Good brained horse bolting EDIT - XRAYS ADDED PG 2

[PNWjumper]

Why’d you inject his stifles?

I had a gelding who started doing that out of the blue (and had a super good, reasonable, calm brain), and the answer was locking stifles. His stifle would lock and it would totally freak him out and he would bolt. Totally different reaction, however, than a “naughty bolt.” It was short-lived…5 or 6 strides at most and then back to normal.

Finally figured it out one day watching a video of him jumping where he knocked down a crossrail (totally unlike him), and you could see the stifle lock before the fence, he landed and let loose a massive buck and then cantered away. My vet said, “yep, sometimes the only way for a horse to unlock a stifle is to buck.” That was the only time I ever noticed it happening over a jump (and the only time he reacted with a buck), but it was clear as day on video. Normally it was while we were cantering and he would “scoot” away as though a bee had just stung him or something. Had my vet and bodyworker fix his pelvis and the behavior disappeared.

So my vote is something “pinching” or hurting or getting stuck. I might start by looking at stifles and then go from there.

[hb]

@Torre

Thanks for the replies so far. Would it be possible for the KS to be an issue even when he isn’t sore over the area? The vet was pushing pretty hard on either side of the spine and got no reaction.

Pushing on a horse’s back while they are standing is not the same as the horse carrying weight while moving and jumping.

[Lord_Helpus]

How much of a neuro exam has he had? (did you tell us?) It is easy enough to try one to see if there is something big going on. If it is big, you will see it and can call the vet. If it might/might not be there, you can call the vet. If you think he is 100% OK, you should probably call the vet anyway.

The easy stuff:
Back him up on the flat (barn aisle). Does he know where his hind legs are? Can he back up appropriately, without swaying?
Tail Pull: One person at the head walks him forward, the second person takes the tail and tries to pull him sideways. How much resistance is there?
Crossover: Put 1 foot on top of the other. Does he immediately put it back where it was?
Circle: on a very small circle look at his hind legs. Does his outer hind leg cross over his inside hind leg?
Proprioception: Walk up and down a little slope with his head held high so he cannot see where he is going. Do his feet land appropriately? (Does he know where his feet are in relationship to the ground?)

Those are ‘fun’ tests to do and often can convince an owner that their horse is totally neurological and should be put down immediately before he injures someone.

[Bristol_Bay]

I have had my horse’s back injected a few times. (He has KS.) The difference was night and day. It’s not as expensive as hock injections. Might be worth it to try, even if your vet thinks the KS is of no concern.

I haven’t needed to get him injected in the last two years, mainly because I have a better fitting saddle, and because we do more dressage so he’s stretching over his back more. Another thing is my vet recommended he trot 5-10 minutes before riding. That means a short daily longe. It’s all working great.

Whether or or not you’re concerned about the KS, you can still take steps to mitigate it as I have done. It’s nothing that isn’t plain good horsemanship.

[beowulf]

@Torre

Haven’t done stifles yet, although that was next on the vet’s list. I wish I wasn’t blindly injecting, but here I am.
PS: Here are her back xrays, which I have been told are “no concern” because she doesn’t palpate sore over the area. Any opinions or reads on these? Hates everything put on her back.

@Lord Helpus Yep! Neuro exam done and clear!

There is remodeling on several of those processes… so while the horse does not palpitate sore over them, that is not a reliable way to rule out whether the horse is affected by KS.

FWIW, my gelding had similar rads, did not palpitate, but definitely has KS. Injections & mesotherapy and he was a different horse.

You can’t gauage severity of KS by palpitation, though. That’s a common misconception. Most times, the KS actually causes major soreness in other areas - as those areas are working overtime and compensating for the KS. Usual areas include over the loins, SI, stifle, hocks and suspensory.

It’s worth it also to really make sure the saddle fits. Sometimes they fit on paper but still cause pain to the horse. So the right saddle plus the right riding regime plus the right maintenance really helps.

Management plays a huge role with KS too.

My gelding above: - 24/7 turnout, injected & mesotherapy once a year, really staying on top of saddle fit, devil’s claw/yucca (does not compete) supplement, and when he is in work always start with a long warm up. I hand walk 2 minutes, hand jog two minutes, before I ever get on.

