Goodbye Smartpak

[downen]

@alibi_18

You had two months, when you first started using this IR supplement, to decide if you were happy with it or not. After years of use, isn’t it’s pretty clear you believed this product worked?

You’ve been using this supplement for your horse for years, so we can only assume you’ve been satisfied with it for years.
For years, your horse haven’t showed any sign of metabolic problems. You believed it was helping.

Are you suggesting you’ve been feeding this supplement for years without believing in its property?

Are you suggesting this supplement you’ve been feeding for year caused the sudden death of your horse?

Are you suggesting you no longer believe, after years of use, that this supplement doesn’t work after all? Isn’t it a bit late for that?

As for the OP, get professional help. This is beyond some blankets.

You are COMPLETELY missing the point. If you read my posts at all, these questions were answered, and you made up a few non-existent scenarios for good measure. All supplements are a crap shoot, any knowledgeable horse person knows that, and results are often hard to quantify, especially in the area of insulin resistance, which makes Smartpak’s “guarantee” even more egregious. Oh, and for those is the back: I DO NOT BLAME MY HORSE’ DEATH ON SMARTPAK. My almost 40-year-old passed after a long life without ever ingesting a SmartPak supplement, and the pony lived several years AFTER I stopped his SmartPak supplement. How many times do I need to say that?

None of what you stated above is relevant to my point: Smartpak offers guarantees without clearly stating any limitations or exclusions. Some people report they have honored these guarantees and I’m happy for them.OP was given a verbal guarantee THAT WAS NOT HONORED. In my case, given the vague wording of their supplement guarantee, I just asked for some credit in light on my being a faithful customer for years, and they are supposedly known for their “Customer Care.” I’d have turned around and used it for more purchases from them! Instead they decided to be rude and dismissive, which caused me to question their insane, non-specific guarantees. As we speak, their website says that their supplements are “100% Guaranteed to Work.” No fine print, no asterisk to the limitations. That is downright misleading. In the end, I think this will catch up with them, in fact, I think it’s already begun.

Please stop piling on the OP. Telling someone they need professional help without knowing anything more about them than a post on a forum is rude and borderline cruel.

[skydy]

@downen

Wow. Just Wow.

For the record, the horse I lost recently was unrelated to the Smartpak incident. He was just shy of 40 years old. He looked amazing on the day we put him down, his back end was just too worn out to get him up and down any more.

The pony recovered from his founder and he lived a good number of years after, despite Cushings and IR. He’s been gone about three years now, and I still miss his beautiful little face over his stall door, along with all of the horses I’ve lost over the years.

I’m not angry at Smartpak over their unwillingness to offer a refund or credit, I’m angry that they are playing fast and loose with the truth when it come to their “guarantees.”

I’m obviously not getting the gist of your complaint. You aren’t upset that you didn’t get a refund?

However you are upset that they said you would be happy with the product, and so, when the product ultimately did not save your horse from succumbing to the illness that this “supplement” was intended to assist, along with veterinary and dietary management, you consider them at fault?

Would you have managed the IR horse differently if you hadn’t believed in a supplement?

Is it just the principle of the matter, that you know that a supplement guarantee should not be taken seriously and you are trying to make that point??

[GraceLikeRain]

(1) They have a written policy which indicates a refund is an option - neither in 2014 nor 2019 does it say refund or exchange at their discretion. It simply says A or B
(2) A representative told me that a refund was an option in 2014 when I called - I bought these blankets specifically because of the refund option
(3) A friend returned her blankets in August for a full refund without a hint of an issue - her blankets were purchased in '15
(4) I know several other people who received refunds, exchanges in different sizes, and store credits for blankets that were 1-3 years old. None were ever told that a same size exchange was the only option
(5) Once the representative read my notes, which had noted that my gelding had passed, I was put on hold and then an exchange in the same size was the only option available from then on

I think 10 years is beyond generous. I think that giving money back after 5 years is a great way to lose money because horses are great at storing things. I have never challenged either point.

No one with the company could explain why other customers had multiple options while I had one. That is why I am disappointed, frustrated, and generally annoyed. Between points 1-4, I simply was not prepared to suddenly have the policy enforced in a way that was completely incongruent.

We all remember animals differently. I’d rather give items away than have a stranger low ball me or grill me about how often an item was used. Selling his items or the few items of my mare’s that were not in the barn fire feels gross. I understand others do not feel that way. The comments saying I need counseling because I feel this way are so laughably inappropriate. I do not know you. You do not know me. Enough said.

At the end of the day, I would have appreciate SP honor their policy in the manner that they did for other people I know. However, an exchanged blanket is better than nothing. A local group has already let me know they would love to have them.

I’m stepping away from this thread. A huge thanks to those of you who were able to commiserate, even if you did not completely agree.

