GM is nothing but a bully.

[dags]

[QUOTE=Velvet;5339972]
This is quite a stretch when all Americans know that the derogatory use of the word means you are calling the person a moron, idiot, etc. We are not talking about the actual object, but what the slang word means.[/QUOTE]

I ask again, what is the PC term for stupid? Idiot? Moron? Numbskull? Dumb? Assinine? Obtuse? Dense?

Really? Dumbbell? That is name calling? What if he called her as cute as a cupcake? That’s okay because, why? Everyone secretly wants to be a cupcake but not a dumbbell?

When someone is being stupid how do you go about telling them that?

How many ways can you say “you’re not using your head” and get ignored before you change tactics?

Words only have power when you give them power. This is so far from real psychological abuse that it’s insulting to anyone who has actually suffered real trauma or real intent to harm.

[mortebella]

My 2 cents: coming up in the day around someone who was even older than George, I think harsh was just how it was done back then. There was no PC notion abroad in the land about kids’ self esteem and you would’ve been laughed at if you brought it up (and this was true of educational theory generally; these were the times when the word “mongolism” was still the standard designation for Down syndrome.) You could expect to get chewed out, regularly, but I think there were 2 or 3 rationales behind it: 1. It got rid of those who didn’t really, really want to ride. 2. It made those who did really, really work hard at it. And 3. when you finally got praise, it meant the earth to you. One kind word could keep you going for 6 months.

As for getting George to change: It’s people who’ve tolerated his mouth for decades to ride with him and built his reputation that have allowed it to continue. Simply put, he’s far too successful for anyone to tell him he has to do anything. If he had lost clientele years ago due to his abrasiveness, then as a matter of survival he might have learned to govern his tongue. But, again, in those days people’s expectations were not the same. Parents didn’t run around thinking their kids were going to be damaged for life if a trainer called them an idiot or said they needed to drop a few pounds if they wanted to succeed at the sport. (I’m NOT saying I disagree that George’s use of the word “dumbbell” is unprofessional and reflects poorly on US equestrian sport at this level. I’m just saying I think we’re stuck with it.) As to whether his style stems from genius, I couldn’t say. But I do think it’s totally entrenched and there could be no possible motivation for him to change. I think USET probably is well aware of all this, and makes a judgment call: do we hire the old curmudgeon who can get the best results, even though he’s a bit of a PR problem sometimes, or do we trade off for somebody who presents better but maybe isn’t as great a trainer and doesn’t have that direct link to masters of the past? (How many such persons are left, anyway?) At least, I hope that’s what they were thinking.

[STA]

Perhaps the television show, “What Would You Do?”, should come to a GM clinic?

[SaturdayNightLive]

I think this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion. You realize this is an 18 page thread debating about the word “dumbbell” right? Do you feel stupid yet? Because you should.

Here’s my take on it: Micheal Vick can commit felonies and brutally kill living things, but nobody cares (including some people on this thread, and not the ones defending George) because he is a very talented quarterback.

Therefore, GM, who is wildly more successful in his sport than MV will ever be in his, has earned the right to use the word “dumbbell”.

When you become the Olympic coach, you can teach with love and hugs and sunshine. Until then, go take a riding lesson or something.

*Disclaimer: I think MV should be shot. However, I also think the girl in the lesson was being a dumbbell. I’m a puzzle.

[hntrjmprpro45]

[QUOTE=justathought;5340142]
Good post… raises an issue that was implicit in my post … why is it ever ok to be yelling personal insults … in any sport …[/QUOTE]

Here’s why… At least IMO… After having spent years training with top athletes and coaches in college (I ran division I cross country and track) I noticed a few things. In general, as you get higher up in sports (like national and international competition), athletes only improve when THEY push themselves. Generally most top athletes are critical of themselves but there often comes a point when they aren’t trying hard enough. This is when the coach must push them to the next level. Here in the US coaches use the insult/ praise method (they get quite animated and will yell a lot). I have noticed coaches from other areas of the world are quite different- I have dealt with some eastern European coaches that simply use intimidation tactics (very critical/stern all the time with little praise if any). I personally prefer the insult/praise method.

So basically they use these tactics because they work. When you need to challenge someone to do better you’ve got to make them believe it. Yelling is much more effective at getting a rise out of someone than calmly talking to them.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Summit Springs Farm;5340054]
don’t ya just love that Chase Boggio??? I am privileged to say I know him personally and he rode one of my nicest horses (we switched horses and I rode his) at a clinic with Christina, what fun!! I love the way he rides, he is so soft, truly gifted IMHO. also polite, doubt Lauriep woud ever have words with him. Speaking of Lauriep, just wondering if she would ever take GM’s behavior from just anyone? just sayin…[/QUOTE]

If I was indeed being ridiculously dense, it worse, unsafe, AND I had come to this person for an opinion or lesson, then no problem. If that person was in error, then I would retort. I am NOT a Parr of thus new “feel good” generation and calling a person out, even with a name, doesn’t bother me. Answer your question, Liz?

