My mom who isn’t a horse person has a totally different take on the 32 pages of text:
“He’s old. He’s grumpy. He probably didn’t do a#2 before he left the house. Give the man a break and move on”
(note: yes, she does know who GM is)
This might be a bit OT, but I for one would like to be enlightened as to the “legions of great things” he’s done.
He’s a horse trainer/riding instructor, he doesn’t teach clinics or play chef d’equip for free, I don’t believe.
Does he do any volunteer work or help at animal shelters or anything like that, or donate his time for free to handicap centers or horse rescues?
Well, GM’s “legions of great things” are centered on the hunter/jumper world, essentially an entertainment industry, so I understand great is relative, but …
For a list of achievements, here’s a link to the Show Jumping Hall of Fame:
GM’s Horsemastership Training Clinics help raise considerable funds for deserving athletes:
Horsemastership Training Clinic
GM sings the praises of OTTB’s for hunter/jumpers which could potentially save thousands of horses as more and more trainers heed his advice. I’ve read of countless hours he volunteers toward the sport and his ability to rally others to do the same. He is single-minded and focused on preserving the highest standards of horsemanship and discipline that set apart the American teams for decades.
That’s GM’s work. He’s not curing cancer or feeding starving children, but I think it’s wrong to dismiss GM’s achievements and withhold your support of USET because he can be a curmudgeon.
And I would have to ask “What time?” The man works 24/7. He rarely takes time off. When not actively “working” he is still EDUCATING himself by reading the stacks of horse/riding/horsemanship (and who knows what else) books that he keeps. He donates his time, as do most all of the clinicians, to the Horsemastership clinic. The other clinics, and his position as chef, are his JOB, how he earns his living. Is he supposed to do those for free??
[QUOTE=advmom;5356833]
Well stated Jumphigh…but what do the likes of GM care about the future of the sport or where the money will come from to continue to pay he and his cohorts.
People keep doing it for the “privilege” of being subjected to verbal abuse:([/QUOTE]
Unless you are into some sort of masoquism, I would guess nobody enjoys being abused. No one says “I pay GM to insult me”. They say “I pay GM to teach me”. Sometimes, the occasional “dumbell” comes with the act IF you do things REAPETEDLY wrong, in which case maybe you were being a bit dumb. Since obviously the victim of the “dumbell” offense did the exercise perfectly once she snapped out of her dumbness, then it is obvious she was talented enough to do so in the first place. Maybe she just was not listening or “playing dumb”? 
In any order, GM noticed that she was capable of doing what she was asked but she was just not paying attention, in which the “dumbell” came out and hence, she could do the task. In strict analysis of the situation, I would say his system, in this occasion, worked for her…
It’s not a privilege to be insulted by him, maybe not even a privelege to be taught by him (because you can always pay to do so, not that he picks a handful of stars and only dedicates his time to them), but it sure is a privilege to be a top rider, and that is where GM comes into the act: to achieve your goal of being at the top. You want it?? How much do you want it?? For those of us who yearn that privelege more than anything, we will take what comes with the package. The good, the bad and the ugly.
Then there are those who ask “what if GM would be nice instead of “nasty”? Would his training be just as effective or maybe better?”. I guess we will never know. It’s like asking if cows would fly, would it be easier to milk them… All I know that it works as it is and being well into his 70s, I don’t think there is a chance to experiment “what ifs”.
One must not forget he is a horse/rider trainer and a good profesional at that if you ask me. He has had bad days like all of us, but his goods outweigh his bads twicefold. He is a trainer and a darn good one. He is not a PR rep, or a diplomat or a charity director so let’s expect of people what they are and not what we would like them to be.
[QUOTE=Jumphigh83;5357347]
I did not blame GM for anything, I blamed bad social behavior. And no, the point was not that anyone would “want” to “sit on the stands of NASCAR” but that they actually HAVE people to sit in the stands. Sigh…never mind…no wonder this sport has a limited fan base. :rolleyes::dead:[/QUOTE]
Do you ever look at the “empty” stands at the horse races… :lol:
When you say “never mind and no wonder this sport has a limited fan base” did you waive your hand at me. :lol:
I need to stop looking at this thread… it’s like a car accident… you just “have” to look! And were probably causing internet traffic.
Can somebody please start a Parelli thread - or a rollkur thread or a barefoot thread. 640 posts slanging or defending one man is a bit circular…and he’s not an ogre.
