GM is nothing but a bully.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=Eye in the Sky;5345709]
Then you have not observed very many trainers here in the US. I have ridden with a variety of trainers up and down the east coast, and every single one of them stressed flatwork far more than over fence work. Essentially, jumping is dressage between fences, at least that is how I’ve been taught. I’m disappointed to read that someone from another country views all US trainers this way. I took lessons from so many people, you would think I would have found these trainers that were heavy on the over-fences work, but I never stumbled over a single one - and really, I have a LOT of negative things to say about several of them, but that would not be one of them![/QUOTE]

I dunno. I’m out here on the west coast and the lack of correct flatwork from a lot of trainers makes me sad (not all, but a lot). I rode with a GM-trained instructor (several actually) but didn’t learn how to put a horse on the bit or learn about connection until I rode with a dressage trainer for three years.

Yes, we did flatwork. Lots of it. But it wasn’t correct by dressage standards and wasn’t effective. My world opened up and the horses got significantly better over fences once I learned a true feel.

Carry on.

[Wanderluster]

FWIW George recommended taking dressage lessons at his clinic for TCP west coast .
If you had attended you would know that.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5349299]

If you had attended you would know that. ;)[/QUOTE]

Was that condescension directed at me? I hope not…

I do what I can to continue my education and it makes me so sad that it’s so hard to get to these TCP clinics. I’m planning on getting certified once I am able to fulfill the requirements. In the meanwhile, I take lessons when I can afford it, watch online videos, and read as much as I can.

[findeight]

@Bethe Mounce;5349113

Then I stand corrected. I also noticed not a single rider came from the West Coast. But, then again, it was only two riders chosen from the EAP. Why not more? Perhaps more did not apply to go to Florida? From my observations (each morning at 5 am here in Calif), everyone appeared to come from the equitation ranks.

Ok, I’ll take this one.

The EAP kids selected were provided with horses and 4’ loaners for unknown riders, even well recommended and generously provided, are in scarce supply???

Most, if not all, the major Big Eq Riders do the Jumpers on a regular basis. Not aware of any that only do Eq. So we can also say they came from the Jumper ranks. Quite a few still do the Hunters too.

Far as West Coast? GM teaches out there often, no need to spend time and money schlepping 3k miles when you are going to Thermal and not WEF.

[Velvet]

@goodmorning;5346450

I rode with a very similar trainer this weekend (Michael Plumb).

So sorry. Just make sure YOU ride the horse and are always making the decisions for it. 'nuff said on that one.

[Wanderluster]

SP that remark was directed at you. It states on your blog that you are a young professional and that is precisely what the TCP is aimed at. Educating professionals to have the best knowledge available. The clinic was certainly as close as the Linda Allen clinic that you attended. My business is also very time consuming but I managed to carve out the time from my demanding schedule to get there.
It was interesting to note that the attendants were professionals with MANY years of training experience, all of whom have proven to be outstanding members of the equestrian community. If it was important enough for them to attend I think that you should re examine your priorities. JMHO

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5349384]
SP that remark was directed at you. It states on your blog that you are a young professional and that is precisely what the TCP is aimed at. Educating professionals to have the best knowledge available. The clinic was certainly as close as the Linda Allen clinic that you attended. My business is also very time consuming but I managed to carve out the time from my demanding schedule to get there.
It was interesting to note that the attendants were professionals with MANY years of training experience, all of whom have proven to be outstanding members of the equestrian community. If it was important enough for them to attend I think that you should re examine your priorities. JMHO[/QUOTE]

The reason why I was able to attend the Young Horse Symposium was because they generously offered me a scholarship, I was able to find a free hotel room, and it was Thanksgiving weekend. The stars just aligned right. I loved the experience and hope to be able to do more in the future. I also met some wonderful horsemen who were all very positive, very passionate, and very compassionate about young horses. There wasn’t a single person there I met that I wouldn’t want to meet again.

