[QUOTE=Doctracy;5338795]
20-30 years ago it was also ok to beat your wife and kids. I would hope we’ve made progress as a society![/QUOTE]
Really?? In 1991 it was OK to do that? What planet was that on?
Do a poll then.
Some people like him, some don’t -
If you do a poll, then you will know what the percentages on COTH that support him and the percentage of those who dont. You could then put it to rest that you are either in the majority or the minorty.
Here :
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peace [IMG]http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif)
No way…any info online? Did he neglect a horse? Why would he still be our Chef/Coach???
Found today on COTHBB:
Advanced Search POSTS: Morris Neglect
http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/sh…ct#post2872163
My case against George, Hunterdon and Chris has been cited on several threads over the years…some have been “retired”. I was under oath on the stand for almost 2 days in Federal Court. It lasted 2 1/2 week but felt like forever. The case was divided into two parts…One to establish Negelct leading to the death of Grande Saber and Second to establish the monetary award.
The first part was enough to kill me. The Jury returned a Unanimous Decision - GUILTY of Neglect. I couldn’t bear to go throught the second part of the trial and settled with the insurance company. I am not aware of George being out of pocket for anything during the trial. You would be amazed that I had more liability insurance than Hunterdon Inc, George and Kappler!
The USEF was notified of the case upon the verdict as Chris was nominated Horsemen of the Year 2003. The only news coverage came from the Trenton Star-Ledger although editors of equine journals were informed of the lawsuit which took several years to get to Court. This case created a tense undercurrent among trainers as there were more than a few prominent trainers holding their breaths as they followed the proceedings.
The 2 1/2 week Jury Trial was heard in Federal Court In Trenton,New Jersey presided by the most Senior Judge of the Court…the Honorable Anne E. Thompson presiding. : October 2003 Action Number 00-6258 (AET) :
The Unanimous jury verdict found George Morris, Hunterdon,Inc and Chris Kappler NEGLIGENT in the DEATH of Grande Saber.
As part of the verdict, the Judge directed Morris Hunterdon and Kappler to return Saber’s equipment including his halter…that never happened.
Kappler was the 2003 Horseman of the Year.
20-30 years ago it was also ok to beat your wife and kids. I would hope we’ve made progress as a society!
I really think that’s a bit of a stretch, and frankly, if that’s the level of logic we’re working with, it’s a bit concerning.
Every other post is “I’ve heard worse” or “He’s always been like that” He basically told a rider she was stupid and you can’t give me a resume that makes what he said sound any better.
You can justify someones rude behavior all day long and its still rude.
He doesnt need to pet her head, but he can treat her with enough respect to refrain from insulting her intelligence in a public setting, and on video no less.
I’ve trained with some pretty high end trainers and actual words like “dummy” or “idiot” would have stoppped me dead in my tracks and had me getting off my horse.
Thems fightin words round here…
I am sure that this has already been said, but since re-reading these threads gets a bit tiresome, I am skipping straight to my opinion 
My observations of GM is that he is polite and helpful, right up until you don’t listen or try. In the clinic I participated in, he never said one possibly rude or nasty thing to me. Trust me, it wasn’t because I was a fabulous rider. In fact, I was on a green horse and perhaps shouldn’t have been there. However, I followed instructions and even when I failed at the exercise, it was obvious that I had done everything in my power to make it happen (or not as the case may be).
The people he was hardest on were the ones who weren’t following directions. One exercise was to do a bending 6 in 7. I attempted the 7 and instead got a step or two of trot. I didn’t get yelled at or insulted. The person who got the 6? She got nailed to the wall. She hadn’t even attempted to get the 7. She didn’t take a bigger arc, she didn’t try and shorten her horse’s stride. She rode it just like she had ridden it when we were supposed to get the 6.
In summary, based on my experience, if you get yelled at by George Morris, you deserved it.
[QUOTE=findeight;5338491]
Because, with a group looking to level 8+ fences with International time allowed standards? Repeated mistakes will get you killed.[/QUOTE]
really puts the right perspective on it. 5’6"+ fences vs. a dumbbell. Which do you think is meaner?
Pardon me if this has been asked, RileyT, have you ever taught?
Teenagers?
Because sometimes, when you see nothing else is working, you have to snap their attention, lest you’re ready for that trip to hell in a hand basket.
I ain’t no GM, but a story I have about a kid that would not get off her horse’s face as we were warming up for the jumpers suits well. I should have gotten meaner sooner - the horse was eyeing me, waiting for me to fix the problem. When I didn’t get that point across, he did. Straight into the air on his hind legs and I could’t blame him a bit.
Somebody has to speak for the horses because very few of the horses of this caliber are tactful enough to just call you a dumbbell.
