If we want to see the auto release come back it has to start at the top not the bottom. Students will inspire to be like their heros. The heros have changed over the years so has the style. If GM were to get ALL the ULRs to do an auto release it would come back. If the ULRs cannot do one shame on them…
Also, no one said the auto was for a beginner, it is certainly not but there are enough riders out there that can do one that is for sure…
I think the hunters are really boring with the exception of the Derbies. Bring back the courses of old, real hunt jumps! and no counting strides. If the horse or pony is fluid and even that is what should count not how many strides…
JMHO
[QUOTE=ise@ssl;5390047]
Sorry ladies - I don’t agree. The crest release started when the riders failed to spend adequate time on FLAT WORK FLAT WORK FLATWORK. And when the HUNTER division turned into a “sissy league” where there couldn’t be any jump that was something you’d see in a hunt field!! If you have to hang on to the horse’s mouth - YOU DON’T KNOW HOW TO RIDE. So ergo - you should be put back on a lunge line or jump through a chute with NO REINS until you learn how to ride.
GM isn’t military style - don’t insult the military.[/QUOTE]
Some pretty outlandish statements made for sure. :lol:
First comment I get - you don’t agree…
Second comment applies to outlandish -
(the crest release started when riders failed to do flat work…)
How does this equate to George Morris?
And if you have ever watched a clinic he stresses flat work and the understanding of dressage.
Third comment also applies to outlandish -
(Calling the Hunter division sissy…)
So everyone that rides a Hunter is now a sissy? Hmm.
Fourth comment again applies to outlandish -
(hanging on a horses mouth…)
So everyone in the Hunters is hanging on their horses mouths?
Now I can say I do agree with you that if a rider is hanging on their horses mouth over the jumps they should go back for better and more training…
The irony of this - responsibility also falls on the trainers hands lets not forget. I see so many trainers that allow bad hands, bad seat, bad legs to where I feel bad for the horse - but I have NEVER seen GM allow this - after all, isn’t that what this thread is all about GM!
[QUOTE=ivy62;5390650]
If we want to see the auto release come back it has to start at the top not the bottom. Students will inspire to be like their heros. The heros have changed over the years so has the style. If GM were to get ALL the ULRs to do an auto release it would come back. If the ULRs cannot do one shame on them…
Also, no one said the auto was for a beginner, it is certainly not but there are enough riders out there that can do one that is for sure…
I think the hunters are really boring with the exception of the Derbies. Bring back the courses of old, real hunt jumps! and no counting strides. If the horse or pony is fluid and even that is what should count not how many strides…
JMHO[/QUOTE]
He isn’t a riding teacher for the elite riders. He is the chef d’equipe. And I have no doubt that our Olympians are perfectly capable of using, and know how to use, a following hand. If they choose not to, I am also sure they have their reasons.
[QUOTE=lauriep;5390798]
He isn’t a riding teacher for the elite riders. He is the chef d’equipe. And I have no doubt that our Olympians are perfectly capable of using, and know how to use, a following hand. If they choose not to, I am also sure they have their reasons.[/QUOTE]
At a clinic I attended GM used a young man as a great example of a auto release. Praised him for it. Later with the Eq riders he had them “use” an auto release. He did get frustrated with one gal that couldn’t get it. They were jumping 4 to 4ft 6". So they were far from begining riders.
I am trying to let this thread die a slow death, I do need to speak on the point of the crest release.
I went to the first GM clinic ever held in CA, it was organized by a woman named Jan Smith who’s daughter Julie was among the first of the west coast riders to get a prize at medals finals.
I am giving the historical background BECAUSE that was 35 years ago.
George taught the first crest release I had EVER seen, in fact that is why it resonates in my memory. We grew up with some pretty talented trainers and riders and no one was using that release from the first time over a cross rail .
I think that it did become a trend stylistically. I can honestly say that it was a shift to “learn the new cool release” thereby identifying riders who were training with some prestigous barns.
I mentioned to George years later that because of his influence the crest release became wildly popular and he shrugged off that it was supposed to be a beginning step for a novice rider… however I invite some of you brilliant techies to dig up win pictures from the eq ranks from pre-1975 and compare to the more photos of the winners in the 80’s and 90’s.
I personally love the old man beyond words, will miss him and his generation of horseman when he is gone and confirm that he has dedicated his life to the american system.
He is not perfect but I don’t know how any one person will ever make the kind of impact on our sport as he has so I forgive the one backward step.