[Gardenhorse]

@downen

You are COMPLETELY missing the point.

None of what you stated above is accurate or relevant to my point: Smarkpak offers guarantees without clearly stating any limitations or exclusions. Some people report they have honored these guarantees and I’m happy for them. The OP and I have a difference experience and chose to share those experiences. In the end, I think this will catch up with them, in fact, I think it’s already begun.

I agree that with the wording on the blankets it is not clear that SmartPak (not the customer) gets to decide whether it is refund or replace. But I also think a 10 year replacement policy on a blanket is pretty darn reasonable.

But, for the supplements, the guarantee is clearly that if you don’t see results in two months, you can get a refund. The definition of “this supplement works” is that you get to decide in that first two months that it is working to help your horse, or it is not and you want your money back. Smartpak is not guaranteeing specific health outcomes for your horse.

[downen]

Ok like OP, once more then I’m stepping away.

If you want to give Smartpak your money then God bless. I personally don’t trust them any farther than I can throw my 17.3 gelding, and sadly, I’m sure there will be future threads about people being treated shabbily by them.

Happy Holidays to all!

[alibi_18]

@downen

You are COMPLETELY missing the point. If you read my posts at all, these questions were answered, and you made up a few non-existent scenarios for good measure. All supplements are a crap shoot, any knowledgeable horse person knows that, and results are often hard to quantify, especially in the area of insulin resistance, which makes Smartpak’s “guarantee” even more egregious. Oh, and for those is the back: I DO NOT BLAME MY HORSE’ DEATH ON SMARTPAK. My almost 40-year-old passed after a long life without ever ingesting a SmartPak supplement, and the pony lived several years AFTER I stopped his SmartPak supplement. How many times do I need to say that?

None of what you stated above is relevant to my point: Smartpak offers guarantees without clearly stating any limitations or exclusions. Some people report they have honored these guarantees and I’m happy for them.OP was given a verbal guarantee THAT WAS NOT HONORED. In my case, given the vague wording of their supplement guarantee, I just asked for some credit in light on my being a faithful customer for years, and they are supposedly known for their “Customer Care.” I’d have turned around and used it for more purchases from them! Instead they decided to be rude and dismissive, which caused me to question their insane, non-specific guarantees. As we speak, their website says that their supplements are “100% Guaranteed to Work.” No fine print, no asterisk to the limitations. That is downright misleading. In the end, I think this will catch up with them, in fact, I think it’s already begun.

Please stop piling on the OP. Telling someone they need professional help without knowing anything more about them than a post on a forum is rude and borderline cruel.

Well, I think you have reading for comprehension issues and it’s spreading to your writing skills, which make your posts quite confusing.

You’ve post a picture of the label : « if you don’t see results in 2 months, we’ll give you your money back. »
What is so complicated here to understand?

The OP seems to be overly upset about something that shouldn’t be. Grieving is fine, but I don’t like to dismiss signs of depression, so telling the OP to consult with a professional is the most rational thing I could say.
The blanket issue? The OP will still have time to deal with that later.

[mvp]

@skydy

I’m obviously not getting the gist of your complaint. You aren’t upset that you didn’t get a refund?

However you are upset that they said you would be happy with the product, and so, when the product ultimately did not save your horse from succumbing to the illness that this “supplement” was intended to assist, along with veterinary and dietary management, you consider them at fault?

Would you have managed the IR horse differently if you hadn’t believed in a supplement?

Is it just the principle of the matter, that you know that a supplement guarantee should not be taken seriously and you are trying to make that point??

I believe the OP is upset that

1. The terms of the deal were unclear; and

2. Because they were unclear she asked for clarification of those terms from a customer service agent. She got an answer-- one (legit, IMO) interpretation of that sentence with the “OR” in it.

3. Later on, some other part of Smartpak gives a different interpretation (again, let’s admit that there are two interpretations of that one, badly-written sentence), and does not honor the version of the guarantee that the OP went to the trouble to get.

If I were writing this thread for this hard crowd or in talking to Smartpak, I would have left my horse’s death and emotional state out of it. IMO, that gives everyone ammunition to lay the blame with the OP’s emotional state when, really, this is about a single, badly-written sentence and a company who doesn’t accept the consequences of having produced it.

You all have been incredibly patronizing to the OP. Her grieving or not does not change the logical problem that exists here and which originates in that sentence.

And as an aside, I will bet that in the annals of legal cases, there is more than one that circles around a similarly confusing sentence. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask a large firm to be very, very clear in the way it writes the guarantees it thinks will last over time. After all, you must expect that customers or customer service reps a decade on will have to interpret it.

[skydy]

@mvp

I believe the OP is upset that

1. The terms of the deal were unclear; and

2. Because they were unclear she asked for clarification of those terms from a customer service agent. She got an answer-- one (legit, IMO) interpretation of that sentence with the “OR” in it.

