GM is nothing but a bully.

[Equilibrium]

[QUOTE=spirithorse;5342878]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZHe10OK4qs

Sorry, but what he demonstrates in this video is not respectful, but forceful.

I personally have dealt with many horses like this and have never had to ride the mouth this badly.:eek: He is manhandling just like so many of the exercise riders on the race tracks.[/QUOTE]

How many horses do you gallop at the racetrack spirithorse? Think I’ve quoted you before on this. I weigh 100pds and spent 12 years galloping. I galloped some of the best horses in the world and never had to manhandle them. Some you have to be tougher with than others but you know darn well you can’t manhandle 1200pds of horseflesh. Really just get fet up with this kind of thing. And none of the people I worked for would tolerate someone manhandling horses either.

If anyone read the quote Wayne Lukas said to me somewhere near the begining of this thread you will know it is not accepatable to be pulling and dragging out of a racehorse! From what I see on this thread not too many people could have handled that criticisim. But fact is, I made a balls of that gallop and it was not acceptable.

Terri

[Jeannette_formerly_ponygyrl]

[QUOTE=Ajierene;5341881]
Insults are different than being told what you did wrong.

Examples:

Insult: Your an idiot, your circle is horrible.

What did you learn from this? Well, your circle is not correct, but what is wrong with it?

Correction: You are making an oval shape, not a circle and it is 30M, not 20M.

What did you learn from this? You learn exactly what you did wrong. With this, you can correct your mistake.

I would find any trainer, Mr. Morris included, to lack communication skills if he needs to resort to name calling. I am sure he knows a lot, but this makes him only human and probably not the best teacher out there.[/QUOTE]

eh, it depends. While at times I certainly need to be told what to do or how to do something, sometimes hearing “That was depressing” or “NOOOO!!!” or “You shouldn’t even be jumping crossrails yet” or “Are you blonde?” convey exactly the information I need to hear in that moment - usually a moment where I do know what to do, but sure didn’t pull it off that time. No big deal in a lesson, maybe, but a huge issue XC or at least a humiliation/embarrassment/avoidable sub=par performance…

And yes, those lines are all trademarked by excellent teachers - all Olympians and World Champions - I have ridden with.  I haven't actually had the crossrails comment made to me, but I didn't get to ride with that guy as long as with some of the others....

[candyappy]

I have always loved the George Morris jumping clinic in Practical Horseman Magazine. If you send a photo in for him to critique then you better expect him to do it on every detail. If you go to ride with him you better expect to give it 100 percent. I would expect that if the rider were really trying to do what he asked and couldn’t quite master it he may have reacted a different way. If you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen.

[Tamara_in_TN]

one of the funniest moments for me (so far I can’t watch them all yet) was about day 2 when a woman ( a blonde woman whose name I don’t know as well,I don’t know any of them ) brought something to him to the golf cart and he said some thing like “I need to work more on submission with her”

it was a dry witty clever quick remark made to someone who was not insulted or demeaned, as she was laughing as she walked away.

Tamara in TN

[MHM]

I laughed when he said one of the unmounted kids needed more impulsion on the way to fix a jump on foot. :lol:

[ridingagain]

MHC -

Congrats to you and your fellow riders for a superb job in the clinic… I learned so much just watching the feed ( and thanks to the USEF for that!) You all conducted yourselves well - I wouldn’t have the nerve to try the courses you did - let alone be critiqued on them in front of GM! I’m glad you posted on your perspective. Good luck in your future riding career!!

[sunshinestate]

MHC, I am not sure which of the two EAP participants you are but (1) congrats on getting there and (2) EAP got it right. Your summary and thoughts were very well worded. Thank you for your thoughtful insight. It shows your maturity.

[faraway46]

Well said Anna…

[QUOTE=MHCSK725;5344706]

As a rider who participated in this clinic, I would like to say that most of you are being oversensitive and really quite ridiculous…George was tough on us, but also was very quick to compliment us when we did something correctly… None of his comments, both positive and negative, were undeserved…I also think it is important to point out that upper level riding is not a sport for the weak…Riders need to be tough, both physically and mentally, and sometimes that means riding with a trainer who tells it like it is, instead of “holding one’s hand” throughout the entire lesson. So if a rider cannot handle this “tough love” every so often, he or she may want to consider a different career.

Furthermore, I think it is crucial to recognize the horseman that George truly is…George’s sympathy and care for the wellbeing of the horse were prevalent throughout all of his lessons. He has a specific reason for EVERY SINGLE THING that he does in his riding, training, and horse care…In his 70’s, he is still more interested and involved with the sport than most. And I firmly believe that unless you have accomplished as much as he has in your lifetime, you have no right to criticize him.