I do plan on becoming certified FWIW and attending TCPs, but I just haven’t been able to make it work logistically yet. I guess I’ll get to look forward to meeting you there?

[Wanderluster]

SP my clinic requirement is complete-but if I have a rider in the clinic as I did this year I will let you know.
I am much like George when it comes to being DIRECT not condescending very truthful.
Congrats on the scholarship… learning and striving to improve is an imperative if you genuinely are passionate about this sport.
George mentioned MANY time how important dressage is and how fortunate we are on the west coast to have dressage resources like Stephan Peters et al . He absolutely made it clear that it is necessary to cross train.
Appliance repaiman is finished so I’m off to ride.

[Tamara_in_TN]

can anyone tell me the ages of the horses in the clinic ??

thanks

Tamara in TN
(finally halfway thru day two )

[tidy_rabbit]

@Wanderluster;5349500

He absolutely made it clear that it is necessary to cross train.

Did he mention that you need to have 2, or 4, or 6, or 10 legs? LOL :lol: Inside joke. Sorry. I couldn’t help myself.

[sptraining]

[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5349500]
SP my clinic requirement is complete-but if I have a rider in the clinic as I did this year I will let you know.
I am much like George when it comes to being DIRECT not condescending very truthful.
Congrats on the scholarship… learning and striving to improve is an imperative if you genuinely are passionate about this sport.
George mentioned MANY time how important dressage is and how fortunate we are on the west coast to have dressage resources like Stephan Peters et al . He absolutely made it clear that it is necessary to cross train.
Appliance repaiman is finished so I’m off to ride.[/QUOTE]

Wanderluster, have a nice ride!

I did say that I do try to continue my education in the means that I can afford. Stephan, unfortunately, is out of my price range. I have ridden with his students though. I also spend time reading Klimke, Morris, Kursinski, Allen, and I spend time on Bernie Traurig’s website watching the videos, taking notes and trying to apply my knowledge every day. This is what I’ve done since the day I started riding and I’m not about to stop because I changed my cards to professional.

I just made an observation that even though GM might be saying “go ride with a dressage trainer” that somewhere the message is being lost because a lot out here on the west coast don’t - or don’t apply the knowledge. I spent three years with a dressage trainer and it rocked my world. I love dressage almost as much as I love jumping. There is no better feeling than having a horse completely connected over his back (except maybe a perfect distance to a nice big oxer ).

I’ve also done some cross-country and western for fun so I’m good on the cross-training. All my horses go on trail rides too! I would be in the “collect-the-whole set” of TCPs if I could. I love learning!

[system]

[QUOTE=Bethe Mounce;5349113]
Then I stand corrected. I also noticed not a single rider came from the West Coast. But, then again, it was only two riders chosen from the EAP. Why not more? Perhaps more did not apply to go to Florida? From my observations (each morning at 5 am here in Calif), everyone appeared to come from the equitation ranks.[/QUOTE]

The two riders from the EAP were the winner and runner up selected from the third level of the EAP, the National Training Session in November. Riders do not apply to the GHM Training Session; they are invited, which is why more EAP riders were not participating. Also, I believe that they limit the number of riders participating to 12, as this allows each rider to truly get the full benefit out of the week. Allowing more people to participate would result in less time for each rider with George and with the other presenters during the Session, defeating the whole purpose.

In previous years, there have been riders from the West coast as well. This year, by chance, there were not. Again, MOST riders are chosen based on their equitation rankings, either on the USA Equitation list, or performances at the equitation finals. However, two riders, Ali Wolff and Karen Polle were chosen based on their results in the jumpers. And, again, I was one of the two riders coming from the EAP, and I have hardly done any equitation at all, let alone competed at an equitation final. I believe you said that you did not learn to ride in the US? Perhaps what you’re noticing is just a difference between the American style of riding, and the style of riding wherever you learned to ride? Maybe neither style is right or wrong, just slightly different ways of getting the job done?

