US trainer Tom Chown is writing some good commentary these days on horse show Western Pleasure that can make sense to most riders. Mostly appreciated in other countries, unfortunately.
I had to laugh when I read his description of a “bad” lope:
Without the back and ribs working together, we end up with something that resembles two men in a horse suit – broken, painful and, at times, even comical to watch.
Thanks for the link.
very cool! Thank you Plumcreek! 
Well done. Thank you.
He uses great images.
“In today’s western pleasure it is a sad fact that many horses are trained and shown with little regard for natural movement. They are forced to move uncomfortably causing them to appear laboured or lame. While we do have a number of great horse trainers that are doing an excellent job, and some amazing horses that look comfortable and happy doing theirs, there are many more that don’t.”
and
“Unfortunately, many of the trainers today are showing their horses in an unnatural manner, distorting the first part of the lope…”
How is that when those of us who have mentioned these exact observation about WP are met with complete denial and objections from WP enthusiast who simply tells us we just don’t understand, because we are just not educated enough?
Unfortunately, even this article falls short of any real valuable insights to change anything.
The photo he uses of The Good Ranger as an example of a “good lope” shows how over several decades what people have trained themselves to see as “good” is nowhere near a usable and functional form.
I would go on to say that his analysis of the biomechanics is more of the same hogwash that effects the dressage world as well.
This idea that a horse lowering his head raises his back is hog wash, and has been discredited by many. Look up Science of Motion for one. Although it is a tedious read.
I am surrounded by western pleasure trainers, I see dozens of these horses every day, and have witnessed the training and riding. I hear the long convoluted discussion as if they were scientific geniuses discussing the correct formula for creating the perfect horse and movement. They talk as if they are producing some superior example of movement, when what they have actually done is take the natural freedom of movement and actions of the horse and reduced everything to slow, dull, lifeless, heavy and miserable looking parody of pleasure. Not to mention breeding them that way. And lame most of the time as well.
It is a completely fabricated form of horsemanship, and as far as I am concerned not much different and about as useless as the big lick horses, where the only place it functions at all is in a show pen.
[QUOTE=Wirt;8036988]
“In today’s western pleasure it is a sad fact that many horses are trained and shown with little regard for natural movement. They are forced to move uncomfortably causing them to appear laboured or lame. While we do have a number of great horse trainers that are doing an excellent job, and some amazing horses that look comfortable and happy doing theirs, there are many more that don’t.”
and
“Unfortunately, many of the trainers today are showing their horses in an unnatural manner, distorting the first part of the lope…”
How is that when those of us who have mentioned these exact observation about WP are met with complete denial and objections from WP enthusiast who simply tells us we just don’t understand, because we are just not educated enough?[/QUOTE]
Because you aren’t.
[QUOTE=potteryshop;8036894]
Well done. Thank you.
He uses great images.[/QUOTE]
Yabbut, the phases of the canter in the “bad” and “good” are different. To be accurate, he would have had to have picked the same one for both.
I suppose I should be glad to see someone in WP world explaining horse biomechanics. But I’m surprised to see that this stuff is news. I think dressage riders are taught about lifting ribs and creating an “uphill” horse from just about day one of their instruction.
I didn’t know that WP trainers were training horses to leave the outside hock behind them at the lope so as to create the appearance of the “big hock spilt”-- which really should have represented a horse reaching farther under himself (with the inside leg, no less) at the lope.
Oh, and the advice “If you want a horse with correct, deep hock movement… buy that one (instead of all this artificial training crap)” Yeah, and the price of that horse is higher, hence the bad work-arounds so many choose. Coming from HunterWorld where the “Just buy the better horse” means helluvallotta money, I’m not a fan of his easy solution here.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8037295]
Because you aren’t.[/QUOTE]
We aren’t what?
[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;8037739]
We aren’t what?[/QUOTE]
Worthy. It’s the default response used for “you just don’t get it”. WP people often say that people who have problems with WP but don’t ride it aren’t qualified to criticize…as if somehow WP horses operate by different biomechanical rules compared to other horses.