[QUOTE=Muggle Mom;5358342]
Well, GM’s “legions of great things” are centered on the hunter/jumper world, essentially an entertainment industry, so I understand great is relative, but …
For a list of achievements, here’s a link to the Show Jumping Hall of Fame:
GM’s Horsemastership Training Clinics help raise considerable funds for deserving athletes:
Horsemastership Training Clinic
GM sings the praises of OTTB’s for hunter/jumpers which could potentially save thousands of horses as more and more trainers heed his advice. I’ve read of countless hours he volunteers toward the sport and his ability to rally others to do the same. He is single-minded and focused on preserving the highest standards of horsemanship and discipline that set apart the American teams for decades.
That’s GM’s work. He’s not curing cancer or feeding starving children, but I think it’s OT to dismiss GM’s achievements and withhold your support of USET because he can be a curmudgeon.[/QUOTE]
I never said I was doing any of those things.
And the Hall of Fame and other things you listed are certainly great accomplishments not to be diminished, but ultimately were things he was being paid to do in some way and benefitted him in the long run through experience, horse sales etc and resume building, to be honest. None of them were things he did out of the goodness of his heart, to benefit someone or something else, expecting little to nothing for himself in return.
Doing his JOB and doing things which promote his JOB and put money in his pocket (singing the praises of OTTB’s and trying to preserve standards of horsemanship), while heartwarming, are hardly “legions of great things” as you posted earlier. Not saying he is or isn’t a bad person or whatever, but let’s not canonize the man for doing his job.
If he volunteered at a horse rescue or handicapped riding center or to put 30 days on say 10 ottb’s a year that were headed for slaughter, we might could call those “great things”. Doing what is really just his job that he is getting paid for, not so much.
[quote=loshad;5337858]IIRC the big commandments of riding with him are:
-
Thou Shalt Pay Attention
-
Thou Shalt Try Hard
-
Thou Shalt Make Every Attempt To Do As You Are Told
-
Thou Shalt Be Fit Enough To Perform As An Athlete
Sounds like the girl from the OP violated 3 of the 4. Dumbbell is probably about right.
[/quote]
I’m sure it’s well past the time to say something like this but “two big thumbs up” for the above quotes. If you can’t take the heat, get out of the kitchen…there’s plenty of other trainers to ride with who will stroke your ego and let you get away with crap.
(I SOOOOOOO love the R. Lee Ermy quote/commercial. Makes me laugh every freaking time I see it…and it’s so true. Love when he throws the box of tissues at him.)
[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;5358515]
I never said I was doing any of those things.
And the Hall of Fame and other things you listed are certainly great accomplishments not to be diminished, but ultimately were things he was being paid to do in some way and benefitted him in the long run through experience, horse sales etc and resume building, to be honest. None of them were things he did out of the goodness of his heart, to benefit someone or something else, expecting little to nothing for himself in return.
Doing his JOB and doing things which promote his JOB and put money in his pocket (singing the praises of OTTB’s and trying to preserve standards of horsemanship), while heartwarming, are hardly “legions of great things” as you posted earlier. Not saying he is or isn’t a bad person or whatever, but let’s not canonize the man for doing his job.
If he volunteered at a horse rescue or handicapped riding center or to put 30 days on say 10 ottb’s a year that were headed for slaughter, we might could call those “great things”. Doing what is really just his job that he is getting paid for, not so much.[/QUOTE]
Oh good lord are you serious? You seem to be implying that the only way someone can be considered a person who does “great things” is to dedicate his life to animal welfare, or more specifically saving horses from slaughter.
Here’s a newsflash - most people have paying jobs that they are paid to do, yet they do not make an impact in their fields to the point where they are known by name by everyone in that field all over the world. George Morris has done just that. I’m pretty sure that is what was meant with respect to the comment regarding his accomplishments, and monetary exchange has no bearing on the extent of his contribution to the equestrian world.
I’m just getting around to watching the videos of the clinic, and I have yet to see or hear anything that could be considered bullying. I find him to be quite personable and funny, on top of being a great educator.
[QUOTE=sptraining;5337745]
Studies show that students learn better in a close-to-stress-free environment.
My only concern is that an individual with a stature like his sets the tone for other lesser trainers who think it’s okay to belittle their students on a daily basis. I’m pretty sure GM name calls for show, but I’ve ridden other trainers who try to emulate him and it just turns into a disaster of crying kids, pissed off parents, and unaccomplished goals. I’m fine with insults because I am hard enough on myself that I can ignore them but not everyone is like me. But I’ll tell you that I’ve hesitated riding with him because I haven’t had a fancy horse and didn’t want to be the one who couldn’t do the exercise because my horse’s ability was limited. I do think that in order to be a top rider, you have to have a dig-down-deep-toughness and so you need to be able to develop a selective hearing that filters out insults and gossip.