In response to Bethe Mounce…It was a learning experience, the purpose of which was to help to further educate us, so that we can hopefully later become top riders in our sport…No one was perfect, and everyone had certain things that they needed to work on, but that was the point. The purpose of this clinic was not to take riders who are already ready top levels of international competition, and put them together for a training session. It was to take riders who show potential, and further educate them on what it takes to be a top competitor in the sport.[/QUOTE]

May I say you all rode great. I know how hard it is, how much pressure is involved and what it takes. I’m not a “couch rider”. All of you were formidable. Don’t let sideline critics belittle that effort. Those who can, do. Those who can’t, critique…

In this sport, being called names is the least that can happen to you and, honestly, if it’s what takes you to the top, so be it. You have to deal with pain, bad luck, unruly FEI decisions and unreasonable owners. You work to the bone doing everything perfect and, worst of all, luck slips out of your way having an undeserved rail. Then it’s back to square one, day in day out.

I have ridden/cliniced with many international riders/trainers (Nicki Simpson, Neco Pessoa, Joe Fragis, Michael Matz, Nona Grason etc) and they all show frustration when someone is talented enough to do something but is not using all their potential. They all show it in their own personal way but it’s never sweet and cuddly (frustration never is…).

As I always say, the best way to make a trainer shut up is perfection. You want him to shut up? Do it right, then. All he will be able to say is “perrrrrfect, beautiful” like George said numerous times. There will be nothing more to add.

I had posted before this inspirational clip from, of all people, Rocky (Stallone). I listen to it from time to time and it always gets to me, and at the end it tells you the best way to deal with “name calling” in life: just get back in the ring/lesson/clinic and prove them wrong!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hoOXa7eFdwc

Great job at the clinic. You’re definitely on your way to the top!

Viv

---

[dags]

[QUOTE=lyndaelyzoo;5344750]
If I were the “victim” of this name calling, I would hate to have it publicized and accessible for the world to see. I think that they should just edit out the name calling parts of the videos online. [/QUOTE]

I meant to sat this earlier but honestly, I believe The Chronicle pulling out that one quote and publishing it is what began this debacle. I’m not sure that when watching the video, with all the context available to the viewer, that anyone would have even noticed the word dumbbell.

So, apparently the Powers That Be at COTH did not find it particularly alarming, in fact I bet they were trying to add a touch of reality and humor to the piece, but I wouldn’t be surprised if next time we see George’s candor whittled down to something that doesn’t offend the sunshine and butterflies crowd… Which is a shame.

[bumknees]

Tried to read through all the pages… Stopped at 19… Anyway… I guess if one wishes to wrap childrens selfessteem in bubblwarp so their feelings never get hurt, then ok fine. But then perhaps the child should go into something less taxing. I hear underwater basket weaving doesnt put to many ‘innapproate’/‘hurtful’. bullying’ type words to those who partake…

But these Jr riders are no doing underwater basketweaving they are riding a horse. They also I would assume live in the ‘real world’ not one of lollipops and sunshine everyday.

I wonder what will happen when this younger generation realizes that gee sometimes someone says something harsh and may hurt your feelings and that person doesnt care if your feelings are hurt. Buck it up or go live in bubblewrap…

[SaturdayNightLive]

[QUOTE=allintexas;5344757]
Hmmm, Michael Vick is a terrible person who thought torturing dogs was fun. This is NOT an exagerration, just read the court documents. He is a conviceted felon. Even most football fans, my husband for one, do not generally support him (some do, sadly)

I don’t think George Morris, who acts cranky and not very nice at times, should be compared to a convicted felon, whether or not you appreciate his style. Much less to forgive here than in Vick’s case[/QUOTE]

You missed my point by about a mile.

I agree that MV is a terrible person and should never be convicted. And no, I don’t think that he can be compared to GM in any way, shape, or form.

The point of my post was that some people on this thread have stated elsewhere that they forgive MV and think he should be allowed to get a pet dog, but are also screaming bloody murder about GM calling someone a dumbbell. I was just pointing out the lack of logic and consistency.

If you read my other posts on this thread, you’ll see where I agree that GM is a great rider, trainer, and clinician.

[mvp]

I think Danceronice nailed it a while back-- there are lots of different ways of teaching top athletes. Yes, they are mentally tough enough to take a lot of pressure. No, the ones that need frequent a$$-kickings aren’t at these levels.

