GM is nothing but a bully.

[MistyBlue]

To say that they are the next wave of U.S. int’l show jumping talent, well, I think a lot of these kids will never even make a stab at being a professional rider, or try for the Team. That takes a singular competitive drive. Being a talented rider doesn’t make you a driven competitor, or a good horseperson.

And, man, it is true: I watched the DVD from last year, and the kids were so struggling. There are HUGE holes in their riding skills.

Oh most definitely agree. :yes: Not saying they’re absolutely going anywhere in particular. The students might not all be the caliber to make it pro or top levels. But the teacher certainly is capable of finding the ones that can and helping them get there.

Also agree there are huge holes in the skills and training these days.

Probably why GM’s clinics are still so well attended.

[Lucassb]

[QUOTE=Doctracy;5338826]
Here’s the link. Sorry, it was a lesson, not a clinic so I guess that makes it ok that the horse was left dead in the arena while the lesson went on.
Take your rose colored glasses off and stop hero worshipping, you might notice how cruel and callus he can be.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35814[/QUOTE]

Oh, please. Ten years ago, yes, GM taught a clinic and in a freak accident, a horse died. Doing an exercise that hundreds of people have done, before and since, with no problems whatsoever.

I understand some people will judge the man by that one very tragic incident. Most will understand that in this sport, accidents happen, sometimes very, very tragic ones with extremely bad consequences. Horses break legs landing from jumps - or in rotational falls when they hit them, perhaps due to rider error. I have personally seen a horse die, coming out of the ring, due to heart failure. It’s not pretty and the rider and trainer involved were inconsolable. But they are accidents. Horrible, yes, absolutely. In many cases, due to circumstances which could have been handled differently, in hindsight.

George Morris is a legend in our sport. That doesn’t mean he is perfect. He is a trainer, not a god. But his expertise is legendary, and he has a resume that few others can match. Those who choose - CHOOSE - to train with him, do so with the full knowledge of what they are signing up for. They WANT the benefit of his expertise, and understand they will be the better for it.

I think it is very telling that the rider who bore the brunt of the criticism was sitting with GM later and laughing over lunch. I imagine she knew he was only doing what he felt he needed to to get her attention, and wasn’t the slightest bit offended by any of his comments. Kind of like using a stick properly on a horse that isn’t minding your leg. Good riders who use a stick to properly school a horse to the leg are not abusive, and GM likewise uses a bit of a tongue lashing the way a good rider would use a stick… as a reminder and reinforcement to produce the right result.

[englishcowgirl]

I wish I had the opportunity to have George Morris “bully” me!!! I would just about die if I got to even audit a clinic. I really don’t think he is too harsh, these girls own peers probably call them worse names. They are not too hard off. They have expensive horses, the best trainers, and show opportunities they are very very lucky ladies and gentleman!

Riding with George Morris is very valuable to these young adults riding careers. They knew what they were getting into, I am pretty sure it was no surprise. I thought he seemed nice during the whole clinic. A bit grumpy sometimes, but it works for him. I’m a young adult adult and being called a dumbbell or whatnot would not offend me, it may even be true heheh ;)!!! I like that he says things like they are, sometimes tough love is the way to go. I really don’t think he is a mean person, and I think he wants to see his students succeed which is the real reason he is so tough on them sometimes.

I learned so much by just watching the clinic! I am really thankful that it was available to the public! Big thank you to whoever made that possible

[MHM]

Lucassb, excellent post. Especially the analogy about use of the stick.

[Phyxius]

As someone who is actually at this clinic and seeing all of the rides and riders and the whole situation I have to say that George has been very gentle with that particular rider. I’ve seen him give clinics before and saw the abruptness that people complain about but, in this instance I think dumbbell is the nicer option…

While I’m certainly not at the level of these riders I would never go into a lesson or clinic with the “I-know-everything-and-don’t-need-to-listen-to-you” attitude.

If you watched today’s session you’ll see that she does get “yelled” at again today. I do not think she’ll take his “dumbell” comment to heart. In addition to that comment he has also had positive comments for her as with every rider at this clinic. During the photo critique he was harshest with his own position and there has been a lot of laughter through out the week.

[justathought]

[QUOTE=BLBGP;5338928]
Where does it say he was yelling?

Although in your situation of the cop yelling at the lady with the umbrella in front of her face, perhaps that did save her life if she was about to walk into traffic.

Apparently it made this rider snap back into action and do the exercise correctly. And he said dumbbell, not stupid. And they ate together and laughed afterwards.[/QUOTE]

So… the ends justify the means… And IME there is no difference between being called a dumbbell or stupid.

