GM is nothing but a bully.

[danceronice]

[QUOTE=KC and the Sunshine Band;5354762]
Your post doesn’t make any sense.

So you donated money. Did you do it because you believe in USET or you want some big congrats and a pat on the back? Did you think that perhaps, maybe, your quiet hello couldn’t be heard? Or maybe, just maybe you have crappy timing and he just wanted a break for a minute without some squeeking mouse hoping for some recognition? Or maybe even he knows who you are and that you whine and complain about his behavior and he just didn’t want to be bothered by YOU?[/QUOTE]

A donor in a VIP area says hello, if you are associated with that organization, if you’re not an idiot you are courteous, even if it’s a courteous ‘not now, please.’ Because YES, IT MATTERS IF YOU DONATE MONEY. I’m guessing if the situation involved a VIP access pass then it was not something like $25, either. If you’re an organization that depends even in part on donations, you had damn well better respect people who cough up. Just like you’d better treat your volunteers well if you want to keep getting free labor from them. Otherwise, that donor has lots and lots of other places to spend their money and would be totally justified in telling you so the next time you come asking.

Ask any university, museum, any NFP who’s lost a big donation because someone thought they were too important or special to talk to someone. It doesn’t matter how special you think you are, if they’re writing the checks or giving up their time and labor for you, you muster up some civility.

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=danceronice;5355498]
A donor in a VIP area says hello, if you are associated with that organization, if you’re not an idiot you are courteous, even if it’s a courteous ‘not now, please.’ Because YES, IT MATTERS IF YOU DONATE MONEY. I’m guessing if the situation involved a VIP access pass then it was not something like $25, either. If you’re an organization that depends even in part on donations, you had damn well better respect people who cough up. Just like you’d better treat your volunteers well if you want to keep getting free labor from them. Otherwise, that donor has lots and lots of other places to spend their money and would be totally justified in telling you so the next time you come asking.

Ask any university, museum, any NFP who’s lost a big donation because someone thought they were too important or special to talk to someone. It doesn’t matter how special you think you are, if they’re writing the checks or giving up their time and labor for you, you muster up some civility.[/QUOTE]

So many here act like they have never been stressed, had a bad day or had an extremely tiring day.

How I am not making excuses for what transpired that day with 2ndyrgal - wasn’t there - however you all really need to check your temperments at the door and realize we are all human and have bad days and can possibly take it out on others… we “all” do it.

I am laughing because I’m sure GM is uber stressed often with his schedules and has a lot going on. The percentage of people he deals with, like him… a few have had a bad experiences.

Not everyone is going to like eachother…

[Running_Fox_Farm]

[QUOTE=rileyt;5354603]
God no. P*ssies??!! Well hell. If that’s the case, then let’s try to be more like the football coaches. Because you know, no one ever ended up a productive member of society (or a good football player or horseback rider for that matter) unless they’ve been subjected to a few years of verbal abuse. That is a standard we should undoubtedly aspire to.

Maybe we should be writing USET and DEMANDING that GM use stronger language and more profanity? In fact, maybe George could include a chapter in his next book on teaching beginners titled: “how to demean your students into better performance: fatso, porker, dumbbell and other useful terms” After all – we want our young girls to grow up to be tough competitors, don’t we?[/QUOTE]

Now this thread has just degenerated to just plain stupid! Do you have some kind of a personal bone to pick w/ GM or something??? He wasn’t teaching beginners, you’ve actually used more profanity in your posts than he did in the whole week long clinic, and I was there to hear it personally, and no, I don’t appreciate you saying he needs to make our young girls tough competitors - I hope my son has the chance to be chosen for the Sessions, and he can make my young man ( there WAS a young man there at the sessions too! Doesn’t he count? you’re being sexist!) into a tough but TOP competitor. As far as “dumbbell”??? When he said dumbbell, I, like someone who posted about 489 posts ago , had to suppress a laugh. Do you have a teen age daughter? I did. When they break bad with each other, the language they use turns the air blue - it sure ain’t " dumbbell". You have a right to your opinion , for sure.