Ignoring instructions so your horse has to do 5 more trips than every other horse is being a dumbbell. More people should be called out on it.
[QUOTE=rwh;5338866]
I haven’t read this whole thread but I watched the clinic as it was streaming and chuckled at that comment. It wasn’t “barked” in a nasty tone. To me, he seemed aware of the humor of the comment. And, as another poster noted the girl in question had not been paying attention…[/QUOTE]
I agree, he wasn’t saying it as if she was the scum of the earth, let’s lighten up a little. Let the vendetta rest.
I personally agree that people know what they are getting into when they sign up for a George Morris clinic. It’s similar to “making it” on the Biggest Loser and expecting Jillian Michaels to go easy on you. These girls, just like the people on BL have BIG goals and soft peddling around egregious errors or lack of effort is not going to accomplish them.
At least GM doesn’t lock his riders in his closet to think about their mistakes like Admiral Rickover who headed the nuclear submarine program. When candidates for the program gave bad answers to his questions, he would lock them in his closet for an hour. I believe Diane Sawyer asked him why and abruptly said " they gave me stupid answers to my questions and I wanted them to think about it"
So succinct, and exactly what I wanted to say, so I’m just gonna be lazy and quote.
What is the PC synonym for stupid anyway? I woulda thought dumbbell woulda been right up there. It’s kinda nice, rolls off the tongue, and carries an air of light humor on it’s own…
How fast was this train going when the wreck started? Man, warp speed here, you guys.
I do teach for a living (sorry, university level, not many teens).
All I can say is that GM’s pedegogy sux rox in this case. If you-- the person who walked in knowing a hell of a lot more than your student-- can’t think of anything other than calling her stupid in order to produce some change you’d like, then someone is in deep trouble.
I’ll give you sec to figure out just which one of these people was the cause of the problem and the one we can require to change.
I can’t understand why you guys are bending over backward to defend GM’s mistake here.
I’d be interested to know if his attitude
came at the same time as his fame and popularity, or if he’s always been the way he is.
And at the risk of repeating myself, and others, you can be, very verbally effective without actually insulting people. You can either enhance the reputation of the organization you work for, or you can damage it by your actions. Apparently, Mr. Morris breathes such rarified air and has such a huge cult following that he is above many of the courtesies we mere mortals must practice in order to be accepted in polite society, let alone revered.
Are his acheivements, or at least those of his riders legendary, hell yes.
Is alot of his rudeness just that because he doesn’t care who he offends, there are people lining up to pay for that?
Yep.
Are his acheivements, or at least those of his riders legendary, hell yes.
Is alot of his rudeness just that because he doesn’t care who he offends, there are people lining up to pay for that?
Yep.
Obviously his teaching style works.
Pretty much better than anyone else’s judging by the results. :winkgrin:
Goes to show that top athletes aren’t hyper-sensitive or they’d not have gotten where they are.
And that calling stupid is as stupid does…works.
We’ve all done stupid things. If we’re told it was stpid immediately from someone who knows a lot more than we do, we learn from it and don’t repat that particular brand of stupidity.
For those so offended…have you or will you be riding for him?
If not…why the angst? Those who do ride with him don’t seem to have issues with him.
And those who ride with him for a long time…usually end up with medals.
Can’t argue the results IMO.
[QUOTE=2ndyrgal;5339427]
came at the same time as his fame and popularity, or if he’s always been the way he is.
And at the risk of repeating myself, and others, you can be, very verbally effective without actually insulting people. You can either enhance the reputation of the organization you work for, or you can damage it by your actions. Apparently, Mr. Morris breathes such rarified air and has such a huge cult following that he is above many of the courtesies we mere mortals must practice in order to be accepted in polite society, let alone revered.
Are his acheivements, or at least those of his riders legendary, hell yes.
Is alot of his rudeness just that because he doesn’t care who he offends, there are people lining up to pay for that?
Yep.[/QUOTE]
Yes, of course a person can be verbally effective and nice at the same time. We all know there are people out there who can do that. But are they as effective at what they are trying to convey as GM has been in his career? Everyone on the planet is good at some things and not so good at others. All human beings have strengths AND weaknesses. What those strengths and weaknesses are define us as individuals. GM obviously possesses talent in areas relating to horses that surpasses the talent of most others in the horse business to the point where his strengths in that area far outweigh his weakness in communication (as defined by some on this thread - I’m not bothered by his comments int he least). Were he the second coming of Mother Theresa without a lick of talent when it comes to horses, none of us would know who he is and this topic wouldn’t exist. I don’t understand the problem here. He clearly has a sense of humor and has shown self-deprecating qualities - he clearly knows he is not perfect. No one is.
It’s not like he called any of them fat. Yet.