[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5390815]
I am trying to let this thread die a slow death, I do need to speak on the point of the crest release…
He is not perfect but I don’t know how any one person will ever make the kind of impact on our sport as he has so I forgive the one backward step.[/QUOTE]
Me too but now were talking crest release…:lol:
I really don’t think it was a backward step from GM - he even stated it’s a novice way to do things. I actually thank him for saving a few horses mouths. After all - it’s about the horse and that’s it!
If the trainers are too narrow-minded to get the entire system and leave their riders at a crest release then that’s their fault. I know GM pushes a system and the crest release (how it’s not a bad thing) is just a BEGINNING PART of it.
But he far from created it. :lol:
When I was at WEG I began to think that the crest release was an American thing. Watching the jumpers a lot them used the automatic release, the foreign ones anyway… As a chef d’equipe, he can certainly put it back in at the top levels starting with our team that will NOT be in the olympics. Function follows form and we have lost it. I leave it to the masters to put it back in.
The trainer I hope my daughyer will ride with when she gets older will teach the automatic release, so I expect my DD to learn it when the time comes. He has a very independent hand even as a youngster. She has been taught to ride with no hands and bareback…Thank g-d for her trainer…the only thing is, she wants to event!
Please. Do a google images search for some of the top names (Ludger Beerbaum, Marcus Ehning, Rodrigo Pessoa, Michael Whitaker, Pius Schwizer, Jessica Kurten, Gerco Schroder, Jos Lansink, etc) and you see crest release after crest release after crest release.
There is nothing wrong with the crest release.
Wanderluster: You may have learned of the crest release from GM, but he didn’t create it…he only taught it. It was taught well before him. Lord knows the west coast is years behind the east coast, but it’s there IN PRINT at least 60 years ago.
Doubless you are off the path and getting in the weeds. In fact the fricken thread has been in the weeds since it’s sad creation. I’m afraid that many do not have any perspective of riding styles as they have evolved. No matter , no one here is willing to accept that things become fashionable ( except clothing ) and then evolve to something different.
I am stating emphatically that there was a singular release taught , sometimes a jumping strap was on the neck to spare the poor pony’s mouth. Gordon Wright talks about elementary jumping, then intermediate where the crest release is also used, then a shift to the auto release in advanced jumping.
My german teachers didn’t seem to recognize the stages and taught us to have a following hand, of course they beat us with whips if we messed up. HA ! :lol:
Rug Bug, I collect riding manuscripts so I have an early edition of Gordon Wrights book, you are right, as I stated that a step by step was outlined to master the auto release.
The big style change shift emerged after some influential people began popularizing that release and if you go look up archived photos it will 100 % substantiate my statements.
Why would I need to go look up photos? I know the auto release was the only “release” for many, many years. The crest release was not considered a release but rather a step to learning. As the years progressed, people have recognized the value of the crest release and embraced it. The modern rider that desires to be the best they can be will want to learn the auto. The rider that isn’t quite as motivated? Well, the crest release is a mighty good release for them to use.
BTW…I haven’t been referring to Gordon Wright, but rather Vladimir Littauer. 
Great message, I referred to Gordon Wright because he trained George and is his mentor.
[QUOTE=RugBug;5390875]
Please. Do a google images search for some of the top names (Ludger Beerbaum, Marcus Ehning, Rodrigo Pessoa, Michael Whitaker, Pius Schwizer, Jessica Kurten, Gerco Schroder, Jos Lansink, etc) and you see crest release after crest release after crest release.
There is nothing wrong with the crest release.
Wanderluster: You may have learned of the crest release from GM, but he didn’t create it…he only taught it. It was taught well before him. Lord knows the west coast is years behind the east coast, but it’s there IN PRINT at least 60 years ago.[/QUOTE]
Wait wait! Didn’t I say that? :lol:
[QUOTE=Wanderluster;5390902]
Doubless you are off the path and getting in the weeds. [/QUOTE]
Gawd - I - I - I caaannnnt get myyy horsssseesss heeaaddd UP!!!
