Girthy

[LadyB]

• Tack is regularly checked, and he gets consistent bodywork.
• Chestnut (of course )
• Feet done every 4 weeks
• Has Kissing Spine (treated and currently at its best)
• Routinely gets hock injections as needed
• Fed 3x daily with hay cubes + on a round bale during the day
• Solo turnout (because he tends to break himself with buddies)
• Ulcers aren’t a major concern right now, but not ruling them out
• He is clipped - which I do wonder if that may be causing some burning sensations

What I’ve done so far:

• Cranial Sacral Massage/Osteo came last week—she noted some tightness over his ribs.
• Chiropractor is coming today.
• Switched from my Paramount anatomical girth to a basic neoprene girth to see if it helped—no change.

[Marla_000]

Had one sensitive ASB who hated every girth Unless it was
Inside a ’ furry, fuzzy ’ girth sleeve, then he was fine.
My mare does same bitey things
On her right side- when she’s ulcery

[MapleFarm]

I just got a wow freespace girth (used) and my horse that’s been mildly girthy for 4 years is now not at all. She would get worse on the left side, I think from habit. I was convinced there wasn’t a girth that could fix it after trying like 10 different ones, but it did. Lots of people find the stubben equisoft to work for the same issue, but it did not come large enough for my gal.

Not saying a girth will solve your problems, but maybe you could find one of these that take pressure off the muscles alongside the sternum to try?

[EventingMaff]

Those symptoms are my go-to indicators of ulcers for my mare. She has PSSM2 so is susceptible to ulcers but also will be girthy if she’s having a flare. I can distinguish between ulcer-flare and PSSM2 flare by:

• Is she angry about saddle being put on (PSSM2) or girth being done up (Ulcers)
• Is she pinning ears and balking at start of ride but works out of it (PSSM2) or starts calm and escalates with a mix of trying to drop to walk or getting hot and rushy, particularly after trot (Ulcers)

If I were you, I’d treat for ulcers and see if a week or two on ulcer meds reduces behaviors

[skydy]

@LadyB

Ulcers aren’t a major concern right now, but not ruling them out

@LadyB

Additionally, he’s started biting at me under saddle after a walk break from the trot, which is really odd for him.

He is trying to tell you in no uncertain terms that something is going on with him. It’s time to get the vet out and scope for ulcers.

If he keeps trying to bite you when you are riding him I would stop riding him until you find out what is the matter with him, before his behavior escalates and you’re injured. He’s telling you he’s hurting. Listen to him.

[dmveventer]

Sounds like ulcers to me, curious why you don’t think that’s a likely culprit? Since the symptoms changed before you tried swapping out your girths and then didn’t improve when you did I wouldn’t be looking at tack as the likely issue here, especially since your dressage and jump girths are already such different styles.

Do you notice any differences in how he goes between your dressage and jump girths? Between the two they already cover a lot of bases for shape and material. I would add in one of the forward-contoured girths like the TSF ones and maybe one with memory foam as an alternative to leather or fleece. Once you figure out what shape and what material he likes you can find a girth that puts them both together, and try to replicate that as closely as possible on both saddles. If there is an underlying medical issue though the trial and error will be a lot harder to interpret, so I’d still be looking at ulcers first before making any more tack changes.

[rockymouse]

To add to the ulcer chorus, I had two who lived the life of Riley - they lived out, in a mixed herd, lots and lots of hay, shelter, low and easy work, no contests or showing and they very rarely left the property. As no-stress as a horse’s life can be.

My vet consequently didn’t believe me when I said I thought each had ulcers (at different times). One mare was cinchy and started to bite the air when I girthed her up, even though I did it in stages, as I walked her around. After trotting, she’d turn and viciously bite at my stirrups. I appreciate that she never ever tried to bite me…but she was telling me as best she could that something was wrong.

Both horses did well after I treated for ulcers on my own. I used Abler pop rocks the first time, for the gelding with classic symptoms of grumpiness and going off his grain. Later, for the mare, I used Nexium with success.

[GraceLikeRain]

Actually treating for ulcers currently based off of a similar but less concerning set of symptoms. We flagged it when she developed one sided (right) girth sensitivity but nothing weird popped up with the body worker, chiro, or saddle fitter. By sensitivity I mean literally a muscle wave with a slight ear flick and I felt like she wanted to hop into the canter rather than the trot from a standard aid, which just seemed a little odd.

Trying to bite from the saddle is like wow red flag level discomfort. That would have me sprinting to scope. They are designed to mask pain and your horse is screaming ow. I wouldn’t waste money on a girth right now.

And if you’re in the “no ulcer point response” or “looks great” camp. This big girl is 1,400 lbs of glossy happy go lucky girl with zero response to other “acupuncture points” and who happily was working at all three gaits. Suspecting ulcers first is never a bad approach.

[LadyB]

Thanks - Very well aware he’s trying to say something - hence my post, and my digging into the issue. Its also why I was very hesitant to post - because of posts like yours. They like to make us feel like were doing nothing and just sitting at a keyboard asking random people questions. When you are only getting a small portion of the story.

Thank you for being that post.