As I said earlier, no one will know if she suceeded because or in spite of the comment. It may just have taken that long to click… maybe maybe not.

Finally, just because they ate and laughed together later does not mean the comment was OK or that the rider was not negatively affected by it.

BTW I think GM is a brillant horseman and has much to teach - I respect his knowledge and experience. I also believe that if you sign up for his clinic his reputation precedes him and you should expect the kind of comments discussed here. That just doesn’t mean that it is either the best approach or an acceptable approach.

[findeight]

Since that dead horse is starting to stink and we are actually getting facts about the context of what was said now??

Perhaps this one is done?

All are free to express an opinion but…maybe hold off on pronouncing sweeping personal judgements of somebody?

[hntrjmprpro45]

Okay people lets gain a little perspective. GM does not teach short stirrup riders for a living (although he wrote a fabulous book on how to teach them), he trains top level athletes. I think the confusion lies in ones expectations from the different trainers at different levels.

At the highest level (and lets not forget that the sole purpose of this clinic is to identify and nurture our elite up and comers), coaches are in the business of PUSHING athletes to become better, not to have to teach them the basics. There is no coddling at the top and no room for failing to follow directions. I have been around A LOT of top coaches (especially when I was running track in college), and the biggest thing they have in common is the ability to push.

The top levels of sports is not for everyone. The mentality is simply different. Coaches will often resort to different tactics to push their athletes whether that means giving them the ominous angry stare (which meant they were so disappointed they couldn’t even come up with words to say) or yelling at them, etc. The truth is, at some point an athlete will have all the ability and knowledge but will need someone to PUSH them to the next level. Its mental toughness that will often make or break top athletes.

[Guin]

“Dumbbell”? Oh, the horror! The shame!

One of DD’s favorite trainers used to yell a lot worse at her students. They were a bunch of spoiled brats who NEVER paid attention. They’d start whining and, horrifyingly, CRYING, when they were being chastised for not following instructions. I couldn’t believe it when I picked up DD one day and she said, “Susie started crying and [trainer] told her to get off and go home.” I asked DD if SHE ever cried. Her response: Of course not! I just get mad for not doing it right, and try harder.

[Buglet]

If these riders sign up to lesson/clinic with GM, then Im sure they are fully aware of his teaching style. I would think that they knew going into it that they would not be pacified and were in for heavy criticism if they did not perform to his standards. He has always been this way, and if they were afraid to get their feelings hurt then they should have chosen to ride with a trainer who has a different demeanor.

[SillyHorse]

@findeight;5338734

So…being clearly and repeatedly told to spiral in several times (a common excercise at top levels) was too complicated?

Evidently it was, because she couldn’t do it. Was calling her a dumbell supposed to help?

[QHmom]

Buglet is right on…
GM has become who he is from the wonderful opportunities he has had from past top trainers.

[findeight]

@SillyHorse;5339085

Evidently it was, because she couldn’t do it. Was calling her a dumbell supposed to help?

Well apparently it did.

And, if she could not do that spiral excercise and ignored instructions?? Sorry, she had no business wasting his time, her fellow rider’s time and the time of those who bought plane tickets and paid to watch this Masters clinic with, supposedly, TOP Juniors and Young Rider candidate adults.

And it is with heavy heart I bid you all farewell, adieu, auf federstein(sp?) goodbye.

That dead horse is really stinking the place up here.

[danceronice]

Okay, I gave up trying to read every post.

1. Yes, it was inappropriate. It is appropriate to critique the athlete’s actions, not to go at them as a person.

2. GM is a very gifted trainer. He does sometimes cross the line from being blunt to bullying. He does not seem to know/care where the line is.

3. Skating used to have coaches like this. Maybe there are still some bottom-feeders who are. But after some very nasty exposes about the physical and mental state of the people who went through that sort of coaching, US Figure Skating and the PSA have in fact cracked down on it. (I don’t know if gymnastics actually changed or just went more underground, but they at least seem to have fewer visible anorexics.) A coach who called a student an idiot and berated them in front of everyone would not be accepted as ‘toughening.’ You get tough about the action, not the person.

4. Some of the people saying ‘they have to learn to take it’ seem to have confused abuse with being blunt. It is not a matter of calling someone an f—ing moron versus ‘everyone’s a winner’ and nothing in between. My old dance teacher was blunt, and in fact probably had kid gloves on with me if anything. He never called me names–he might have said a figure was really, really wrong, he might get frustrated that something’s not working, he might even laugh at something I did, but he did not make it about me the person. It’s “You did that wrong”, not “You’re stupid.” GM seems very fuzzy about this.

