Good Guinness Missing

[DMK]

@copper1;3952296

What I think is really sad about all this is that BNT don’t have the time to check out each horse that comes to their barn enough to be able to identify and recognize issues like teeth and brands, or call and confirm things with the owner. Makes SNT seem a far better bet!

That’s a pretty broad paint brush you got there. I know plenty of “SNTs” who stay SNT because, well, they suck at horsemanship. And plenty of BNTs who are damned good at their jobs and responsible horseman (and women). And plenty of the vice versa kind.

But yes, I agree with Midge. Assuming an honest mistake, I sure hope all the parties who were supposed to have had the real GG were actively trying to figure out why a former GP horse was all of a sudden unspecial at best in the children’s.

If I was a potential future client of any of the parties, I think I would be doing my homework just to make sure my sale horse wasn’t just allowed to show at the lower levels without so much as a serious discussion into what had caused the change. Not saying they didn’t do that - they may have had a dozen conversations about it trying to figure it out and just not noticing the ONE thing that was wrong was that it wasn’t the right horse. Just saying I’d like a little validation that if I was a client, and my horse wasn’t performing as expected, we’d be on top of it faster than this.

[Roulett]

The tale of a missing horse

http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/lost-and-found-the-saga-of-good-guinness-and-the-impostor/

Sounds like a good script for Law & Order but no mention of Coth in this story
or the fact that thousands of email blasts were sent around (all points) and
within 48 hours of the thread appearing on COTH, GG gets ID’d as Kanye!

That said, tomorrow is St. Patrick’s Day and time to say Good Guinness!

[galwaybay]

[QUOTE=Roulett;3952410]
http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/lost-and-found-the-saga-of-good-guinness-and-the-impostor/

That said, tomorrow is St. Patrick’s Day and time to say Good Guinness![/QUOTE]

Touchee’ - a good friend of mine is the fellow who originally owned GG in Ireland and sold him some folks in USA…

[vxf111]

I am thinking twice about large commercial shippers! Sloppier than I would have possibly imagined!

[lonewolf]

Wow, what a screw up.

I agree that, on the surface, this sounds really fishy and almost unbelievable. It’s hard to believe that nobody would have noticed something like this going on. And some of the stories seem a little incomplete.

However, nobody really profited from the switch. The Wards probably got a bit higher lease fee than they might have from Con Air, but not enough to make it worth engaging in a risky scheme for. They would have to be morons to think it would work, and I’m pretty sure they’re not. And nobody on either of the other ends had a chance to get much out of it either.

For what it’s worth, I’ve watched GG compete in the Grand Prixs over the years with Patrick Seaton. I literally cannot remember him going around with less than 2 or 3 rails (often more). So it isn’t as if this horse was an absolute world beater for much of his career (I haven’t seen him go for a year or so). So the fact that he wasn’t performing at the top levels right away really shouldn’t have set off a million alarm bells, although Children’s seems like a pretty big step down.

My old trainer used to import horses from Germany really regularly. The horses that arrived often looked a lot different than they did on the video. Once we got them going, it sometimes turned out that horses that were supposed to be big jumpers really weren’t competitive past 3’6. Sometimes the horses advertised as easy rides were really nutcases.

I do think that both the horse’s owners/trainers in the west and the Maddens are guilty of carelessness. There are some glaring differences between the two horses which really should have come up if either side was bothering to keep the other informed. I am guessing that everyone was just too busy to put much thought into it.

Lesson learned.

P.S. I actually think that it might not have been a bad idea to leave the horse with his lessor. He seemed to be doing really well with her!

[Janet]

@vxf111;3952433

I am thinking twice about large commercial shippers! Sloppier than I would have possibly imagined!

WAS this a “large commercial shipper”?

[Dun_Ciarain]

[QUOTE=lonewolf;3952459]
For what it’s worth, I’ve watched GG compete in the Grand Prixs over the years with Patrick Seaton. I literally cannot remember him going around with less than 2 or 3 rails (often more). So it isn’t as if this horse was an absolute world beater for much of his career (I haven’t seen him go for a year or so).[/QUOTE]

Exactly.

With the exception of the first two summer shows at Woodside (when everyone was at Spruce Meadows), it was pretty much the same story last year.

[equinelaw]

[QUOTE=Roulett;3952410]
http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/lost-and-found-the-saga-of-good-guinness-and-the-impostor/

Sounds like a good script for Law & Order but no mention of Coth in this story
or the fact that thousands of email blasts were sent around (all points) and
within 48 hours of the thread appearing on COTH, GG gets ID’d as Kanye!

That said, tomorrow is St. Patrick’s Day and time to say Good Guinness![/QUOTE]

From this article. Why is it so hard to tell black from brown. Even they did it and they had the flyer saying BLACK right there!

In September Good Guinness, a 17.2 hand dark brown gelding with a star, was placed on a trailer in California bound for New York by trainer Patrick Seaton. A black gelding with a star was subsequently delivered to Frank Madden’s barn on Long Island, NY where the horse was shown to prospective buyers.

No! Rudolph is brown and GG is black!:o

[lonewolf]

Technically, almost all “black” horses are in fact dark brown.

To be called “black” a horse isn’t supposed to have any brown hairs on it at all (I think).