Hmm… thought provoking article, thanks for sharing.
My first thought is that, while this might be true for many horses, it isn’t true for all, and ought not be treated as such.
The 6 year old mare I’ve been training for just over a year moves naturally with her head low and a slow, collected, ambling gait. I never trained her to do it; it’s how she moves. I sit deep and tap with my calves, leaving a slack rein, and she slows, collects, drops her head. No force, no intimidation. No former WP training either; her current owner has owned her since she was foaled and all she knew prior to my training was simply moving forward, left, and right - and her owner likes speed, so WP training would be the last thing she’d do intentionally. But this horse is simply wired differently from her “hot rods.” With that advantage, we, of course, enter WP classes when we go to shows that have them. However, she’s primarily a reining horse (and moves out nicely for that!), then horsemanship, and WP is really just for fun.
I’d be quite annoyed if someone began chastising that mare’s natural way of going, claiming that I’m forcing her to move that way or utilizing unkind training techniques.
While I do agree with this article if aimed at those who force horses into a frame unnatural for them, it’s important to avoid automatically “shaming,” for lack of a better term, trainers of horses who naturally move a certain way.
[QUOTE=RopeRideSpinSlide;8038280]
Hmm… thought provoking article, thanks for sharing.
My first thought is that, while this might be true for many horses, it isn’t true for all, and ought not be treated as such.
The 6 year old mare I’ve been training for just over a year moves naturally with her head low and a slow, collected, ambling gait. I never trained her to do it; it’s how she moves. I sit deep and tap with my calves, leaving a slack rein, and she slows, collects, drops her head. No force, no intimidation. No former WP training either; her current owner has owned her since she was foaled and all she knew prior to my training was simply moving forward, left, and right - and her owner likes speed, so WP training would be the last thing she’d do intentionally. But this horse is simply wired differently from her “hot rods.” With that advantage, we, of course, enter WP classes when we go to shows that have them. However, she’s primarily a reining horse (and moves out nicely for that!), then horsemanship, and WP is really just for fun.
I’d be quite annoyed if someone began chastising that mare’s natural way of going, claiming that I’m forcing her to move that way or utilizing unkind training techniques.
While I do agree with this article if aimed at those who force horses into a frame unnatural for them, it’s important to avoid automatically “shaming,” for lack of a better term, trainers of horses who naturally move a certain way.[/QUOTE]
I have one of those too. She wants to go slow, and naturally carries her head level. We never forced her into this, it came naturally as she developed strength, balance and conditioning without the use of draw reins or any other gadget. Just good, solid consistent flatwork. And until I rode this horse, I too was critical of wp. So yeah, those that have not ridden a good moving properly trained wp horse and want to get on a soapbox really do not understand what they are talking about. I had to feel it for myself to really get how light, balanced and responsive these horses can be, and happy too. My mare was Ms. Grouchyface Pinnyears when we got her, and has developed into the sweetest calmest happiest horse.
Due to the wonders of selective breeding, I don’t think there’s anyone who would suggest that there aren’t horses that will “naturally” move the way that’s currently winning at high levels in the show ring. Just because something is “natural” for a horse to do doesn’t mean it’s healthy for them to do it however (<- this is the point where WP people imply that their horses are anatomically different from every other one out there).
If I let my current horse have his way, he’d counterflex through every turn and blast around like a sewing machine on steroids. That doesn’t mean that I’m going to claim this is his natural way of going, and make no attempt at improving it however. This isn’t his “natural” carriage…it’s what comes EASIEST to him.
Nobody, human or horse, finds major change easy. Doesn’t mean it’s not worth pursing, however.
As for whether they “like” doing WP movements…well, show us the happy horses please. All the linked videos I’ve seen in recent threads don’t fit any definition of happy I’ve ever seen. Dull and lifeless (ie, not actively pitching a fit) is not the same as happy.