[QUOTE=mvp;5339425]
I can’t understand why you guys are bending over backward to defend GM’s mistake here.[/QUOTE]
Did you watch the ride? Went something like this…
GM: Circle smaller! Do not over-bend! Keep that neck strait!
Rider: [Makes circle bigger] [Overbends the neck]
Rinse, repeat, repeat again…add in some over-bending comments…big circle…
GM: …Dumbell!
It was frustrating as a viewer. Dumbell was relatively kind, in the scheme of things. He is quick to praise - “There you gooo” - particular for a good rider effort.
I am SO sick if people “stroking” these kids. It is NOT helping any of them become problem solvers in or out of the ring!!!
Thank you!!!
[QUOTE=danceronice;5339132]
Okay, I gave up trying to read every post.
-
Yes, it was inappropriate. It is appropriate to critique the athlete’s actions, not to go at them as a person.
-
GM is a very gifted trainer. He does sometimes cross the line from being blunt to bullying. He does not seem to know/care where the line is.
-
Skating used to have coaches like this. Maybe there are still some bottom-feeders who are. But after some very nasty exposes about the physical and mental state of the people who went through that sort of coaching, US Figure Skating and the PSA have in fact cracked down on it. (I don’t know if gymnastics actually changed or just went more underground, but they at least seem to have fewer visible anorexics.) A coach who called a student an idiot and berated them in front of everyone would not be accepted as ‘toughening.’ You get tough about the action, not the person.
-
Some of the people saying ‘they have to learn to take it’ seem to have confused abuse with being blunt. It is not a matter of calling someone an f—ing moron versus ‘everyone’s a winner’ and nothing in between. My old dance teacher was blunt, and in fact probably had kid gloves on with me if anything. He never called me names–he might have said a figure was really, really wrong, he might get frustrated that something’s not working, he might even laugh at something I did, but he did not make it about me the person. It’s “You did that wrong”, not “You’re stupid.” GM seems very fuzzy about this.
Be blunt. You don’t have to sugar-coat. Say “Get your g–d— heels DOWN!” if you must. (Uh…not that I have ever said that when watching my brother school. Really.) Not “Can’t you do anything right, you idiot?”[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MHM;5338505]
I think the 73 year old’s shorthand version of that is: Don’t be a dumbbell.[/QUOTE]
So true!!! :winkgrin:
[QUOTE=goodmorning;5339479]
Did you watch the ride? Went something like this…
GM: Circle smaller! Do not over-bend! Keep that neck strait!
Rider: [Makes circle bigger] [Overbends the neck]
Rinse, repeat, repeat again…add in some over-bending comments…big circle…
GM: …Dumbell!
It was frustrating as a viewer. Dumbell was relatively kind, in the scheme of things. He is quick to praise - “There you gooo” - particular for a good rider effort.[/QUOTE]
No, I didn’t see the ride. I’ll trust your summary of the exchange.
There are multiple reasons that the rider didn’t do what he asked. Her being stupid is just one of the many possibilities. And if her stupidity is, in fact, the main cause of the problem, then announcing that does no good. It tells her nothing about how to change things up.
Should she have known how to produce in her horse what it sounds like he wanted? Given the venue, I’ll assume so. But whether or not she could execute that is a separate question.
FWIW, I also believe your remarks about GM being quick with the praise and others’ reports about him rewarding the person who tries and misses.
But the whole thing about “frustration” and “being kind” really shouldn’t enter into it. How the teacher feels is immaterial. And dollars-to-donuts, GM knows this and would agree.
Again, I can’t see why you guys defend this in any form. If the student here were a horse and not a person, and GM stepped that far beyond the limits of “normal horse training pedagogy” to do what most of us consider damaging or below the belt unfair, I’d like to think you’d feel differently.
[QUOTE=Mayaty02;5338016]
I am of the camp that you knew what you were signing up for when you went to the clinic. Would I personally clinic with him, nope, but they are among the best young riders in the country so I’d expect they’d do a whole heck of alot better than me. Now if that was my daughter, would I be happy? No, but if he complimented her on something else she did, I would take the bad with the good.
If he was negative towards her for the whole clinic, I would have a bigger problem, but it’s my understanding that he also complimented her.
My favorite trainer from my teenage years was my toughest, she would just tell you to leave the ring and put the horse away if you weren’t trying hard enough or if you hadn’t polished your paddock boots or had dirty tack. What I loved about her though is when she complimented you, it meant THAT much more. And to this day, some 20+ yrs later, I can still hear her in my minds eye every time I get on a horse.[/QUOTE]
And those trainers are the ones I simply adore! Ya never forget them. The compliments may have been few, but when you heard them, ya know ya done good!