[Diva98]

Just when I thought COTH couldn’t get more out of control, we have this thread. Are we really comparing the use of the word “dumbbell” to domestic abuse, post traumatic stress disorder, physical bullying, etc? Really?!?!? Especially since we have now heard from people who are actually watching the clinic who pointed out the following:

1)It was said with good humor and the rider was complimented when she corrected her mistake.

2)The rider was seen later laughing and conversing with GM. She clearly got over it, why can’t everyone else?

And to the person who asked if a teacher used this language, would it be okay? The most popular teacher at my high school was the junior/senior math instructor who did, on occasion, tease the students and call them names. We loved him. He made math fun. We were all 16/17/18 (the same age as most of these riders) and we had SENSES OF HUMOR. We knew he was using these insults to get his point across. And he had the good timing to know when and where to use them … much like I am sure GM did.

C’mon … isn’t there something better to debate? Surely someone somewhere is about to enter their 4 year old baby green horse in 12 classes at a local schooling show, using draw reins and a crest release???

[DLee]

He called someone a Dumb Brunette this morning. I’m sure she is headed to therapy as we speak.

[canterhavenfarm]

[QUOTE=DLee;5340292]
He called someone a Dumb Brunette this morning. I’m sure she is headed to therapy as we speak.[/QUOTE]

I was finally able to watch this live this am. I heard that too. He started out with dumb blonde then said something like in this case a dumb brunette. When he said it, it did not take me back too much in that, the riders were doing the exercise and, as I understood it, did the jump on each lead in each direction to warm up before doing the course. The rider kept going in the same direction.

[DLee]

[QUOTE=canterhavenfarm;5340327]
I was finally able to watch this live this am. I heard that too. He started out with dumb blonde then said something like in this case a dumb brunette. When he said it, it did not take me back too much in that, the riders were doing the exercise and, as I understood it, did the jump on each lead in each direction to warm up before doing the course. The rider kept going in the same direction.[/QUOTE]

Yes, and it was the same warmup they all had been doing, so basically someone wasn’t paying attention. It was a great morning watching this! Especially with MORE snow outside.

[bigeqxo]

[QUOTE=justathought;5340122]
So… I guess as an adult I have to ask what does it mean to you to be treated like an “EQUESTRIAN”. NOT A SINGLE PERSON here has suggested that this rider or any rider be allowed to make the same mistake over and ocer again. You are right - if you are serious about your riding you want the input necessary to improve. The choice is NOT no correction or name calling - it is HOW the correction should be delivered.

So if being an EQUESTRIAN means being abused/insulted/belittled count me out… if it means striving constantly to be the best/ to learn the most/ to expand my knowledge base and to respectfully pass that along… yep I am REAL interested in that![/QUOTE]

Maybe I should’ve worded that part differently. What I meant was, if I was at a clinic with George Morris, I’d want him to treat me like an athlete who’s there because she wants to improve her riding, and wants all the insight he can give her.
George has a BIG name. If he truly wanted to, he could take the money, let everyone ride around him for an hour, and every so often say “Good job,” or “Wonderful,” and get away with it. At least he takes the time to grab her attention and tell her that she’s not doing it right.

And honestly, is being called a dumbbell really THAT bad? Like the actual definition I quoted earlier, he called her exactly what she was… an inanimate object that could be actually useful. And then there’s the fact that even if we still want to call that name calling, there are things far worse that George could have said. In my opinion, “Dumbbell” is far from being abused/insulted/belittled.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=bigeqxo;5340091]

As a junior rider, if I were to clinic with George Morris, I’d want to be treated like an EQUESTRIAN. I wouldn’t waste money for someone to yell out, “Fix your circle,” over, and over, and over, and over again. I can respect the fact that some people have enough backbone to tell it how it is, and not sugar coat it in the least. The rider wasn’t doing what he asked, and he needed to get her attention. If it was me he’d said that to, I’d think “At least the man has enough respect for riding as a sport not to let someone sloppily sit on their horse without performing the task correctly,” and be EVEN MORE thrilled when he told me that I did an exercise beautifully later on in the clinic.

I’m serious enough about my riding to know that a stroked ego is far less important than riding itself. If these riders expect to be the best and achieve the most in the future, they need to realize that, too. This isn’t badminton we’re playing here… toughen up, or choose another sport.[/QUOTE]

Wouldn’t “YOU’RE NOT DOING WHAT I ASKED!!! Go back to the line and watch someone else do it” be essentially as powerful (if not more powerful) than name calling? I know I’d sure as hell be way more embarrassed and more likely to try to figure it out.

And just because we’ve always done the insult/praise method, doesn’t mean it’s right and doesn’t mean it’s the most effective. It just means that that is what we are used to seeing so we’ve accomodated accordingly. We’ve modified how we train horses (for the better) over the years, why not how we train students? How many riders with a great feel for the horse and a compassion to go with it have we lost to these tactics? We will never know…

[bigeqxo]

[QUOTE=sptraining;5340362]
Wouldn’t “YOU’RE NOT DOING WHAT I ASKED!!! Go back to the line and watch someone else do it” be essentially as powerful (if not more powerful) than name calling? I know I’d sure as hell be way more embarrassed and more likely to try to figure it out.