[faraway46]

[QUOTE=piftisha;5353000]
Call me whatever you want if your skills and experience can actually help me reach my competitive riding goals.[/QUOTE]

I said the exact same thing in page 18, 25 and 28.
If you can turn me into Mclain Ward, I’ll let you strap me to a cart, whip me like a mule and yell “Yeeeeeha! Giddy up, you dumbell!!” I will still be eternally grateful for helping me reach my riding dreams…
I might be selling myself cheap but what do I care! I’m going to the Olympics! :winkgrin:

[faraway46]

We all agree that he COULD be nicer.
We all agree that he WON’T get nicer.
We all agree that he’s the BEST trainer ever…
Then why is this thread 30 pages long?
Just wondering…

[dab]

@faraway46;5355722

We all agree that he WON’T get nicer.

Actually, I think he’s mellowed over the years.

[faraway46]

[QUOTE=dab;5355775]
Actually, I think he’s mellowed over the years.[/QUOTE]

Although I agree, please, PLEASE don’t say it out loud. It took 30 pages to agree on this! Now it will take another 30 to see if he is more mellow or not!

[faraway46]

[QUOTE=happyhacker;5353258]
Some people think so little of themselves. Amazing! The end, does NOT always justify the means.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, but if his means get me to my happy ending, then I surely justify him.
It just depends on how bad you want something, right?
Would I let myself be “dumbelled” to get to the top? Heck, yeah!
Would I kill for an Olympic medal? Depends…who’s the mark? :winkgrin:

[MistyBlue]

Some people think so little of themselves. Amazing!

Some people have no concept of the fact that not everyone on the planet thinks and feels exactly as they do…I find that amazing.

To illustrate that we don’t all think the same way:

I think people who are this verklempt over GM using the word dumbell to a student who didn’t care one bit about it are the ones who think so little of themselves that they become offended for everyone else. Just to give themselves a stage in which to not feel so little from.

As for GM not saying hello…he did say “Not right now please.” Not “Not right now dumbell.”
A person with an uber-busy schedule and at his age isn’t allowed to have one nano-second of time to himself? Even if he states that wish using the word “please?”
Was he perhaps paying attention to something else…watching something else? Could he have been thinking of something else that might be important to him? Is it at all possible you could have been interrupting him in some way? Because that was a polite reply he gave, you just weren’t happy with it and wanted your recognition.

Body language isn’t hard to read…it’s easy to see when someone is paying attention to the crowds and ready to do a meet and greet. It’s also easy to see when someone’s attention is elsewhere. In the latter case it’s rude to interrupt.

To me it sounds as if he gave a polite reply to a rude interruption.

It also seems to me that there wouldn’t be any issue with the dumbell comment had GM never in his career ever mentioned anyone’s weight. Because it’s really obvious that’s pissed a bunch of people off over the years and they’re ready to jump on anything he says from now on.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=faraway46;5355722]
We all agree that he COULD be nicer.
We all agree that he WON’T get nicer.
We all agree that he’s the BEST trainer ever…
Then why is this thread 30 pages long?
Just wondering…[/QUOTE]

IIRC, the OP wasn’t asking about reforming GM. Here question was something along the lines of “when are we/the USEF going to stop worshipping the man if he’s a bully?”

So yes, most of this 30 pages is about whether or not the guy is a bully.

I’d say a good 1/3 of this discussion has been about

“Bully or not, does the end justify the means?”

And “Does bullying coaching or teaching work well enough, often enough to be broadly acceptable?”

[faraway46]

[QUOTE=mvp;5355941]
IIRC, the OP wasn’t asking about reforming GM. Here question was something along the lines of “when are we/the USEF going to stop worshipping the man if he’s a bully?”

So yes, most of this 30 pages is about whether or not the guy is a bully.

I’d say a good 1/3 of this discussion has been about

“Bully or not, does the end justify the means?”

