GM is nothing but a bully.

[Clay_Jackson]

First of all I will say that GM and his methods of communicating are not my technique, having said that I will say this next…If you care about the horse and the riders safety, and especially the horses overall experience, I am in full agreement with whatever it takes to get through to someone.
I have experienced Gm over many years, not without reception of his well known expressiveness. Even though I may have felt embarrassed or humiliated or wonderfully complimented, I knew in myself he was likely right, and isn’t that the bottom line? Do you think anyone who sustained a lifelong disability or injured a horse or just did a really stupid thing should/could have been ‘enlightened’ by someone? Wouldn’t you be grateful that in your quest to be the best you can be, someone that has so much to offer doesn’t waste your time ‘coddling your ego’, but sticks to teaching you what they can in given time? Leave the warm and fuzzy to your mother or your cat…this is a dangerous sport and we(riders/trainers) owe a lot more to our horse, they don’t have a voice, and I would wager if they did, it would make GM sound like a kitten. I have seen so many idiots and fools at all levels, with their riding and treatment of horses. It amazes me that so many can’t sunderstand that what we ask of the horse isn’t at all for your ego, that is a by product of a good and fair relationship.

Before I get of the box…How many of you have really sat down and talked with the man? So quick to judge something/someone you don’t understand? Maybe the world is flat…

[ivy62]

I have watched GM ride in competition and teach as well. He reminds me of another “TASK MASTER”, if anyone is into symphonies, Arthur Feidler from the Boston Pops. He was the same way but the symphony was world known. If you worked with him you expected this treatment for this is who he was and he got results. It was a compliment alone if he let you play for him.

You do not go in expecting sweet, you get honest and correct. I hope there are others that can teach like him or it will all be lost when he is gone. GM is not getting any younger. So we all need to toughen up and take it and LEARN form him and yes he is normally always right!
Now I’ll go back to reading

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=Bethe Mounce;5337647]

As someone mentioned, these riders who’re participating, are supposed to be the “pick” of the litter as far as riding is concerned in this country. At the risk of offending, are you kidding me???

These riders have trainers, these riders are mounted on the hundred thousand dollar types of horses. Yes, there are serious holes in the riders training.

What do those holes say about what the trainers are teaching now?

These riders, from what I understand, come from the equitation ranks. Sorry, guys…I wouldn’t let any of these kids near anything I have except for one little girl. These riders can count strides and that’s about it.

Tell me…perhaps I am SO barking up the wrong tree…why do these riders all ride with their toes out? The horses are being banged with that spur at almost every stride. It is toes in, always.

These riders may “sit pretty” but as far as effective riding is concerned…I see very little on these videos.

Umhummm…and I look at the pictures of the eq riders - the BIG winners, McClay, ASPCA, Talent Search, etc., etc., etc. and what do I see? Picture after picture of sprawled on the neck crest release. I tell myself, “Well, but these courses are probably difficult, and they must be good riders if they can negotiate them, despite what I see in these pictures…” Then I think about the old pics of Mary Mairs, Holmfeld and GM himself as junior eq riders; STRAIGHT LINE FROM BIT TO ELBOW. leg tight, heel down (not slipped back with an exaggerated heel down that won’t really give them security). And who is responsible for “crest release” being accepted as correct for the very TOP equitation riders? Hmmmmm? Who says it’s his fault that they keep doing this? Hmmmmm? So, basically, if one wants to be really picky, if these people don’t ride well, it’s GM’s fault! ROFLOL So he should correct it and be polite about it. You don’t beyotch at people when it’s YOUR fault they ride the way they do.

[ivy62]

Wasn’t the crest release supposed to be a stepping stone to the automatic release? I agree that the Auto release is the best but no one teaches it any more. I saw a recent picture of a highly regarded Hunter rider. They are leaning over the horses neck and to one side. The butt is so high out of the saddle also. I looked at a Mclain Ward shot and yes he still does a crest release but he is so balanced over his horse it is such a beautiful picture.
When at WEG is saw a lot of foreign riders do it right, this is why they win and we don’t…

[HRF_Second_Chance]

I’ve seen a bunch of pictures recently of the same thing. Riding up in the heel, pinching with the knee, crest release and leaning off to one side. But that’s hunters and that’s the style.

I understand that you want control over your jumper at all times, especially if you have to land and roll back to a huge oxer/triple bar/water, etc. Or for your equitation round.

However, isn’t the point of hunters to make it look like they DON’T need to be controlled? I guess I don’t understand the need for an auto release in the hunters.

And I chalk some of this up to the “en vogue” thing of the day. Since I’m in my 30’s, I remember the days of the “flat as a pancake saddle.” Now everyone has knee and thigh blocks (myself included).

