GM is nothing but a bully.

[Ponyclubrocks]

I don’t know, while GM’s comments sometimes make me cringe, they usually come after someone has repeated failed to pay attention and at least attempt to do an exercise correctly. In my experience, if someone pays close attention and really tries hard, he is not going to come down on them very hard. Riding can be a dangerous sport. I think he is just trying to penetrate some rather thick skulls and get them paying attention.

It seems like in the last 20 years we have raised some generations of real hot house flowers (narcissists) who think everyone deserves a trophy for “participating” and that their self esteem is the most important thing on the planet. I can’t imagine how they are going to survive in the real world.

[doublesstable]

I am laughing because “some” of the people here that feel using the word dumbbell is being a bully and wrong; freely use other words like “giving a crap”.

Get off your high horses… GM uses the word “dumb”!! It is his “go to” word when someone is not doing something right. You all have “go to” words. It doesn’t make you a bully does it?

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=blazn;5340463]
For years I have wondered why BNTs don’t teach riders the way they teach horses - kindly and firmly. As a result of this thread (thank you!) I now see that the good ones do.

He corrected the rider several times, right? First (relatively) kindly, with instruction; then, a little less kindly. Finally, a sharp correction. Not nag, nag, nag.

He didn’t get angry, he didn’t hold a grudge. Later, when she performed well, he gave her a big compliment.

It seems to me that GM, at least, is teaching riders the same way he would teach horses. I’m OK with that.[/QUOTE]

Good post! This is what I use - ie: if you want your horse to move forward -

ASK = squeeze legs (no response)
TELL = kick legs (no response)
DEMAND = Crop or spur…

I actually do this with my kids :lol: I don’t spur them or use a crop however! And with five kids (so far) all are really good boys!

Be consistent and people know what to expect of you.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=doublesstable;5340512]
I am laughing because “some” of the people here that feel using the word dumbbell is being a bully and wrong; freely use other words like “giving a crap”.

Get off your high horses… GM uses the word “dumb”!! It is his “go to” word when someone is not doing something right. You all have “go to” words. It doesn’t make you a bully does it?[/QUOTE]

I think we’ve passed the actual definition of dumb and have moved more onto the theme of “is it right or effective to use insults as a method of motivation?”

[pony_grandma]

I have this mental note in my brain back from the Bruce Davidson eventing clinics in the 70’s (the age in my posting name!) – if someone did not listen or try when he was teaching he quietly quit teaching them and stayed focused on the rest of the group. He’d send them thru the same exercises but he would quit giving them comments. No name calling, no castigations; they got what they deserved - nothing - for the money and time invested.

I also saw Anne Kursinski get really mad at some riders because they really were not doing, even trying to do, what she had asked of them - to call out their striding , at say 5 strides, and count it downwards out loud before a fence to help develop an eye. My thought at the time was how horrified I was that these teenagers (they were) were wasting their parents money spent on this clinic, stabling, motel and travel expenses. I couldn’t believe their entitlement attitudes and my own daughters were so jealous b/c we could only afford the audit and they were sitting in the stands, seeing the 5 stride out and started counting the striding for the riders as they sat and only got to watch. Obviously they took more home with them than those kids! Anne didn’t resort to name calling but her voice went waaay up!

I’m just impressed with how difficult it is to go out and repeatedly teach these clinics and have to deal with the public. I am not in favor of the name calling, I can see some special exceptions, I don’t like yelling or belittling either. But an instructor must be prepared for this and decide how they will deal with it. And every rider should know what scenario they are riding into. Always audit first, learn the jargon, the exercises and expectations before you spend that big wad of cash. You will get a lot more out of your effort if you are prepared and want to learn.

[TheBarnRules]

[QUOTE=Linny;5338333]

If I were ever brave (or foolish) enough to ride before GM and the worst I was called was a dumbbell, I would be the happiest middle aged chunky woman on the face of the earth![/QUOTE]

LOL! Me too.

@Linny;5338333

There is a difference between telling someone that they are riding badly and telling them that they are a bad rider.

Exactly.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=pony grandma;5340535]
I have this mental note in my brain back from the Bruce Davidson eventing clinics in the 70’s (the age in my posting name!) – if someone did not listen or try when he was teaching he quietly quit teaching them and stayed focused on the rest of the group. He’d send them thru the same exercises but he would quit giving them comments. No name calling, no castigations; they got what they deserved - nothing - for the money and time invested.