And “Does bullying coaching or teaching work well enough, often enough to be broadly acceptable?”[/QUOTE]

Exactly.
We agree he is a bully.
We agree that his method has made many, great, top-notch riders. More than any other trainer alive (him and Paul Schockemöhle…and GM is the fairy godmother next to Paul).
We agree that some of us “worship” him because he can help you achieve your equestrian dreams.

Nobody during the 30 pages said GM is PC or sweet. Sometimes funny, sometimes ironic, but certainly not sweet. So we agree on that, too.

Does he have a temper? Yup.
Would we prefer GM to be PC? Probably.
Is it going to happen? Nope.
Will he still be a fantabulous trainer? Yup.
Does his method work for everyone? Nope.
Does the end justify the means? Depends on how badly you want something and what you are willing to do/put up/give up to get what you want. How important that end is to you. That is a case by case answer.

Bottom line: I’m not in love with GM. I just want to use him as my ladder up. I want to be the best I can be and, for now, he is my ticket there. The day someone finds me another trainer who is PC and has his track record, then I will switch Gods. Till then, I am all ears for the “dumbell” call.

For those who don’t want to read them all, I guess that sums up the 30 pages… :winkgrin:

PS: what’s IIRC?

[doublesstable]

[QUOTE=faraway46;5355722]
We all agree that he COULD be nicer.
We all agree that he WON’T get nicer.
We all agree that he’s the BEST trainer ever…
Then why is this thread 30 pages long?
Just wondering…[/QUOTE]

I don’t agree with the above, however, I am only one person on this thread -

30 pages has simply been a back and forth. I find it funny and interesting so I have followed it for entertainment purposes.

PS - when I met him at the lunch table last month GM was sweet. lol.

[SnicklefritzG]

This is a random post to help extend this thread to 32 pages

[mvp]

[QUOTE=faraway46;5356096]
Exactly.
We agree he is a bully.
We agree that his method has made many, great, top-notch riders. More than any other trainer alive (him and Paul Schockemöhle…and GM is the fairy godmother next to Paul).
We agree that some of us “worship” him because he can help you achieve your equestrian dreams.

…

Does the end justify the means? Depends on how badly you want something and what you are willing to do/put up/give up to get what you want. How important that end is to you. That is a case by case answer.

Bottom line: I’m not in love with GM. I just want to use him as my ladder up. I want to be the best I can be and, for now, he is my ticket there. The day someone finds me another trainer who is PC and has his track record, then I will switch Gods. Till then, I am all ears for the “dumbell” call.

For those who don’t want to read them all, I guess that sums up the 30 pages… :winkgrin:

PS: what’s IIRC?[/QUOTE]

IIRC is “If I recall correctly.”

But I think the difference between causality and mere correlation applies here.

Is GM’s bully the Cause of greatness?

Or is he Correlated with the successes of his students?

It’s hard to tell. Assuming GM is the cause doesn’t allow for what the successful riders brought to the table. And it’s hard to tell if he is The Man in a universal sense because we don’t hear from the people whose careers he ended.

I think everyone wants to think that they “have the goods” to ride well and gain something from a reaming out by GM. Or they think, “Well, it will never happen to me because I rock.” Heck, I read what he says about how he’d like a horse to go and what he’d have a rider do to accomplish that and I think I’d be a fine student who would never be called stupid or lazy or fat by GM.

But! Having been a teacher myself, I’m not sure I would tolerate a berating from him. That would seem to invalidate the work I have done (and done well) to get great things from my students without resorting to that kind of tactic.

[2ndyrgal]

At the risk of pushing this to the top again

I’ll be more specific about my very brief encounter with Mr. Morris.

I was a patron in the hospitality tent at the WEG for almost two weeks. The tickets were quite dear and my sister and I were having a wonderful time. As the competition hadn’t yet started and it was prior to lunch, it was very quiet and not very crowded. I don’t walk about dripping in jewels and furs, it was cold that day and I was appropriately dressed.

About 5 minutes prior Mr. Lyons, (Altech) made eye contact with me, smiled and took a couple of minutes of his time to ask me if I was enjoying myself, were the games everything I’d hoped for so far and to thank me for supporting it. My support of the WEG (though we did host a driving team at our farm) was FAR less than his and he took his time to be polite and gracious and I appreciated it.

