learned behavior from long ago.
I ended up with her from an owner who said she was “too much horse” for her. I agree, she’s a goer and likes to move out but nothing unsafe about her under saddle. I think you’re right PNW, this is a learned behavior and not likely to change much. The treat thing was an attempt to make saddling a pleasant experience.
It happens a lot with school horses as Staff reef the girth up in a hurry. I was working with a grand prix school horse.
As you described above after 10 months of me girthing him up slowly he still snaked when even reaching for the girth.
I took some time and very very very extremely gently gave a tiny eeny weeny little tug on the curb every time I reached for the girth.
Within 2 minutes he never did it again for me.