[Dun_Ciarain]

[QUOTE=equinelaw;3952781]
From this article. Why is it so hard to tell black from brown. Even they did it and they had the flyer saying BLACK right there!

In September Good Guinness, a 17.2 hand dark brown gelding with a star, was placed on a trailer in California bound for New York by trainer Patrick Seaton. A black gelding with a star was subsequently delivered to Frank Madden’s barn on Long Island, NY where the horse was shown to prospective buyers.

No! Rudolph is brown and GG is black!:o[/QUOTE]

I just saw the video referenced in this article for the first time. I can tell exactly where it was shot from. The person must have been sitting right next to me. :lol::lol::lol:

[JulieMontgomery]

Bless your heart darlin’ …

Apparently you are not aware of the COTH bb rule that says “if the owl says move on, then by God you’d damn well better MOVE ON!” :lol: :lol: :lol:

Owl = the one who sees all and, of course, always KNOWS all …

[QUOTE=Mardi;3950834]
Oh geez, here come the high horses.

If you think the story is over, why are you reading the thread ?[/QUOTE]

[Bogie]

Well, there sure was a lot more detail both here and on horse show spy . . . however, I decided to stick with the articles that were actually published as official sources ;).

The conspiracy theories are quite interesting, for sure. As someone who grew up riding in the Brewster NY area, many scenarios crossed my mind.

@Roulett;3952410

http://equineink.wordpress.com/2009/03/13/lost-and-found-the-saga-of-good-guinness-and-the-impostor/

Sounds like a good script for Law & Order but no mention of Coth in this story
or the fact that thousands of email blasts were sent around (all points) and
within 48 hours of the thread appearing on COTH, GG gets ID’d as Kanye!

That said, tomorrow is St. Patrick’s Day and time to say Good Guinness!

[equinelaw]

[QUOTE=lonewolf;3952796]
Technically, almost all “black” horses are in fact dark brown.

To be called “black” a horse isn’t supposed to have any brown hairs on it at all (I think).[/QUOTE]

Granted, but what do you call a horse with a bright chestnut nose? Like my dear dear Impostor horse Rudolph:)

Ironically, that article just accidentally switched the colors. WE know that had no nefarious purpose, so when you do not take the time to see black or brown or read black or brown I guess its no wonder horses get accidentally switched.

[Mardi]

@Midge;3951921

According to the original post, there had been some back and forth about the horse’s lack of ability, so why didn’t Patrick

a) call Ari the Agent, who was at WEF and say, ‘Hey, Ari, go take a peek at my horse. They say he’s become a children’s jumper.’

The agent’s name was/is “Ali”. It’s been asked on this thread if it was Ali Nilforushian from San Diego (where the horse left from) but that has yet to be confirmed or denied.

[lonewolf]

Mardi – Although I’m not personally involved, I heard that it IS Ali Nilforushan. He has shifted much of his operation to Florida, and I know he shows there all winter.

Ali would have seen and competed against Good Guinness in Cali for many years and known him well, which begs the question of why he didn’t spot the switch.

I read somewhere that Ali was busy and never actually got around to watching the imposter show.

[silver2]

The horse being dropped down doesn’t strike me as a huge red flag if it was with a potential buyer in the irons. There are tons of horses with the ability to do small GPs being ridden by people who will never jump over 3’3". When I catch rode as a junior I’d show a lot of horses in the high Juniors that would be dropped down when they went to a younger or less experienced rider. Many of them never made it back up the ranks (one was a freakin’ Olympic SJ candidate, who ended up a dressage horse because the kid who bought him was such an incredibly bad rider she just stopped jumping altogether).

If you get the money you want for the horse you don’t care if the buyer just pets it on the nose every day for the rest of it’s life.

[Foxtrot_s]

Now I am nervous - if I send a horse to Europe, how could I identify it so it does not get switched in Amsterdam and sent to Kazakstan or somewhere. Hey - just thought - could stencil her name on her rump with Lady Clairol??

[copper1]

[QUOTE=DMK;3952375]
That’s a pretty broad paint brush you got there. I know plenty of “SNTs” who stay SNT because, well, they suck at horsemanship. And plenty of BNTs who are damned good at their jobs and responsible horseman (and women). And plenty of the vice versa kind.

Yes, I was using a “broad brush” and perhaps I should have said “some” BNT/SNT but my point is that if a BNT is getting too big to be fully aware of what is coming and going in his /her barn then perhaps they are too big.

[2bayboys]

For what it’s worth, on Horse Show Spy Patrick Seaton’s friend Kristin said this:

Regardless of anyones past no one is deliberately at fault in this case. Ali is only gulity of being extremely busy and even though he was on the same grounds as the ‘wrong’ Guinness for 8 weeks he never saw him and even if he had, the same resoluiton would have come about , albeit 2 months sooner. With over 50 horses at WEF Ali never had any free time to watch the 'wrong’Guinness show, so the mistake was not seen sooner.

It’s funny that he didn’t have any time to look at the horse but I bet he would have had plenty of time to cash his big fat commission check if the horse had sold. :yes:

And from another poster on HSS:

Well… I received a private message that Kristin is scared for her family, farm, horses and herself.

I think that just shows the true colors of those involved in the “mess”…and I don’t think Kristin should have to be dealing with that.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=Janet;3952473]
WAS this a “large commercial shipper”?[/QUOTE]

I got the impression it was. Was it not?