Be blunt. You don’t have to sugar-coat. Say “Get your g–d— heels DOWN!” if you must. (Uh…not that I have ever said that when watching my brother school. Really.) Not “Can’t you do anything right, you idiot?”

[justathought]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5339132]
Okay, I gave up trying to read every post.

1. Yes, it was inappropriate. It is appropriate to critique the athlete’s actions, not to go at them as a person.

2. GM is a very gifted trainer. He does sometimes cross the line from being blunt to bullying. He does not seem to know/care where the line is.

3. Skating used to have coaches like this. Maybe there are still some bottom-feeders who are. But after some very nasty exposes about the physical and mental state of the people who went through that sort of coaching, US Figure Skating and the PSA have in fact cracked down on it. (I don’t know if gymnastics actually changed or just went more underground, but they at least seem to have fewer visible anorexics.) A coach who called a student an idiot and berated them in front of everyone would not be accepted as ‘toughening.’ You get tough about the action, not the person.

4. Some of the people saying ‘they have to learn to take it’ seem to have confused abuse with being blunt. It is not a matter of calling someone an f—ing moron versus ‘everyone’s a winner’ and nothing in between. My old dance teacher was blunt, and in fact probably had kid gloves on with me if anything. He never called me names–he might have said a figure was really, really wrong, he might get frustrated that something’s not working, he might even laugh at something I did, but he did not make it about me the person. It’s “You did that wrong”, not “You’re stupid.” GM seems very fuzzy about this.

Be blunt. You don’t have to sugar-coat. Say “Get your g–d— heels DOWN!” if you must. (Uh…not that I have ever said that when watching my brother school. Really.) Not “Can’t you do anything right, you idiot?”[/QUOTE]

well said!

[SillyHorse]

@findeight;5339129

Well apparently it did.

And, if she could not do that spiral excercise and ignored instructions?? Sorry, she had no business wasting his time, her fellow rider’s time and the time of those who bought plane tickets and paid to watch this Masters clinic with, supposedly, TOP Juniors and Young Rider candidate adults.

And it is with heavy heart I bid you all farewell, adieu, auf federstein(sp?) goodbye.

That dead horse is really stinking the place up here.

Yes it is. Bye.

[Coreene]

This all reminds me of Douglas C. Neidermeyer

Neidermeyer: Redo those buttons! Dress that belt buckle! Straighten that cap! And goddamn it, tuck up those pajamas! Attention! Eyes front! What’s that on your chest, mister?

Flounder: It’s a pledge pin, sir.

Neidermeyer: A pledge pin! On your uniform?

Or, as he screamed in the Twisted Sister video, WHAT DO YOU WANNA DO WITH YOUR LIFE!!!

[M_O_Connor]

[QUOTE=findeight;5338347]
:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:ROFLMAO

At your expense but it IS hilarious if you have actually ever ridden with, met and spoken to in detail or watched him teach. I bet he secretly thought it was funny too…

Oh, that horse has been dead for years and is now stuffed and mounted, fully exposed to all.[/QUOTE]

Hey, if it took a little heat off the others (you know, the ones who would have been psychologically traumatized forEVER had his terrible wrath been turned on them?) it was ok by me. Didn’t affect my ability to redeem myself and earn the compliment of “exemplary” during our collected/lateral canter work a day or so later.

[Void]

He’s getting nicer as he gets older actually… lol

At one clinic he told my friend that she “sure was pretty but couldn’t ride for her life”

We still laugh about it to this day and that 1 comment didn’t discourage her from riding (and winning).

[equidae]

[QUOTE=Velvet;5338756]
Okay, would you accept this from a cop? I once saw a cop scream at a woman and call her stupid (and a few other choice names) because she did not see him raising a hand to stop pedestrian traffic near a parking ramp exit. (It was raining and it was very hard to see him.) He called her often and started calling her names and giving her a lecture. I saw the whole thing. She just had her umbrella tipped in front of her (for good reason) and honestly did not see him.

When I called to complain because this guy was treating someone so poorly and calling her names, I was told by the officer on the phone, “We’re trained tell the truth to people.” :eek:

Seriously? They hide behind that? Seriously, George can hide behind that just because it worked?

Like I said, I am NOT a PC person, but this just smacks of bullying an an inability on the screamer’s part to communicate. They need to go learn better communication skills.[/QUOTE]

What?? I don’t get what you’re saying… Huh?