I dunno-- I have been taught by some crotchety dressage “meisterinnen,” (no one can frustrate and level you better than one of these).

I have been barked at by track and crew coaches. Talk about negotiating between one kind of pain or another!

Last but not least, I taught a few university students who are just out-of-the-box smarter than I am but bring some slacker tendencies to the table.

I don’t remember any of my teachers saying stuff that took aim at who I was categorically. I don’t do that to my students. I have never seen a prof do it. If calling a student dumb is the best GM can do, then I’m not impressed.

Why do you guys say stuff like

“But you don’t understand! This isn’t namby-pamby subject, jumping horses Important and Dangerous!”

Tell that to someone teaching teaching an engineering class… who doesn’t find it necessary, effective or even truthful to call his students stupid.

“A GM clinic wasn’t built to fluff a child’s self-esteem!”

Why do you think “regular teaching” has that end in the top ten list of things to get done? Really, the only time anyone talks about that is when too much or too little of it gets in the way of the student’s learning. And, nota bene, if the teacher wakes up in this situation, something has gone really, really wrong for a long time.

[Doctracy]

[QUOTE=Midge;5339890]
Damn, where did you live then??[/QUOTE]
Oklahoma, I went to medical school and was stationed in the Army there.
The murder rate of domestic violence victims was insanely high in OK back then. Still is pretty high. And, this is a problem that is swept under the rug, in all socioeconomic levels. I see it in the ERs, I can report suspected abuse if it’s children but the women I can do nothing about.
Again, my husband is doing a huge study with Johns Hopkins. Even though we live in AZ, OK is the site of the study due to the rate of murdered victims of DV. The biggest risk factor for DV that might be seen in public is not bruises but name calling. Also, the most likely cause of PTSD was, surprisingly, name calling.
Next time you start to call your spouse or child “stupid” or any other not-so nice name because you’re fed up “to-here”, take a deep breath and count to ten. Words do hurt.

[Carol_Ames]

is this the current standard for instruction?

His record for developing horses and riders for international competition is not:yes::no: to be dismissed:no::no: because of his teaching approach:eek:; obviously for a certain level./ type of rider his methods work:yes: I , for one would like to believe that it is possible to gain from his methods without descendin:cool:g to the language he tends to use; for the 1 or 2 horses and riders this may motivate to ride better; I am certain there are a half dozen for whom it does not:cry:; what , I find regrettable is that , the latter group; often label themselves “failures,” " cowards/ dumbbells."not understanding that they are not that ; and not only is he showing a lack of vocabulary but, also a serious lack of awarness of teaching techniques but also of psychology. What I find so discouraging is the fact that other are people who do not consider themselves “taught:yes::no: or instructed” unless they are spoken to in this way:cry:; in fact my last teaching/ training job was under someone who had adopted

gms’ methods wholeheartedly:mad:; I knew there was a "disconnect

[ on avery basic level; but, did not know what until she told me I was “too nice to the students and the horses When I heard that I knew it was time to get out of there:yes::eek:”

[Carol_Ames]

is this the current model for instruction?

His record for developing horses and riders for international competition is not:yes::no: to be dismissed:no::no: because of his teaching approach:eek:; obviously for a certain level./ type of rider his methods work:yes: I , for one would like to believe that it is possible to gain from his methods without descendin:cool:g to the language he tends to use; for the 1 or 2 horses and riderts his may motivate to ride better; I am certain there are a half dozen for whom it does not:cry:; what , I find regrettable is that , the latter group; often label themselves “failures,” " cowards/ dumbbells."not understanding that they are not that ; and not only is he showing a lack of vocabulary but, also a serious lack of awarness of teaching techniques but also of psychology. What I find so discouraging is the fact that other are people who do not consider themselves “taught:yes::no: or instructed” unless they are spoken to in this way:cry:; in fact my last teaching/ training job was under someone who had adopted

gms’ methods wholeheartedly:mad:; I knew there was a "disconnect

[ on avery basic level; but, did not know what until she told me I was “too nice to the students and the horses When I heard that I knew it was time to get out of there:yes::eek:”

[Bethe_Mounce]

[QUOTE=MHCSK725;534470]