[goodmorning]

[QUOTE=Velvet;5349378]
So sorry. Just make sure YOU ride the horse and are always making the decisions for it. 'nuff said on that one.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what has promted this response? He’s a very good trainer & rider, he is demanding, but not every style is effective for every rider. That’s the only point I was trying to make. I gained a lot from a very limited time with him.

[MHM]

MHC, I just have to chime in to commend you on your thoughtful and articulate responses on this thread.

Thanks again for your participation.

[lauriep]

[QUOTE=Bethe Mounce;5349113]
Then I stand corrected. I also noticed not a single rider came from the West Coast. But, then again, it was only two riders chosen from the EAP. Why not more? Perhaps more did not apply to go to Florida? From my observations (each morning at 5 am here in Calif), everyone appeared to come from the equitation ranks.[/QUOTE]

In the previous 4 years there were 1-2 riders from CA each year. It is tough for them, as they nearly always have to ride a borrowed horse, and that has not always worked well for them. However, they have all persevered and done well in the clinic.

[Carol_Ames]

the videos? good article!

What happened to the last 2 videos? The article was excellent;

I’m sorry:sadsmile: I forgot who wrote it:no::o

[happyhacker]

Name calling is inexcusable, by anyone, at any age. Professionalism dictates certain behavior. The responsibility to behave in a professional way, belongs to Mr. Morris. It is irrelevant that the students knew he had a reputation when they signed up for the clinic. HE is the professional.

[Wanderluster]

SP and others that are interested in more information about riding with connection~ if you are a member of PCHA you are entitled to a free copy of the DVD “Get Connected” produced by the both PCHA and the USHJA. It presents the correct way to perform the USEF hunter seat equitation tests 1-19. It is a tool for judges clinics as well as demonstrating the proper execution of the tests, it allows the viewer to understand the judges’ perspective. Debbie Mc Donald is one of the riders and her dressage credentials are impeccable.
I don’t wish to belabor the earlier point of the emphasis George places on dressage but rather place facts before remarks from those who are uninitiated with the man’s methods.

[system]

[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5350605]
SP and others that are interested in more information about riding with connection~ if you are a member of PCHA you are entitled to a free copy of the DVD “Get Connected” produced by the both PCHA and the USHJA. It presents the correct way to perform the USEF hunter seat equitation tests 1-19. It is a tool for judges clinics as well as demonstrating the proper execution of the tests, it allows the viewer to understand the judges’ perspective. Debbie Mc Donald is one of the riders and her dressage credentials are impeccable.
I don’t wish to belabor the earlier point of the emphasis George places on dressage but rather place facts before remarks from those who are uninitiated with the man’s methods.[/QUOTE]

These sorts of comments frustrate me because many a time the “rockstar” professionals of both dressage and jumping are not necessarily the best teachers. Simply because one has had great success in the showring does not automatically make them a fantastic teacher. After a lot of success in the dressage ring, my horse and I are enjoying a break trying our hand (and hoof) at the hunters. I am appalled at the “flatwork” I see daily at the barn and very grateful for my formal dressage background. Simply because one big-name professional advocates good flatwork does not mean the entire hunter/jumper world is adopting their policy. Most people cannot afford these high-priced clinics. I think it is more important to place emphasis on getting the lower-end trainers who are just starting out involved and excited about formal dressage, rather than going around namedropping that so-and-so spoke about this at their clinic. It should be a given that jumping trainers use flatwork; we shouldn’t need Debbie McDonald or Steffen Peters… or George Morris or anyone else to tell us these things.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=happyhacker;5350528]
Name calling is inexcusable, by anyone, at any age. Professionalism dictates certain behavior. The responsibility to behave in a professional way, belongs to Mr. Morris. It is irrelevant that the students knew he had a reputation when they signed up for the clinic. HE is the professional.[/QUOTE]

It might make him unprofessional. But he’s still one of the best trainers around so people deal with it. It’s their choice.

I don’t think name calling (certain names anyway) is a big deal or dictates if they are professional or not - other names; yeah.

This cactus has been beaten - what I got out of this thread was - live and let live