“Don’t apologize for making a mistake. No one comes out here to make a mistake on purpose. Just don’t make the same mistake twice.” - Linda Allen[/QUOTE]
These are international-caliber prospects! Do you think riding anchor on the Nations Cup team at WEG, Spruce Meadows, or the Olympics is low stress???
and I hope you had your hat off when you spoke his name :>
how about some old school Ermey?? enjoy…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z3nHAi2oxw
Tamara in TN
[QUOTE=Jaegermonster;5358515]
I never said I was doing any of those things.
And the Hall of Fame and other things you listed are certainly great accomplishments not to be diminished, but ultimately were things he was being paid to do in some way and benefitted him in the long run through experience, horse sales etc and resume building, to be honest. None of them were things he did out of the goodness of his heart, to benefit someone or something else, expecting little to nothing for himself in return.
Doing his JOB and doing things which promote his JOB and put money in his pocket (singing the praises of OTTB’s and trying to preserve standards of horsemanship), while heartwarming, are hardly “legions of great things” as you posted earlier. Not saying he is or isn’t a bad person or whatever, but let’s not canonize the man for doing his job.
If he volunteered at a horse rescue or handicapped riding center or to put 30 days on say 10 ottb’s a year that were headed for slaughter, we might could call those “great things”. Doing what is really just his job that he is getting paid for, not so much.[/QUOTE]
I don’t understand what you meant by “I never said I was doing those things.” 
You agree that he had great accomplishments that should not be diminished - this is all I ever said. But if you think a paycheck is the primary reason GM conducts numerous clinics nationwide for juniors and ammies - those who will never be Olympic calibre but appreciate the opportunity to learn from a master - then we must agree to disagree. The clinic my daughter rode in was in November and it was freezing. GM stood there for hours teaching earnest “nobodies” and riding a few balky OTTB’s. The man is in his 70’s and he has no reason to continue to do this other than his dedication to his sport and the desire to pass on what he has learned and believes. That’s great in my book.:yes:
[QUOTE=ynl063w;5358582]
Oh good lord are you serious? You seem to be implying that the only way someone can be considered a person who does “great things” is to dedicate his life to animal welfare, or more specifically saving horses from slaughter.
Here’s a newsflash - most people have paying jobs that they are paid to do, yet they do not make an impact in their fields to the point where they are known by name by everyone in that field all over the world. George Morris has done just that. I’m pretty sure that is what was meant with respect to the comment regarding his accomplishments, and monetary exchange has no bearing on the extent of his contribution to the equestrian world.
I’m just getting around to watching the videos of the clinic, and I have yet to see or hear anything that could be considered bullying. I find him to be quite personable and funny, on top of being a great educator.[/QUOTE]
Yup! :yes:
One of the many great aspects of this forum, is the ability to debate a question. And debate we have. I suspect this will not be the last post about GM and his choice of words. Just because I may feel intolerant of his rudeness, I certainly don’t mind if others want to tolerate it for the benefit of his expertise. I will close my comments with this true story: I offered my daughter a chance to attend a GM clinic. She declined saying his reputation for rudeness, bluntness, and comments about a rider’s weight (my daughter is very slender), intimidated and made her nervous. She said she did not feel that she would be very “teachable” under those circumstances. Another young adult in our barn had attended a GM clinic and reported some similar unkind verbage by Mr. Morris. I say, what a shame that this man who has possibly the most technical knowledge in our sport, has this kind of reputation. With so much he can share, teach and add to the sport, it makes me sad that he can’t change his ways just enough to be moderately polite. But, I agree with those who say it isn’t gonna happen. So some of us will watch the videos or possibly audit his clinics without the risk of embarrassment, and I think that’s okay. :yes:
[QUOTE=happyhacker;5358766]
One of the many great aspects of this forum, is the ability to debate a question. And debate we have. I suspect this will not be the last post about GM and his choice of words. Just because I may feel intolerant of his rudeness, I certainly don’t mind if others want to tolerate it for the benefit of his expertise. I will close my comments with this true story: I offered my daughter a chance to attend a GM clinic. She declined saying his reputation for rudeness, bluntness, and comments about a rider’s weight (my daughter is very slender), intimidated and made her nervous. She said she did not feel that she would be very “teachable” under those circumstances. Another young adult in our barn had attended a GM clinic and reported some similar unkind verbage by Mr. Morris. I say, what a shame that this man who has possibly the most technical knowledge in our sport, has this kind of reputation. With so much he can share, teach and add to the sport, it makes me sad that he can’t change his ways just enough to be moderately polite. But, I agree with those who say it isn’t gonna happen. So some of us will watch the videos or possibly audit his clinics without the risk of embarrassment, and I think that’s okay. :yes:[/QUOTE]
Yes, totally understand your daughters feelings; but just as she feels like that, there are some that feel they want to go in a GM clinic and say; I will make sure I am super fit, and work really hard to learn and be the best I can be for the man.