It has all made a huge difference for him.

[LilyandBaron]

Lots of good advice already. My guy had seasonal issues in fall/winter, got worse/more frequent over time. Mainly looked like ulcers, but got really spooky and hyper esthetic one year. Did bloodwork - low vitamin E and acute Lyme. Treated both, but he’s still strange. Thought we were returning to work when we had terrifying bolt, and big thing for me - no signs in handling prior to ride indicated sensitivity. I’m also very experienced with green/weird, but horse is now 18, and I’m in my 40s and have two other lovely horses. If money were no object, maybe I’d continue down the rabbit hole, but after almost two years of $$$ and time with vet and integrated med approaches, he’s retired. All that to say, with pain, I think list is saddle fit, joint/skeletal stuff, ulcers, neuro, etc., as others and you have considered, but also bloodwork for things like Lyme and any deficiencies. Good luck!

[PalmPony]

What about lunging over the fence? Does the bolt still happen? Maybe take some video while lunging over the jump to analyze if theres anything going on/odd or uneven movement you might not be feeling while riding

[Elouise]

Time for a bute test. 2 bute a day for 5 days…then maybe 1 for two more days. Is he better, worse or the same? I hate to suggest that with his ulcer history…might want to throw in some UG during your bute test.

What does your vet say about your horse’s suspensories?

Figuring out what is bothering a horse is like peeling an onion. One layer at a time and it sure does stink and sting your eyes in the process.

[IPEsq]

I definitely wouldn’t write off the KS based on palpation alone.

Sure, some do palpate sore over the area. A lot don’t. Some have terrible X-rays and do fine. Some have pretty mild X-rays (know a couple where they are just “close”, not actually touching), and it’s a major problem for that horse.

There was a video video being passed around my barn lately …search “top line syndrome” on YouTube. Basically, KS can cause local problems, referred problems, or compensatory problems along the spine, with SI area pain being common. Sometimes progressing to lameness in a limb too.

The bolting behavior would not be an unusual response to this issue. I would pursue treatment there first, and come up with a rehab program that includes unmounted conditioning as well.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

Xrays not worst I’ve seen. I would get an opinion from a very good sport vet. I will say that I’ve done the surgery on one horse with mild KS. If your horse is s good candidate (and that is the issue) it was not an invasive surgery and not very expensive. I would do it again in the right circumstances. Shockwave is also very effective. But I wouldn’t be jumping to worst case just yet. What you described really didn’t sound like true bolt. No way would you be able to turn let alone do a small circle on a true bolt. But it does sound like either something hurts or something happened. My vote would be neck or teeth. Most other weird things…like hip arthritis…had more bucking and rearing not bolting as the reaction.

[JBCool]

Torre & Bristol Bay, would you guys mind PM-ing me with about what your back X-rays and injections cost? I’m potentially looking at having to explore this route with my horse (yay!) and was just curious about cost. Ballpark # is fine. Thank you!

[Bristol_Bay]

@JBCool

Torre & Bristol Bay, would you guys mind PM-ing me with about what your back X-rays and injections cost? I’m potentially looking at having to explore this route with my horse (yay!) and was just curious about cost. Ballpark # is fine. Thank you!

About $600 total for exams, X-rays, injections.

[ace]

KS and stifles have already been mentioned and it sounds like you are looking into that.

Aside from the vet work, has he had any bodywork done on him by a good chiro/massage therapist since he started his retraining 6 months ago? How much letdown time did he have after racing, before his retraining started? It sounds like he raced for a long time, so he very likely has some body soreness and tight muscles that he might need help with.

It also may be that he is mentally and/or physically overwhelmed and you need to take a step back. I’ve had a couple of “war horse” types and although some things are easier with them than say, a 3 or 4 year old OTTB with minimal starts (e.g not spooky, good to trailer, used to having a job, workmanlike attitude), I would say based on my limited experience it takes W-A-A-A-Y longer for them to develop the new muscling they need to be a sport horse. That’s a lot of years of racing muscles to undo and rebuild. Sometimes mentally too, start out great and then hit a wall, because the new job is just so, so different from what they have been doing for a long time.