Despite having worked in barns that produced World and Congress winning halter and pleasure horses, and having been privvy to some of the biggest name WP trainer’s activities at home, not just watching them on YT, I don’t know a darn thing. You know I don’t post on the driving forum or eventing b/c I truly don’t know enough except to watch…but I do know WP horses…and I have for many, many years.
Flash, why don’t you show off that happy WP horse since you are apparently one of 3 people on this forum who knows what WP is all about? Or are you yet another keyboard jockey who doesn’t have a camera or know how to post videos? That’s usually how it goes.
[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;8039653]
Despite having worked in barns that produced World and Congress winning halter and pleasure horses, and having been privvy to some of the biggest name WP trainer’s activities at home, not just watching them on YT, I don’t know a darn thing. You know I don’t post on the driving forum or eventing b/c I truly don’t know enough except to watch…but I do know WP horses…and I have for many, many years.
Flash, why don’t you show off that happy WP horse since you are apparently one of 3 people on this forum who knows what WP is all about? Or are you yet another keyboard jockey who doesn’t have a camera or know how to post videos? That’s usually how it goes.[/QUOTE]
Wow, you are calling me a liar or an idiot? Snaaarrrrkyyyyy. Must be all that rain you are getting. Hopefully your mood and manners will improve when the weather does.
Those that are bashing wp need to realize that, if they were to post what they do and show pictures and videos of it, the rest could just as easily take them apart and show them the error of their ways and in rather impolite ways if they so choose, as some are doing here.
I dare anyone to do so and stand there without trying to excuse why they do what they do that others may not like.
No, that would be WWIII.
I know I have seen enough personal pictures to have some fun with that, but it would not be nice to do so, because people have to learn at their own pace, in their own ways and some, in the end, is personal preferences anyway.
The same applies here, try to be kind, because some day it may be what you do that may be under scrutiny.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8039747]
Wow, you are calling me a liar or an idiot? Snaaarrrrkyyyyy. Must be all that rain you are getting. Hopefully your mood and manners will improve when the weather does.[/QUOTE]
You commenced the insults first, Flash, in post #7, or have you already forgotten?
while Bluey is correct that some will pick apart anything for picking’s sake, I don’t believe that describes everyone here on this Western forum=after all broad brushes spill a lot of paint.
[QUOTE=Flash44;8039747]
Wow, you are calling me a liar or an idiot? Snaaarrrrkyyyyy. Must be all that rain you are getting. Hopefully your mood and manners will improve when the weather does.[/QUOTE]
You commenced the insults first, Flash. In post #7.
Where is the video of your happy, ideal WP horse?
[QUOTE=PeanutButterPony;8039928]
You commenced the insults first, Flash, in post #7, or have you already forgotten?
while Bluey is correct that some will pick apart anything for picking’s sake, I don’t believe that describes everyone here on this Western forum=after all broad brushes spill a lot of paint.[/QUOTE]
Are you wirt, who I quote in post 7? Wirt is surrounded by bad wp “trainers” and has only “witnessed” what they are doing (and not actually tried riding that discipline) so has decided to use that very narrow experience to paint all who compete in wp as useless. You are welcome to come and ride my happy horses anytime you like. I stand behind my product.
Give it a rest.
The thing about Western Pleasure is that it is simple. No Piaffe, triple combination off the water, drop jumps or intricate obstacles. Once horses can jog and lope slowly with uphill collection, what else is there to do to distinguish yourself as the winner and Supreme Trainer? Wretched Excess. Slower, more hesitation, bigger hock split (really, this is the hot term for sale videos).
Add to that the fact that, unlike a few Ammy Owners riding megabuck A/O hunters at Wellington, who at least have to be able look OK over 3’6" despite iffy riding skills, the current objectionable style of WP allows anyone who can write the big check to show at a very high level because they just have to sit there and keep their spurs on. (This is not too big an exaggeration)
So all in all, it is a hard event to change for the better of the horse, as the business interests run counter to a happy horse.
Tom Chown is one of the few trainers whose AQHA WP World Champion buckle allows him to speak up with authority, and can do so because he is giving clinics these days, not currently showing.