[QUOTE=rileyt;5353206]
2ndyrgal - I agree with everything you said, and I think you’ve captured the point of my initial post in a much clearer way than I did.[/QUOTE]
Ditto.
Edited to add: ditto to your agreement, not ditto that you didn’t explain it clearly. 
[QUOTE=danceronice;5355498]
A donor in a VIP area says hello, if you are associated with that organization, if you’re not an idiot you are courteous, even if it’s a courteous ‘not now, please.’ Because YES, IT MATTERS IF YOU DONATE MONEY. I’m guessing if the situation involved a VIP access pass then it was not something like $25, either. If you’re an organization that depends even in part on donations, you had damn well better respect people who cough up. Just like you’d better treat your volunteers well if you want to keep getting free labor from them. Otherwise, that donor has lots and lots of other places to spend their money and would be totally justified in telling you so the next time you come asking.
Ask any university, museum, any NFP who’s lost a big donation because someone thought they were too important or special to talk to someone. It doesn’t matter how special you think you are, if they’re writing the checks or giving up their time and labor for you, you muster up some civility.[/QUOTE]
That is so true. In the poster’s case, as it is explained, if a representative working for a company, university, etc. had treated donors that way, he/she could be fired. That’s just not how you treat people who want to support your cause. And I do agree that the USET dropped the ball big time not to follow-up. They have no excuse. They may not be able to control GM, but they certainly should have tried to make amends with a donor.
I don’t think anyone (certainly not me!) is suggesting that GM should be fired or strung up by his toes. For me, it was just a surprise that someone of his caliber even needed to make some of his belittling comments (and in my experience, his comments were directed at an auditor. That was ridiculous!).
On a completely different note, I also agree with another poster way back in the list that said the flatwork wasn’t very good. I saw that in this clinic too, and while GM was trying to start his jumping lesson with the riders doing flatwork, most didn’t know proper bend (horses were counter bent through circles), didn’t know what or how to perform haunches-in, shoulder-in, etc. Good for that poster who said he/she took some dressage lessons to augment her jumping lessons. I’ve seen how much that can help with jumping.
There are dressage lessons and dressage lessons - the crank and spank would be counter productive, the seat to leg to hand would be productive. Lightness must be emphasized.
[QUOTE=Touchstone Farm;5359588]
I don’t think anyone (certainly not me!) is suggesting that GM should be fired or strung up by his toes. For me, it was just a surprise that someone of his caliber even needed to make some of his belittling comments (and in my experience, his comments were directed at an auditor. That was ridiculous!).
[QUOTE]
Auditors in these clinics should be as attentive as the riders, or not be there. I have attended perhaps a dozen of George’s clinics, and some of other riders. The auditors are talking, leaving cell phones on, texting, completely oblivious to how easy it is to hear them from the ring (and there is nothing wrong with George’s hearing) and how distracting it is to him and other auditors. Good for him to call them out on it. I’d do the same thing.
[QUOTE=Muggle Mom;5358705]
I don’t understand what you meant by “I never said I was doing those things.”
You agree that he had great accomplishments that should not be diminished - this is all I ever said. But if you think a paycheck is the primary reason GM conducts numerous clinics nationwide for juniors and ammies - those who will never be Olympic calibre but appreciate the opportunity to learn from a master - then we must agree to disagree. The clinic my daughter rode in was in November and it was freezing. GM stood there for hours teaching earnest “nobodies” and riding a few balky OTTB’s. The man is in his 70’s and he has no reason to continue to do this other than his dedication to his sport and the desire to pass on what he has learned and believes. That’s great in my book.:yes:[/QUOTE]
Perhaps he should offer a grant in each of his clinics so that a student who might be a very good rider but not able to afford his fee (the one here was $750 for 3 days) is able to learn from him also.
As far as my statement that you said you didn’t understand, read the last paragraph in your post that I quoted. That is what I was answering since you were talking to me.