And just because we’ve always done the insult/praise method, doesn’t mean it’s right and doesn’t mean it’s the most effective. It just means that that is what we are used to seeing so we’ve accomodated accordingly. How many riders with a great feel for the horse and a compassion to go with it have we lost to these tactics? We will never know…[/QUOTE]

For me, no, it wouldn’t have. As people above who watched the clinic had said, he tried telling her she wasn’t doing it right. Her circles were far from what he wanted. And at the level that rider was at, I think she deserves to be called a dumbbell for expecting her horse to understand George wanted a tighter circle, while she sat there and did nothing.

[TheOneandOnly]

Honestly, I would be honored to be yelled at by George. I didn’t get fussed at ENOUGH as a young rider and after experiencing college riding with a strong coach it almost makes me giddy when I get yelled at:lol: I like to know that I’m getting my money and times worth and that somebody gives a crap about my riding. JMO, if you cant take the heat don’t even step foot in the kitchen!

[canterhavenfarm]

Another thing I noticed, as I only was able to watch today’s session, was after he made the dumb brunette comment, he then said this ‘we are not rocket scientists’. ‘This is not rocket science’ then he said something like we just need to be thinking.

I have to agree with this. He wants thinking riders. Not just a rider who goes through the motion. We need to be thinking at all times and thinking is not rocket science. All riders need to be thinking riders, not lumps on the back of their horse.

He is seems to be a passionate man and passionate about riders being correct and thinking thus why is probably so expressive!

[justathought]

[QUOTE=sptraining;5340362]
Wouldn’t “YOU’RE NOT DOING WHAT I ASKED!!! Go back to the line and watch someone else do it” be essentially as powerful (if not more powerful) than name calling? I know I’d sure as hell be way more embarrassed and more likely to try to figure it out.

And just because we’ve always done the insult/praise method, doesn’t mean it’s right and doesn’t mean it’s the most effective. It just means that that is what we are used to seeing so we’ve accomodated accordingly. We’ve modified how we train horses (for the better) over the years, why not how we train students? How many riders with a great feel for the horse and a compassion to go with it have we lost to these tactics? We will never know…[/QUOTE]

Well said!

[justathought]

[QUOTE=bigeqxo;5340378]
For me, no, it wouldn’t have. As people above who watched the clinic had said, he tried telling her she wasn’t doing it right. Her circles were far from what he wanted. And at the level that rider was at, I think she deserves to be called a dumbbell for expecting her horse to understand George wanted a tighter circle, while she sat there and did nothing.[/QUOTE]

Do not mean this as a personal affront… However, it is really disappointing that young athletes or any serious athlete for that matter doesn’t find a stern correction like you are NOT doing what I asked sufficient motivation.

As a former elite athlete - my experience is that the athletes who made it to the very top were the ones who did NOT need to be yelled at, told to get to work, or insulted. Their desire, their work ethic and their self-displine were sufficient when properly instructed.

My experience unlike that of hntrjmprpro45 is that the ones that needed to be yelled at or pushed by the use of personal insults eventually fell by the wayside - whether American or not. Willing to agree that our observations, both at the elite levels, could be both accurate and different.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=TheOneandOnly;5340391]
Honestly, I would be honored to be yelled at by George. I didn’t get fussed at ENOUGH as a young rider and after experiencing college riding with a strong coach it almost makes me giddy when I get yelled at:lol: I like to know that I’m getting my money and times worth and that somebody gives a crap about my riding. JMO, if you cant take the heat don’t even step foot in the kitchen![/QUOTE]

Giving a crap and name calling/belittling are two completely different things. Completely different.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=justathought;5340417]
Do not mean this as a personal affront… However, it is really disappointing that young athletes or any serious athlete for that matter doesn’t find a stern correction like you are NOT doing what I asked sufficient motivation.

As a former elite athlete - my experience is that the athletes who made it to the very top were the ones who did NOT need to be yelled at, told to get to work, or insulted. Their desire, their work ethic and their self-displine were sufficient when properly instructed.

My experience unlike that of hntrjmprpro45 is that the ones that needed to be yelled at or pushed by the use of personal insults eventually fell by the wayside - whether American or not. Willing to agree that our observations, both at the elite levels, could be both accurate and different.[/QUOTE]

I think you’re on to something…

[blazn]

Light bulb moment for me

For years I have wondered why BNTs don’t teach riders the way they teach horses - kindly and firmly. As a result of this thread (thank you!) I now see that the good ones do.

He corrected the rider several times, right? First (relatively) kindly, with instruction; then, a little less kindly. Finally, a sharp correction. Not nag, nag, nag.

He didn’t get angry, he didn’t hold a grudge. Later, when she performed well, he gave her a big compliment.

It seems to me that GM, at least, is teaching riders the same way he would teach horses. I’m OK with that.