I also saw Anne Kursinski get really mad at some riders because they really were not doing, even trying to do, what she had asked of them - to call out their striding , at say 5 strides, and count it downwards out loud before a fence to help develop an eye. My thought at the time was how horrified I was that these teenagers (they were) were wasting their parents money spent on this clinic, stabling, motel and travel expenses. I couldn’t believe their entitlement attitudes and my own daughters were so jealous b/c we could only afford the audit and they were sitting in the stands, seeing the 5 stride out and start counting the striding for the riders as they sat and only got to watch. Obviously they took more home with them than those kids! Anne didn’t resort to name calling but her voice went waaay up!

I’m just impressed with how difficult it is to go out and repeatedly teach these clinics and have to deal with the public. I am not in favor of the name calling, I can see some special exceptions, I don’t like yelling or belittling either. But an instructor must be prepared for this and decide how they will deal with it. And every rider should know what scenario they are riding into. Always audit first, learn the jargon, the exercises and expectations before you spend that big wad of cash. You will get a lot more out of your effort if you are prepared and want to learn.[/QUOTE]

Agree.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=sptraining;5340532]
I think we’ve passed the actual definition of dumb and have moved more onto the theme of “is it right or effective to use insults as a method of motivation?”[/QUOTE]

Oh - I know I have been missin out - riding my horses :lol:

Question:
Is it right or effective to use insults as a method of motivation?

Answer:
No right answer - each person and teacher is different.

But for me as a rider I like a trainer like GM - Extremely educated, praises when correct, corrects when wrong. Doesn’t “yell” like accused on this thread… use of words are very old school and you work “hard” so you don’t hear those words.

I cannot stand to ride with a “milk toast” trainer.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=doublesstable;5340560]

I cannot stand to ride with a “milk toast” trainer.[/QUOTE]

I can’t stand riding with sugary trainers either (I can’t stand people who are sugary for that matter!). But I believe you can be as effective, if not more effective, if you refrain from elementary school language.

I forget the exact number but it takes something like ten praises to overcome one insult.

[TheBarnRules]

[QUOTE=JenEM;5339751]
Well, presuming that by “action number” they meant docket, the only thing by that number in any jurisdiction that’s coming up on FindLaw is a banking case from 2001. Additionally, nothing is coming up at all searching Hunterdon, Kappler, or George Morris as parties, so I’m not sure how much weight I’d put on that.[/QUOTE]

I’ve also done a search on Lexis and found nothing about this case. If it was in federal court, it would be on the internet somewhere.

[ynl063w]

I watched the second group this morning, and I was shocked at the fact that many of those kids didn’t understand some very simple instructions. It was especially disappointing when the mistakes were made by kids who had had the opportunity to watch it being done correctly by those who had gone first. It was clear they were not paying attention, and they were called out for that. He called one girl a dumb blond, then realized she didn’t have blond hair, so he changed his mind and called her a dumb brunette. He really didn’t say it in a mean way; I actually chuckled when he said it. When I was a kid, my trainer used to call me a dumb blond (though my hair is dark brown) sometimes when I’d do something stupid. For me, being able to chuckle at that helped to break the frustration and allowed me to move on with the lesson.

I’m not the least bit offended by his style; in fact, I think he’s got a great sense of humor. I don’t get what the uproar is about.

[SueL]

Honestly, if you watch the video the “dumbell” comment was jocular. He wasn’t putting her down; he did want to get her attention. It worked and yes, she was able to do the exercise beautifully.

He is Old School. The American riding style and seat came from the military. Go figure that he doesn’t mince words.

He’s really not an ogre. I will grant him curmudgeon status (but I like curmudgeons <smile>) Years ago I audited a clinic with him. I studied the book and knew a good horseperson was always prepared. He wanted to get on a horse and was flummoxed to notice that he did not have his spurs. I was a very shy 19-year-old but darnit, I had my spurs in my right pocket. I squeaked “Mr. Morris, I have spurs. Do you want them?” He did wear them (and bent them too, they were “lady” spurs) and was so nice. He called me a thinking horseman.

Second Best Compliment Ever. (The best one was from Dan White who rides our Touch Cruise horse. He said “You guys stood behind this horse. You believed in him. And gave him the chance to succeed. Kudos to you both.”)

It’s about the horse and that’s it.

Sue

[Pirateer]

@SaturdayNightLive;5340180

I think this has gotten blown WAY out of proportion. You realize this is an 18 page thread debating about the word “dumbbell” right? Do you feel stupid yet? Because you should.

Here’s my take on it: Micheal Vick can commit felonies and brutally kill living things, but nobody cares (including some people on this thread, and not the ones defending George) because he is a very talented quarterback.

Therefore, GM, who is wildly more successful in his sport than MV will ever be in his, has earned the right to use the word “dumbbell”.

When you become the Olympic coach, you can teach with love and hugs and sunshine. Until then, go take a riding lesson or something.

*Disclaimer: I think MV should be shot. However, I also think the girl in the lesson was being a dumbbell. I’m a puzzle.