[arbor_hill]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;5383388]

[QUOTE=Bethe Mounce;5337647]
As someone mentioned, these riders who’re participating, are supposed to be the “pick” of the litter as far as riding is concerned in this country. At the risk of offending, are you kidding me???

These riders have trainers, these riders are mounted on the hundred thousand dollar types of horses. Yes, there are serious holes in the riders training.

What do those holes say about what the trainers are teaching now?

These riders, from what I understand, come from the equitation ranks. Sorry, guys…I wouldn’t let any of these kids near anything I have except for one little girl. These riders can count strides and that’s about it.

Tell me…perhaps I am SO barking up the wrong tree…why do these riders all ride with their toes out? The horses are being banged with that spur at almost every stride. It is toes in, always.

These riders may “sit pretty” but as far as effective riding is concerned…I see very little on these videos.

Umhummm…and I look at the pictures of the eq riders - the BIG winners, McClay, ASPCA, Talent Search, etc., etc., etc. and what do I see? Picture after picture of sprawled on the neck crest release. I tell myself, “Well, but these courses are probably difficult, and they must be good riders if they can negotiate them, despite what I see in these pictures…” Then I think about the old pics of Mary Mairs, Holmfeld and GM himself as junior eq riders; STRAIGHT LINE FROM BIT TO ELBOW. leg tight, heel down (not slipped back with an exaggerated heel down that won’t really give them security). And who is responsible for “crest release” being accepted as correct for the very TOP equitation riders? Hmmmmm? Who says it’s his fault that they keep doing this? Hmmmmm? So, basically, if one wants to be really picky, if these people don’t ride well, it’s GM’s fault! ROFLOL So he should correct it and be polite about it. You don’t beyotch at people when it’s YOUR fault they ride the way they do.[/QUOTE]

Wow… That’s a bit harsh. Those courses set at the GM Horsemaster Session were definately technical and needed an advanced skill level to execute.

p.s. ‘maclay’: correct spelling for the equitation class you mentioned above.
Also, the ASPCA is the Maclay equitation class, as it’s sponsored by the
ASPCA…just to clarify.

---

www.arborhillfarmllc.com

[ivy62]

If I am not mistaken, hunter classes were supposed to mimic the field hunter. When I rode pony hunters in the 70’s, so I am bit older then you and had a flat saddle which I loved, you better have had control on an outdoor hunt course. You needed to be able to do the courses, which sometimes included jumping in and out of a ring and getting off and jogging over a small veritcal in hand also. The rounds were done at more of a hand gallop then the slow controlled canter you see now and striding was not marked by how many but easy and even. So If your horse had a smaller stride but still covered ground it is was okay… I still think an advanced rider should do an auto release…JMHO…

[HRF_Second_Chance]

I totally agree that everyone should know how to do the auto, once they are strong and secure.

To be honest, I miss “the old days” of classes being that way. Should it really matter that my horse got there in 5? Regardless of pace? Or should it matter how smooth and flowing it looked.

I haven’t read it in awhile, but I don’t recall Judging Hunters and Hunter Seat Equitation saying much about getting deducted for adding/taking out strides.

[findeight]

Ok…now this is morphing into yet another thread about how “things were better in the old days why does everybody ride so bad and it’s ALL GMs fault even if he did not work with them and even if he said no but was overuled in selecting International riders or they chose not to take his advice”.

Yep, it’s ALL his fault.

Now take off your helmet and leave Hells Arena-the season for this trainwreck is over.

[Velvet]

Or
[I]

Tell me…perhaps I am SO barking up the wrong tree…why do these riders all ride with their toes out? The horses are being banged with that spur at almost every stride. It is toes in, always.
[/I]

Okay, I had to jump into this one. There was an anatomical study done for Anatomy of Dressge. A person’s toes will point out by up to 40 degrees, if you want the leg and hip in the correct position. Forcing the toe to be perfectly forward forces the riders leg into a locked position, which creates instability and inflexibilty in the riders leg and seat.

[I]Also, some riders have issues with hip rotation. As long as they are not really pointing out just to get the spur on the horse, you need to let this one go. It’s not correct to say that toes forward is correct and the only acceptable leg position for a quiet rider with a good seat and leg. (Usually it mucks up the seat and leg. People have to get past a “look” and move on to function.)

[/I]

[MHM]

@HRF Second Chance;5383687

I haven’t read it in awhile, but I don’t recall Judging Hunters and Hunter Seat Equitation saying much about getting deducted for adding/taking out strides.

I know there was a newer edition put out a few years ago with more current pictures, but I believe that book was originally written 25-30 years ago. So, you know, things can change over the course of three decades.

And it’s a good book, but it still reflects the opinion of that ONE judge who wrote it. It’s not the universal opinion of every judge on the planet.