In response to Bethe Mounce, I was one of the riders chosen from the USHJA Emerging Athlete Program to participate in this clinic. I have never once been to an equitation final, and have spent my past two years working with my two young, green horses, bringing them along pretty much on my own. I do not ride with a big name trainer. I was lucky enough to have been able to borrow a wonderful horse to ride in the clinic, as I did not believe it was a job that my six-year-old jumper was ready to tackle. This was a huge, wonderful opportunity for me, and a truly, an experience of a lifetime. Yes, there are areas that I most definitely need to work on. However, that was the purpose of the clinic. It was a learning experience, the purpose of which was to help to further educate us, so that we can hopefully later become top riders in our sport. I also must say, that all of the other riders participating in the training session were more than qualified. They all rode beautifully. No one was perfect, and everyone had certain things that they needed to work on, but that was the point. The purpose of this clinic was not to take riders who are already ready top levels of international competition, and put them together for a training session. It was to take riders who show potential, and further educate them on what it takes to be a top competitor in the sport.[/QUOTE]

From what I understand, all participating riders were invited based on a performance record in the show ring. It is a wonderful opportunity, no doubt. Clinics and lessons are where one learns and makes the mistakes. However, what I was seeing (I was educated in Europe, not here) makes me concerned what trainers are teaching. Flatwork, stressed by Mr. Morris, doesn’t appear to be as stressed by the trainers. Flatwork makes a jumper, not the jumping. A following hand over the fence is correct as Mr. Morris mentioned many times. Here in America the opportunity to ride many horses is limited. I think I expect too much from young riders, alot was expected from me at that age, more than what was asked at this clinic. But, I cannot compare my young rider days to the current young rider days. That is not fair. I expect to see effective riding, not perched in the saddle. The excercises he asked of you guys were not easy, that is a given. The courses he asked you to jump were not easy. It appeared to be more about counting strides than anything else. There is SO much more to jumping courses than that. Mr. Morris and I will disagree on the stride thing always. I expected to see everyone know how to use a stick correctly…especially the gal with the horse that wasn’t happy with going forward at times. I guess I am just too old school. I expected more. Young riders should have every opportunity to excel, clinics with Mr. Morris are certainly part of that path. The equitation ranks, from what I have seen, don’t produce many international level riders. Form, is important, always…but there are times when the perfect position is sacrificed. The toes out thing is always a pet peeve of mine. It may be how riding is taught. It is not how I teach it. That, however, does not make me be right. I want effective riders who are flexible with every horse they sit on. By the time I was yalls age, I had done so much more. I guess I want to see you guys have those opportunities too…so much so that you ride every day and never sit on the same horse twice. Some of the best riders don’t have the perfect form. Europe certainly produces very very good riders without an equitation division at their horseshows. Hunters don’t exist over there either. From what I see the equitation division produces riders who appear stiff with their upper bodies on horses that are already trained…I would prefer to see riders on horses they have brought thru the levels as opposed to buying that already trained horse. Yes, it is twice as hard, but at least you are learning more than just pushing buttons. Good luck with your green horses.

[MHM]

Bethe Mounce, the equitation ranks do not produce international level riders? Really?

So in your mind the following riders have not ridden at that level?

Meredith Michaels Beerbaum, Brianne Goutal, Hillary Dobbs, Ray Texel, Nikki Simpson, Chris Kappler, McLain Ward, Candice King, Peter Wylde, Leslie Howard, Katie Prudent, etc., etc., all the way back to and including GM himself.

And that’s just off the top of my head.

[advmom]

The accomplishments and talents of Mr Morris are not in question in this discussion.
The method of “coaching style” is, coaching through intimidation and bullying went out of style with the “Broad Street Bullies”
Not one person on this discussion would defend a teacher in any other forum who spoke to students in such a degrading manner.
Thankfully my daughter does not compete in this discipline.
I agree sometimes riders need some strong encouragement, calling them names is abusive no matter the setting. Some of his statements are just vulgar, and have no place in a public setting with young people who look up to him as a role model
Speaking to them in a mutually respectful manner will win out over abuse any day of the week

[dags]

For the love of god.

IT’S A METAPHOR.

:D:D:D

[system]

[QUOTE=Bethe Mounce;5345462]
From what I understand, all participating riders were invited based on a performance record in the show ring.[/QUOTE]

Actually, Bethe, the two riders from the Emerging Athletes Program were not selected based on a performance record in the show ring. The purpose of the EAP is to give opportunities to riders who show potential to be professionals in the industry, but have not necessarily had the chance to produce an extensive show record. It has nothing to do with equitation rankings, or show ring performance. The two winning riders from the EAP were chosen based on riding talent, overall horsemanship, as well as a written test score. They were most definitely NOT chosen according to their show record.