BFF!

[ktm2007]

[QUOTE=Midge;5340148]
Silly you! It’s okay to assault someone AND rip them apart IF they call you a dumbell first. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, seriously! I can not even believe that the person who posted about that incident feels that the trainer “Got what he deserved”. The client had HIRED this person for Pete’s Sake. If she didn’t like how he spoke to her, it would have been much more admirable to walk away and take her business with her. To kick him in the mouth? Yikes…

[ktm2007]

@dags;5340152

What if he called her as cute as a cupcake? That’s okay because, why? Everyone secretly wants to be a cupcake but not a dumbbell?

Well, then someone would come on here and call him a pervert :winkgrin:

[TheOneandOnly]

[QUOTE=sptraining;5340425]
Giving a crap and name calling/belittling are two completely different things. Completely different.[/QUOTE]

“dumbbell” really? Im sure that riders at this level can handle the second grade name calling. Seriously, its not like hes using common four letter words or just talking shit to people for the hell of it. My guess is that these girls know what they are walking into and probably aren’t crying about it when they leave. At their level, nobody gets anywhere by being babied…

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=sptraining;5340581]
I can’t stand riding with sugary trainers either (I can’t stand people who are sugary for that matter!). But I believe you can be as effective, if not more effective, if you refrain from elementary school language.

I forget the exact number but it takes something like ten praises to overcome one insult.[/QUOTE]

It is the other way around with George. One praise can overcome 10 insults, it is THAT highly sought after.

[MistyBlue]

Silly you! It’s okay to assault someone AND rip them apart IF they call you a dumbell first.

And this is how riders get the reputation of being overly emotional entitled divas. :eek:

[Equilibrium]

You know what this thread and another thread got me thinking. I really am sick to death of studies show this and that. Praise is always better than slagging and you need 10 praises to make up for the one slag. Who gives a crap? If you want to live your life by always being told you are good and do nothing wrong fine fair enough. Go live in your protected bubble world. These riders, as has been mentioned, are top notch riders and one wasn’t paying attention. And as has been mentioned she was praised for getting it right in the end. I chose never to have children mostly because I would be a rubbish mother. Honestly that is the truth. I don’t get how things are done today whereby as a failure you are still praised as not to harm your self esteem. We all fail, it’s how we learn. We learn nothing by being told how good we are at all times. 20 pages of this and I really don’t get the outrage here.

Terri

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=justathought;5340142]
Good post… raises an issue that was implicit in my post … why is it ever ok to be yelling personal insults … in any sport …[/QUOTE]

People don’t take it seriously as a sport because people think it looks easy, not because they don’t hear enough trainers swearing and screaming and calling their students morons.

In the sports that are truly analogous to equestrian (skating, pro-am dance, sports where it’s one person paying a coach) it’s not considered okay. Some coaches still do it in skating, but as mentioned–they are not considered good representatives. (That or they’re Russians, some of whom are notoriously abusive, but in general, even “tough” Russian coaches don’t berate the person, they berate the action.) In dance–there was a thread a while back someone posted at danceforums about having witnessed a pro at a competition repeatedly berate his student for poor performance, up to and including dropping his arms while dancing with her. The reaction of the posters (who include students, am dancers, and pros including some of the top pros in the US) was UNIVERSALLY condemnatory and very much in favor of her telling him to take a hike. You can be a fantastic dancer, but you simply do not speak to a student like that, let alone in front of judges, fellow pros, other students and the general public. It was deemed to be immature and highly unprofessional. This from teachers, in many cases, whom I know personally, who have multiple US and international titles, and who as teachers frankly scare the bejesus out of me because they are STRICT and they see every teeny detail. But you know? They’re strict, they’re demanding, and they are not abusive.

I had an abusive h/j trainer who was a right royal bitch (without George’s results to back her up.) I had a firm but fair one, I’ve had dance coaches who are some of the best in the world and who are very demanding and strict and do not hesitate to say “We are going to have to go back to square one here” about something, and they have never attacked me as a person.

I skated what I know was a crap dance test in front of a judge/referee who is pretty much GM of ice skating (only older. Has not only judged the Olympics, he’s refereed them.) He IS the elder statesman. He didn’t pass me (obviously), but he did not call me an idiot. He said my forward outside edges were too weak and my pattern inconsistent so he couldn’t give me a passing score, practice more and try again next time. He didn’t sugar-coat, he didn’t ‘hold my hand and kiss my ass’, but he didn’t say “You’re a horrible skater and that was pathetic.”

You are the customer. You are paying the coach for their knowledge. That gives them the right to critique you. That gives them the right to push you. That does not give them the right to insult and berate you personally.