[ise]

Perhaps the hard reality is that a person who has had a long career as a trainer in the H/J world is basicly not a nice person. Actually he is un-necessarily mean. He has always had an obsession with size and given his personal physique - feels riders should be bordeline anorexic and have absolutely NO THIGHS. Apparantely in this long career of his he has never taken the time to accept the FACT that men and women have different builds and body types.

I just would like to opt out of having any of my dues to the USEF used for people who are basicly rude and mean. Regardless of what technical skill they have to offer - the trade off isn’t worth it. Eons ago I took a clinic with Bertalen de Nemethy - GM couldn’t touch the soles of that mans boots. De Nemethy was a genius technically, a great horseman and a TRUE GENTLEMAN. And quite honestly our teams did better under the coaching of the Gentleman.

And as far as individuals participating in clinics being able to take solid criticism - I certainly agree. But humiliating people is a rather pathetic road to travel down as it is a double edged sword. I’ve always felt the people that get really nasty and degrading to others usually have some skeletons in their own closet.

[Perfect_Pony]

@ise@ssl;5383775

But humiliating people is a rather pathetic road to travel down as it is a double edged sword. I’ve always felt the people that get really nasty and degrading to others usually have some skeletons in their own closet.

LOL. From what I remember hearing, it’s more of an S&M dungeon than a closet. And there are plenty of skeletons in there

[findeight]

Yet many names bandied about here all the time as regular beacons of light, talent, compassion and kindness in the equestrian world have regular 800 pound gorillas hanging around the room that won’t fit in any closet.

I imagine most people mid 70ish have a few things in their own closets.

[Perfect_Pony]

@findeight;5383814

I imagine most people mid 70ish have a few things in their own closets.

Probably even most of us 40 year olds!

[lcw579]

@Perfect Pony;5383792

LOL. From what I remember hearing, it’s more of an S&M dungeon than a closet. And there are plenty of skeletons in there

:lol: :lol::lol: Perfect Pony, you just made taking a peek at the last page of this undying thread worth it.

[Sandy_M]

[QUOTE=arbor hill;5383481]

[QUOTE=Sandy M;5383388]

Wow… That’s a bit harsh. Those courses set at the GM Horsemaster Session were definately technical and needed an advanced skill level to execute.

p.s. ‘maclay’: correct spelling for the equitation class you mentioned above.
Also, the ASPCA is the Maclay equitation class, as it’s sponsored by the
ASPCA…just to clarify.

---

I knew there had been differences made in the various Big Eq championships, but I couldn’t remember exactly what, nor the exact spellings. My bad. Still Crest Release - a stepping stone - now is accepted as CHAMPIONSHIP EQUITATION. GM’s fault. Yeah, he says, “That’s not what I meant!” but even he admits that it’s HIS fault it evolved that way: He (mighty GM!!!) didn’t say “No!” soon enough.

Whoever posted it - what I hadn’t noticec was knee rolls, etc. creeping back in. I also evented and had an old Passier with considerable knee rolls. I was told in a hunter eq class that I had been MARKED DOWN for using such a saddle. Okaaaaay. So I went and bought Crosby - can’t remember whether a Prix de Nations or whatever and rode in a flat as a pancake saddle. I didn’t ride any differently, but I placed higher.

And yes, one does see top riders doing a crest release, and I’m sure I, too, would be using one if I were jumping BIG fences. But I always tried to use an automatic release (especially when eventing!) and crest release was the emergency fallback. Now it’s championship riding. Whatever. I am now a former-H/J rider, former eventer…present DQ. But I put in my years/miles in H/J land and I am NOT impressed with the eq riders of the last 25 years or so. (I think it’s probably even been longer than THAT since I’ve seen a big-Eq winner with an automatic release).

[ivy62]

Getting back to the original topic, there are a lot of well know coaches in a lot of sports that are known for that type of behavior. They are sometimes banished but most are not. If you don’t like the way he teaches do not go to his clinics. I love listening to GM I always leave his clinics with a piece of info I didn’t have before.

[HRF_Second_Chance]

I don’t pay my instructor to kiss my rear. I pay her to tell me the truth and if I"m riding like a monkey humping a football then I want to be told that. I don’t need someone to hold my hand and go “now pookiedoodles, let’s try to not do that again for the 900th time or else saintly the pony might throw you on the ground”.

We’re just way in too much of a society where we’re painfully worried about offending someone in some way so we try to be politically correct to a ridiculous level.

[ivy62]

Check out this picture of Kathy Kusner… scroll down through the article. That BIG fence and a wonderful auto release. Imagine trying to do a crest release over that jump!

http://www.showjumpinghalloffame.net/inductees/k_kusner.shtml