3. Later on, some other part of Smartpak gives a different interpretation (again, let’s admit that there are two interpretations of that one, badly-written sentence), and does not honor the version of the guarantee that the OP went to the trouble to get.

If I were writing this thread for this hard crowd or in talking to Smartpak, I would have left my horse’s death and emotional state out of it. IMO, that gives everyone ammunition to lay the blame with the OP’s emotional state when, really, this is about a single, badly-written sentence and a company who doesn’t accept the consequences of having produced it.

You all have been incredibly patronizing to the OP. Her grieving or not does not change the logical problem that exists here and which originates in that sentence.

And as an aside, I will bet that in the annals of legal cases, there is more than one that circles around a similarly confusing sentence. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to ask a large firm to be very, very clear in the way it writes the guarantees it thinks will last over time. After all, you must expect that customers or customer service reps a decade on will have to interpret it.

My post was in reply to downen, not the OP.

I don’t really have an opinion about the blanket issue and thus didn’t express one. The supplement issue was what I didn’t understand.

[Pico_Banana]

I started reading this thread out of curiosity. I am posting simply to lament the fact that certain people on this board are just plain mean. The OP and another person lost their horses. Even years later, unexpected things can bring the grief back in unexpected ways, but sometimes it hurts just like it happened yesterday. Snide and cruel comments are the last things one needs to hear in that situation.

Can’t we all just try to be a little more human to each other?

[findeight]

OP, just donate the blanket you have no use for. You need to put it behind you.

But I do understand and IIRC, that horse was bought to replace another horse suddenly, tragically lost with all your tack and other horse stuff. Memory isn’t that good but was there a sisters Pony lost too?

You have a right to grieve but there are some memories best forgotten so let this blanket thing go and not be an important part of the memories you look back on with fondness. So not worth it focusing on this blanket, it’s holding you back…

[enjoytheride]

@Pico Banana

I started reading this thread out of curiosity. I am posting simply to lament the fact that certain people on this board are just plain mean. The OP and another person lost their horses. Even years later, unexpected things can bring the grief back in unexpected ways, but sometimes it hurts just like it happened yesterday. Snide and cruel comments are the last things one needs to hear in that situation.

Can’t we all just try to be a little more human to each other?

She has a right to grieve but directing her grief at a company is wrong in this instance.

[Backstage]

@GraceLikeRain

No one with the company could explain why other customers had multiple options while I had one. That is why I am disappointed, frustrated, and generally annoyed. Between points 1-4, I simply was not prepared to suddenly have the policy enforced in a way that was completely incongruent.

…

I’m stepping away from this thread. A huge thanks to those of you who were able to commiserate, even if you did not completely agree.

I know you have stepped away, but if you do come back, I think it may be that the death of your horse suggested to SmartPak that you weren’t seeking to return the blankets and obtain a refund because of a product quality issue, but because they weren’t needed any longer. While you know that the blankets failed early and that the death of your horse was a separate issue, SmartPak doesn’t have that first hand knowledge. I suspect they have had many people try to abuse the policy, and may be implementing certain strategies to cut down on that. Your particular situation, especially given the time lag involved may have raised a red flag. While you still may not feel its fair, I think it may explain why other customers had multiple options while you were only given the replacement option.

[beowulf]

@clanter

Five years after the fact if still grieving then they should be seeking counseling

I think comments like this are at best unkind, and at worst mean-spirited and not true.

There’s no timeline for grief. Full stop. That doesn’t mean you need counseling.

I’m still sad about the (unexpected, and very tragic/traumatizing) death of my horse and that happened almost eight years ago… and I am probably the last person someone would say needs counseling (in that area, at least).

Death sucks! We’re allowed to feel grief for as long as it takes us.

OP, I’ve read this thread and I think you’re taking the comments in stride. I am really sorry for your loss. I used to work for Dover for years, so I get both sides - the customer’s, and the vendor’s… I think everyone has already said my thoughts, so I don’t want to contribute more – but… if you can’t get use out of a blanket, is it possible Smartpak can issue you a Gift Certificate?

This is something Dover does, or did, when an item was returned well past its “usable life”, but they still wanted to honor their policy of XYZ Guarantee…

[Haybert]

The only thing to add: ffs clanter, I think that was a callous douche-y response.

looking back I haven’t ordered from sp in years.

[trubandloki]

I am glad to hear that Dover has gotten better about their return policies. Having an issue with two different returns was one of the reasons I stopped shopping there way back when.
Have they (Dover) fixed their ‘many prices for the same item depending on the catalog you have’ thing yet?

[NoSuchPerson]

@beowulf

There’s no timeline for grief. Full stop. That doesn’t mean you need counseling.

