I saw a separate thread where someone mentioned glucosamine was avoided for a horse with prior laminitis, IR and/or Cushing’s. Can anyone else chime in on this? My pony has been on GLC for a few years. He is 23 now and still in light work. He did founder on his hinds 2 yrs ago but had a great recovery luckily. Sound barefoot for turnout on soft ground, and otherwise in hind trail boots for turnout and trail rides. Has overall arthritis due to age so has been on 1/4 previcox for years as well.
Will also check w/vet but wondering what your experiences have been and what supplements you recommend in place of ones with the glucosamine? Thanks in advance!
Please do not believe what you read online from anonymous internet posters. You may as well ask your dog for advice in many instances. If someone cares to share their credentials with you, then give their suggestions proper weight, but otherwise be careful. Katy Watts, who is happy to list her name and credentials, has good information here:
I don’t see that she has an article on glucosamine, but I have not read them all.
Here is another site which has links to studies, but there are no studies on horses wrt insulin resistance and glucosamine. The studies they list are on humans:
"TLS commment: Research has shown that glucosamine can produce/increase insulin resistance, but some studies have found no effect on glucose or insulin. So best to be cautious, but not necessarily avoid using it with an insulin resistant horse, as long as the insulin resistance is not uncontrolled. If the horse is already having glucosamine with no obvious ill effects, it’s probably ok to continue. If the horse hasn’t had glucosamine before and you want to use it for joint problems, introduce carefully, monitor closely and stop giving it at the first sign of any unexplained foot pain/sensitivity. In all cases with an insulin resistant horse, best to check insulin (and glucose) levels regularly."
I started that thread and I did not say “glucosamine was avoided for horses with prior laminitis, IR and/or cushings”.
What I said was that I was looking for non-glucosamine options because I didn’t want to give it to my horse that had foundered badly because my vet and I didn’t think it was worth the risk for my horse because of his specific experience and history.
I’m sorry - didn’t mean to put words into you post or misquote you. In general it sounded like you were avoiding glucosamine due to prior founder and you post made me think about that. I never thought about his joint supps and how they might affect his sugar levels. I am very careful about things like treats, electrolytes (don’t give them - use salt when needed). Adding that he had a fasting sugar test in-clinic. It was several blood draws over time, fasted after he was given something to challenge his sugar levels. He kinda’ failed it big time. So he is SUPER sensitive so anything that may help is always worth researching IMO.
i have a horse whose insulin was THREE TIMES higher than the “high average” when he was diagnosed in 2012. There is no way this side of Hades and back that I am going to risk feeding him glucosamine – I don’t care what the rest of the horse world thinks.
We’ve (vet and I) also opted to not vaccinate my horse due to the possible risks associated. Horse has always been super sensitive and reactive to vaccines even before he foundered. He is sensitive to everything!
There have been cases in which complicated founder cases have pulled through and became riding sound and then were vaccinated and had a flare up and died. Before everyone gets all crazy, my horses live at home with me and do not show or go off property. Yes, I have gone over all of the pros and cons of this with my vet.
I have a non-PPID horse with no laminitic history who developed laminitis as part of a severe systemic vaccine reaction. Laminitis has not historically been among the known risks of vaccination, so it is poorly reported and studied. But there is a growing body of anecdotal reports that suggest that it is a risk for both metabolically challenged and normal horses, especially those with a history of systemic vaccine reactions. This is a good example of how anecdotal information and the experiences of individuals can be valuable, even without expert study. Hopefully the science will soon catch up on systemic vaccine reactions in IR/PPID vs. metabolically normal horses, vaccine-associated laminitis, whether PPID increases that risk, and the relationships between immune and metabolic processes. There has been some work at Texas A&M on some of these questions already.
I still vaccinate my horse for the deadly things that can be contracted without contact with an infected horse (e.g. rabies, tetanus), with each vaccine administered separately and in conjunction with a pretty intense prophylactic treatment regimen. I was extremely skeptical about this protocol when my vet first recommended it, but it has been working so far. For a horse with a history of metabolic-induced laminitis, the risk-benefit analysis might work out to be clearly not in favor of vaccination. It sounds like Jungle Monkey’s horse is one of the unfortunate few in that highest risk category where from the info available, the risk of dying of tetanus seems to be far far lower than the risk of dying of vaccine-induced laminitis.
For a metabolically challenged horse who does not have a history of laminitis, the history of vaccine reactions in general is one factor that should be considered in evaluating risk. Just like a horse that has tolerated glucosamine for years may not experience significant adverse metabolic consequences from that supplement, a horse that has never reacted to a vaccine may not have the same level of laminitis risk as one who pops hives and goes into muscle convulsions after vaccination. For now these are the things that owners have to decide without much science or expert input to guide them.
I still vaccinate my horse for the deadly things that can be contracted without contact with an infected horse (e.g. rabies, tetanus), with each vaccine administered separately and in conjunction with a pretty intense prophylactic treatment regimen. I was extremely skeptical about this protocol when my vet first recommended it, but it has been working so far. For a horse with a history of metabolic-induced laminitis, the risk-benefit analysis might work out to be clearly not in favor of vaccination. It sounds like Jungle Monkey’s horse is one of the unfortunate few in that highest risk category where from the info available, the risk of dying of tetanus seems to be far far lower than the risk of dying of vaccine-induced laminitis.
QUOTE]
I’ve had two horses that have reactions when multiple vaccinations are given at the same time; my vet also separates them and I give bute the day of and day after. They were both tbs and not laminitis risks, just sensitive red heads. IIRC, it was the flu-rhino that seemed to cause the problem.
Mine is a sensitive redhead too. She had multiple allergic vaccine reactions prior to the laminitis, but it was a combined vaccine that eventually got the feet involved. We now use antihistamines for several days before and after, as well as banamine much like your bute protocol, and make sure the vet is on-site for an hour or two after her vaccination.
There’s some concern that therapies like antihistamines and steroids that diminish the immune response might limit the production of antibodies and render the vaccination less effective, from what I understand. Still, it seems preferable to increased laminitis/anaphylaxis risk or foregoing vaccination entirely. At least for a horse who’s otherwise not a laminitis risk.
Dr Eleanor Getty who has the yahoo site for Cushings/IR horses is strongly against giving glucosamine to horses with this condition. When my horse was diagnosed with Cushings I immediately took him off glucosamine.