Minutes after that as I was on my way back to one of the little shops in the hospitality tent, I noticed Mr. Morris sitting in a chair, facing the aisle, alone. Not speaking to anyone. Not next to anyone, not talking on his phone. As I came nearer and noticed that it was Mr. Morris and he had turned his head, I simply said “excuse me, Mr. Morris”. I had simply intended to wish him good luck. He said nothing, instead simply gave me a be-gone with you dismissive wave of his hand, and I quickly turned away and went on about my business.

For all he knew, I could have had a fat checkbook and been in the mood to write one.

My point was, it is easy and accepted for someone to say "I’m sorry, I’m waiting for someone, not now, or at least do any of the accepted little gestures that indicate that you’d prefer not to be disturbed, without being rude to someone. That he chose not to do that spoke more to me about the man’s character than any of his other accomplishments.

Often people, rightly or wrongly, are judged by one seemingly insignificant act, or a bad decision and are then linked much more closely with that one little blot than anything, or legions of good things they’ve done in the past. Happens all the time to sports figures, politicians, etc.

[Muggle_Mom]

Often people, rightly or wrongly, are judged by one seemingly insignificant act, or a bad decision and are then linked much more closely with that one little blot than anything, or legions of good things they’ve done in the past. Happens all the time to sports figures, politicians, etc.

If you are willing to judge GM based on a “dismissive wave” over the legions of great things he has done in his life, then it speaks much more to your arrogance than GM’s character.:mad:

[SnicklefritzG]

Muggle Mom, I’d have to disagree.

I think what 2ndyrgal said makes a lot of sense. “Noblesse Oblige”.

'nuff said

[MHM]

[QUOTE=mvp;5356428]
And it’s hard to tell if he is The Man in a universal sense because we don’t hear from the people whose careers he ended.[/QUOTE]

As much as I hate to reply on this thread at this point…

Anybody who had their riding career ended by a harsh remark from GM was not destined to be very successful in the first place.

It’s a tough sport, full of all kinds of disappointments. Any hothouse rose who couldn’t let a few stinging remarks roll off the back would not get very far in the big picture.

[dags]

May I never hold such esteem that a split moment of my very long day; my mind enthralled, my laurels resting, my hand on auto-pilot, filling in while the head is elsewhere, have that much impact on one person. Who, in turn, is so profoundly insulted they punish an entire team of people who were in no way related to that split second.

May I never be so great that I get hung out to dry for using colorful, easily identifiable metaphors, while those doing the hanging show equally little, if not far less, restraint of their own language.

May I never be so successful that my own achievements are questioned not on their merit, but on my quirks. Quirks being what they are, endearing to some, positively intolerable by others.

The limelight is just not nearly as attractive in this 24/7 communique world.

I expect the president of Alltech to be diplomatic, he is a business man, his job is to be sure your smiling while he processes your credit card and he’s clearly successful at that. I expect politicians to be diplomatic, likewise as they promise things they have no intention of fulfilling.

Please just let GM be a human. I’m not of the “God” camp and this is why. I just want him to be the best chef d’equippe he can be, the best trainer and horseman he can be. And has been said 265,000 times on this thread, that proof is in the pudding.

And good grief, did you SEE our show jumping team at WEG? I mean lordy lordy, it was a disaster. We totally fell apart. As an actual horse trainer I am 100% familiar with being enthralled by the performance of student and horse. If they’ve suddenly stumbled into a pit of suckiness you can bet I’m down there with them. This is why athletes and coaches have scheduled meet and greets - they are not paid to be diplomatic and need fair warning to turn off the game in their head and focus on their (notoriously lacking) communication skills.

Indygal, I hope you’ll reconsider your commitment to the overall sport, because it is far more than GM. He is not god and does not need to be lifted heads and shoulders above everyone else. But he absolutely should be respected for his equestrian achievements.

[dags]

@MHM;5356665

As much as I hate to reply on this thread at this point…

I just had that exact experience.