This is not exactly correct. Mental health experts say that if your grief persists and is still having a significant impact on your daily life and emotional state after a certain period of time, then you do need to seek counseling. The more debilitating your grief, the sooner you need to seek help.

If, after five years, the OP still can’t talk about her horse without crying and was unable to even contemplate going through his things until now, then maybe she would benefit from some grief counseling.

On the subject of both blankets and supplements…

Yes, I agree that the SmartPak blanket guarantee was poorly written. However, I think it’s nuts to ask for a refund on blankets that were purchased back in 2014 and have been sitting in a closet since 2015. I’m impressed that SmartPak offered an exchange.

The supplement thing is even whackier. You can’t ask for a refund for an order of supplement you’ve been using for years based on an “It works in 2 months or you get a refund” guarantee.

I understand how easy it is to let some third party be a target for the general anger you feel as a part of grief. For awhile, I was in a rage at Dish Network over the horrible, insensitive treatment I received when I called to cancel my son’s service after his death. But, the rational part of my brain, as it began to reassert itself, did understand that for them, it was just business and from the perspective of a company trying to stay in business, their policy made sense. Apparently, people calling in and trying to get out of a contract by claiming that the person who signed the contract died is a real thing and that’s why you have to send them a copy of the death certificate. Yeah, the person that took my call could have been a lot nicer and more sensitive, but after I got over the first blaze of anger, I didn’t complain about the policy itself.

[mvp]

@enjoytheride

She has a right to grieve but directing her grief at a company is wrong in this instance.

Again, the company wrote a guarantee badly. That’s on their side of the street. The OP’s emotional state is irrelevant and did not cause their mistake.

[mvp]

@trubandloki

I am glad to hear that Dover has gotten better about their return policies. Having an issue with two different returns was one of the reasons I stopped shopping there way back when.
Have they (Dover) fixed their ‘many prices for the same item depending on the catalog you have’ thing yet?

I don’t think so… or, at least, they haven’t fixed a similar issue with a crap-ton of on-line sales in which prices vary. My hard-ass-researching-MoFo buying style might make them change their mind.

An aside-- Sierra Trading Post used to do this. Stuff got cheaper soon after you ordered it. Weird. Squirrely, even. The got my goat, so I would just re-buy cheaper and return the same more expensive stuff. Finally some analytics dude from there calls me up and says “You have a 60% return rate, WTF?” And I said, “Dude, your pricing policy makes this economically rational” (if you have the time and patience for that. Sierra Trading Post was sold to Target soon after and this mess stopped (plus their products got worse). You’re welcome.

[beowulf]

@NoSuchPerson

This is not exactly correct. Mental health experts say that if your grief persists and is still having a significant impact on your daily life and emotional state after a certain period of time, then you do need to seek counseling. The more debilitating your grief, the sooner you need to seek help.

Right… but it’s a pretty big stretch to assume that OP’s grief is “debilitating” and having “significant impact on daily life”… It’s a bigger stretch to suggest counseling over the internet, my two cents…

I’m with MVP – the tone of this conversation would have been much different if the emotional aspect had been left out of it.

Bottom line, the grief is irrelevant to the inconsistently upheld clause about “Return OR Refund”. That’s on Smartpak, not OP. Not that I’d return a blanket, but if SP has a policy guarantee, they should be upholding it.

[HenryisBlaisin]

I agree that if OP had come on and said: So, I bought this blanket a few years ago. It broke within a few months and when I asked for a replacement, they didn’t have it, and I couldn’t wait for the replacement to be back in stock, so I bought another blanket. I admit, this one sat a bit longer before I inquired again about a return, but when I called, I was told that the refund only applies to the first 60 days. They will only offer a replacement of the exact same item, and I no longer have need of it. The guarantee as printed on the website says "10-Year Indestructible Guarantee – the fine print:
We are so confident in the toughness and durability of the SmartPak Ultimate Turnout Blanket, that if anything happens to this blanket within 10 years of your purchase, we’ll replace or refund it—no matter what! It’s that easy. However, the guarantee does not cover blankets that have embroidery stitched anywhere other than the surcingle straps, as it compromises the integrity of the blanket. " I couldn’t find anywhere on the site were it said anything about the first 60 days, and I was perfectly fine with a store credit for an item I could actually use, or even a blanket in the right size for my current horse but they won’t do that either…I think the response would have been different. That’s not fair to the OP.

That guarantee is pasted directly from SP’s site. Nowhere that I could find, on that page or any other, is there a whisper of anything being only for the first 60 days, etc. I suppose they’re meeting the guarantee legally by only replacing in the one size, but it is misleading and if that’s the case, it should SAY that on the page. The way it’s worded makes it look like it’s the customer’s choice. The policy is super generous, no doubt, but it should be spelled out on the site…and not applied differently for different customers depending on the rep you get on the phone.