[LadyB]

I ran a course of Ulcer Meds, it didn’t do anything - this is why I said it might not be ulcers, because I’ve run a round of meds.

Saddle - no difference with girth or saddle change, goes very much the same in both.

Thanks all who were kind and not judging.
Still feel like a shitty horse owner, thanks.

[Quincy]

@LadyB

Thanks - Very well aware he’s trying to say something - hence my post, and my digging into the issue. Its also why I was very hesitant to post - because of posts like yours. They like to make us feel like were doing nothing and just sitting at a keyboard asking random people questions. When you are only getting a small portion of the story.

This isn’t aimed at you, but sometimes I think it’s good when someone makes “that post.” Because sometimes people do need to be told bluntly not to continue doing what they’re doing because the horse is in pain. And perhaps others who are reading learn that it’s ok to not ride your horse until the problem is figured out. Some people (again, not aiming this at you) are programmed to just keep working through pain and apply it to their horse. And as usual, it’s hard to communicate everything through posts, so people will reply to the info they are given.

[FjordBCRF]

@skydy

He is trying to tell you in no uncertain terms that something is going on with him. It’s time to get the vet out and scope for ulcers.

@Quincy

This isn’t aimed at you, but sometimes I think it’s good when someone makes “that post.” Because sometimes people do need to be told bluntly not to continue doing what they’re doing because the horse is in pain. And perhaps others who are reading learn that it’s to not ride your horse until the problem is figured out. Some people (again, not aiming this at you) are programmed to just keep working through pain and apply it to their horse. And as usual, it’s hard to communicate everything through posts, so people will reply to the info they are given.

Strong agree on both of these.

Not pointed at you OP, but I’ve seen several instances recently where the horse is clearly unhappy and in pain and the last thing the owners do is get the vet involved. Drives me nuts.

[StormyDay]

Has he always done this or is it new behavior?
If he’s always done it you might try giving a cookie when you tighten the girth. Some horses learn the behavior of being bitey when their girth is done up when they were in pain and then continue to do it. I’d give a cookie every time you tighten on either side for a few rides and then don’t offer the cookie; see if the behavior becomes ‘umm where is my cookie?’ Or if it reverts back to ‘I bite you’. If it reverts back you know there’s something wrong to look for.

[skydy]

I’m sorry that my post offended you, that wasn’t my intention.

I don’t think you are a bad horse owner, just that you need to get the vet out and have your horse scoped and examined. You can’t tell if he has ulcers or if the ulcer treatment you gave him was effective without scoping him. He may have hind gut ulcers. You need a vet to rule this out.

[CanteringCarrot]

It’s a toss up, which is why I’d scope. Which ulcer meds did you use? Some respond to some med protocols better or quicker than others it seems.

I’ve had one horse that has grade 3 ulcers that had no symptoms other than being girthy. I practically had to beg a vet to scope him because he, “looked good otherwise and lived in such a way that he shouldn’t have been prone to ulcers.” He was an internalizer though, so if you didn’t really know him, I could see why he might seem fine.

Then there’s my other horse that was girthy but scoped clean. I was shocked. With him it was just finding a girth that he liked and tightening the girth at a glacial pace. When he had bodywork done he didn’t have any soreness, I think he was just sensitive.

So if I really wanted answers, then I’d scope. Especially if he’s girthy with all girths and saddles.

[Against_All_Odds2]

My guy was the same a few weeks ago.

I added the max dose of Elevate ( which I think was like 3 scoops am & pm) and my vet gave me generic compounded omeprozole/Sucrelufate (sp?) mixed syringes. I gave him 1x per day 30 mins before morning feed for 13 days (she only had 13 doses on her). He is a much happier chestnut I have kept him on 1x scoop am & pm of elevate and added RiteTrac am &pm.

He typically does best with some vit E on board. He has been tested for all blood related issues and his levels are all within range but HE does better with the above.

[GraceLikeRain]

@LadyB

I ran a course of Ulcer Meds, it didn’t do anything - this is why I said it might not be ulcers, because I’ve run a round of meds

The tricky thing is that you can both treat and still have ulcers. Depending on what type of ulcers you have, omeprazole does almost nothing. Even when omeprazole is effective combining it with misoprostol or sucralfate may also be needed. I went through hell treating ulcers with a prior horse and even using the vet approved treatment it took months. I know that’s the last thing someone wants to hear but I really think scoping is a logical investment of resources if you can swing it. If it is them, you can sink a lot of money into other solutions and still end up back here.

[skydy]

I don’t understand why, when someone had done everything they can think of to address their horse’s discomfort, the vet is their last resort.

When someone suggests that having the vet out is the answer to the question “what should I do now”, why is that advice met with such rancor?

[Lusoluv]

Money.

[Apocalyptic_Pony]

Seconding this. My mare was a 5.5 body condition, eating tons of hay and very little grain, and had grade 3-4 ulcers when we scoped. I treated, rescoped, and she was clean. But I do think that she’s having some recurrent ulcers again for similar symptoms as the OP: girthy and biting at my feet occasionally. Highly recommend the OP scope or do a full treatment (30 days).