They are all individuals of course, but as an example, my last war horse project had 4 months of turnout and easy groundwork before i started riding, and then 4 months of walk/trot only before we introduced cantering on a straight line and poles. He had monthly chiro/massage throughout that time to help deal with soreness and general tightness all over, especially in the hindquarters, ribcage and SI.

Having said all that, from your OP it really does sound like discomfort.

[punchy]

So… you’ve had one scary bad ride on this horse in the 6 months since you’ve been retraining him, and based on that you’re considering blindly injecting stifles after already having injected hocks and SI a few weeks ago, and you’re also worried about KS and you’re treating for ulcers?

Either this horse has had many problems since you’ve had him which are not in your post, or you are overreacting to one bad ride. If you’ve just had one bad ride, I would say you need more info on what he’s doing to figure out why, and the only way to get that info is to continue to ride. Take videos so you can see what he is doing. Get someone to watch and help, if you’re doing it by yourself. If you are worried about him bolting again and don’t want to risk it, find a trainer. Try different saddles. You need more to go on than one bad day with a green horse over some fences.

If he’s had other problems in the past, you need to have a frank talk with your vet about what the apparent plan is as far as injecting joints in your horse and what you hope to accomplish.

[LSceats]

Would strongly agree with punchy. One bolt, in the winter, on a green horse, does not necessarily necessitate a $5000 vet work up. Habitually, sure. But people, and horses, sometimes have bad days. They are flight animals - racehorses especially. Sounds like you did a good thing finishing quietly. Get professional help early if it made you nervous, to nip things to the bud.

I have one who did this A LOT as a young horse. When nervous, he just wanted to get out of there. Still does it occasionally when he’s fresh but it has gotten much, much better with experience thanks to many professional’s help.

[Ridergirl99]

A ton of good advice here. The weather has been horrible this winter. Could just be the cold. I had a TB that when you jumped, you could not touch his mouth or he would bolt and/or play. TBs think when you touch their mouth they should GO. I think having someone video you is a great idea and if watched in slow motion can give you some insight into why he is doing this. Also, I would think about changing his diet to less sugar. Maybe try beet pulp without molasses, legends gastrotech and legends carbcare. Horses that have happy tummies make for better mounts. I had a horse that was a totally different animal when he was on UG. I also kept him on sulcrulfate also. You have to feed these supplements 12 hours apart and not together as they bind together and won’t do their job. Sucrulfate is cheap and it gives instant relief while UG treats the ulcers. Hind gut ulcers are a different issue. Are you padding your saddle well enough when jumping? I would play with a couple of different things before I would do a 5k work up on the horse especially if its been only a couple of times.

[BeeHoney]

I disagree with the sentiment that it was “just one bad ride.” I have ridden and retrained racehorses for many years, and never had one bolt with me. I guess it really depends on how you are defining bolt. I have had plenty of ex-racehorses get strong and reactive and test the limits of my control, or have a nasty spook that resulted in a few sketchy (possibly speedy), out of control moments–that to me qualifies as “just a bad day.” But that is totally different than a panicked, totally out of control bolt (that comes out of nowhere on a calm day) where a horse is blocking out input from the rider.

[merrygoround]

I am absolutely amazed at the number of posters here who are entirely comfortable posting their opinion of the posted radiographs,

The OP obviously has no need of a radiologist, or a neurologist.

She should have saved her money.

[bornfreenowexpensive]

@merrygoround

I am absolutely amazed at the number of posters here who are entirely comfortable posting their opinion of the posted radiographs,

The OP obviously has no need of a radiologist, or a neurologist.

She should have saved her money.

I didn’t a see a single post “diagnose” the X-rays. I said they are not the worst that I’ve seen…which is true…Ive seen some seriously bad KS xrays. I didn’t say there is no issue or there is an issue. No idea…it really depends on the horse. I said talk to a good sport horse vet. I hire good vets and follow their advice. But it doesn’t hurt the OP to ask for other people’s experience…and at least can give them the feeling that they are not the only person to have similar experiences.

But it without seeing the horse… none of the opinions on this thread (including my own) are really worth anything more than to give the OP things to think about and questions to ask. Including looking at exactly what she was asking of this horse and how she defines a bolt (true bolts…you cannot turn…this was a strong forward reaction different from what the OP was used too but how unusual is hard to tell just by an on line description)