(he likes weeds):winkgrin:
Since it is Sunday AM, I will tell it like it is. I worship at the church of Horsemanship, and y’all are invoking the names of the gods - Littauer, Wright, DeNemathy, Morris, and don’t forget Caprilli. GM remains in that pantheon for the very thing doubless quoted and my favorite quote- “it’s about the horse and that’s it!” I have NEVER seen this man advocate ANYTHING but actions/behaviours that are " about the horse", to help it perform better or save it’s mouth ( crest release) or other painful interventions that we as riders can visit upon them. If he calls a rider a " dumbell" - it sure isn’t gonna hurt the horse in anyway, but maybe it will move the rider to do the right thing. Abuse isn’t just beating a horse y’kno.When the horse no longer comes first, let me know how bad he is then.
While GM may, IMO, do a lot of things that could be deemed questionable and rude, he makes no secret of being strict and very to the point! I have ridden with several trainers who have been verbally curt (and often edged on being downright mean), but those trainers consistently get good results for both horse and rider. If they do not produce, you (and the rest of the riding community) can simply choose not to participate. Easy. I personally would not stand being insulted and ridiculed by a person whose knowledge could not bring out the best in me and my horse. I feel that most rude statements seem to be generally born out of frustration on the part of the clinician. If someone came to you and paid good money for you to teach them and then proceeded to not accept the advise nor to execute the commands, then that puts ones professional reputation on the line. To have those people walk away and say “well I didn’t get much out of that clinic” can really tarnish the reputation of any instructor. Sometimes, some people need to be figuratively beaten over the head in order to put out a little effort! That being said, it does not make verbal assaults warranted or necessary. But with GM, there is no doubt that it may happen. Your choice. If only it were a perfect world…
[QUOTE=Running Fox Farm;5391436]
Since it is Sunday AM, I will tell it like it is. I worship at the church of Horsemanship, and y’all are invoking the names of the gods - Littauer, Wright, DeNemathy, Morris, and don’t forget Caprilli. GM remains in that pantheon for the very thing doubless quoted and my favorite quote- “it’s about the horse and that’s it!” I have NEVER seen this man advocate ANYTHING but actions/behaviours that are " about the horse", to help it perform better or save it’s mouth ( crest release) or other painful interventions that we as riders can visit upon them. If he calls a rider a " dumbell" - it sure isn’t gonna hurt the horse in anyway, but maybe it will move the rider to do the right thing. Abuse isn’t just beating a horse y’kno.When the horse no longer comes first, let me know how bad he is then.[/QUOTE]
Love this post!
[QUOTE=Mara;5337577]
It’s not George’s job to stroke their self-esteem and promote their self-worth. He’s there to help them improve their riding.
His teaching style isn’t for everyone. I couldn’t handle it. But at this point, it’s hardly a secret that he can be harsh and direct with the criticisms. I am sure all those riders had a pretty good idea of what they might expect.[/QUOTE]
as a teacher/trainer his job is indeed to enhance self-esteem through his training skills. a team trainer that nailed everyone and left the team in the dumps wouldn’t be considered a good trainer. teaching with a positive outcome has always trumped negative teaching. it’s back to the basic: don’t strike out v go hit a home run. you help them improve their riding through positive self worth. not rocket science-just basic training techniques.
Where is the vomit emoticon. Blech.
My solution to my dislike of GM’s style is to simply not ride with him. It’s a free country you are free to choose who you train with or clinic with. If his style isn’t for you or your kids… then find someone who has the right method for you period.
At this point in GM’s career, he isn’t going to change… nor should he… his methods do work for some… for many for that matter. Meredith Michaels Beerbaum was a student of GM’s… apparently it DOES WORK.
If you can’t take his harshness there are plenty of trainers who will feed you what you want to hear, but it may not always be the thing you need to hear. ( myself don’t like to be yelled at, but sometimes I NEED to be yelled at for my own good).
Ok that’s my two cents on this matter.
If you are sentitive about your weight or self esteem, don’t send him pictures and don’t ride with him. Enough Said!!
:winkgrin:
[QUOTE=culture shock;5393311]
as a teacher/trainer his job is indeed to enhance self-esteem through his training skills. a team trainer that nailed everyone and left the team in the dumps wouldn’t be considered a good trainer. teaching with a positive outcome has always trumped negative teaching. it’s back to the basic: don’t strike out v go hit a home run. you help them improve their riding through positive self worth. not rocket science-just basic training techniques.[/QUOTE]
Oh, bull-pucky. Teaching self-esteem is a parent’s job.
George Morris calling me names wouldn’t “leave me in the dumps.” But, I guess, that’s just me. My self-esteem is not tied up in what people call me.
As others have mentioned ad nauseum on this thread, if having George call you names is going to hurt your widdle feelins’, then don’t ride with him.
