“Graduation” bit for 5-year-old TB

[Tha_Ridge]

Help me with a bit brainstorm for my 5-year-old OTTB mare!

A bit of her backstory: off the track in December, she is quietly trotting in and cantering out of lines, super quiet and soft to trot jumps after lots of “no big deal” work with placement poles and tiny grids, and now we’re working on transferring that same calm and quiet to cantering single jumps. She started in a copper loose ring with a half-moon link and is now in a fat rubber loose ring snaffle now. Teeth/chiro/vet freshly done and luckily, she is sound as can be with fantastic feet too.

She goes quite well in the rubber loose ring at the trot where we’ve begun to establish a really nice leg-to-hand connection and shape, but she is a big-moving mare with a massive stride so I think I want to move up a tier as we begin focusing on packaging and improving the canter.

Thoughts? I’m thinking a simple jointed full-cheek might give me just a slight bit more leverage and control and lighten her up a bit thanks to the elevator action.

[Trekkie]

Why switch bits if you found something she likes and is getting and accepting a connection in? Why not expand your flatwork instead to make the canter more developed and adjustable? More transitions within and between gaits, etc with pole work and other work in and out of the ring to strengthen the back and hind end so the canter becomes softer and lighter. This takes time.

[Tha_Ridge]

Sorry, I tried to make it clear that we’re doing all those things and more and I’m not looking for a quick fix, but in riding her, she does need something just a touch more, hence my question.

[Moneypitt]

Do you use a full cheek with hooks? Wondering how else a full cheek is like an elevator bit? With the bit end keepers? Or?

The full cheek is one we use except with a bean double jointed mouth piece. We also got a bevel bit with a similar bean type double jointed mouth. That one is definitely more but soft control.

[Midge]

She’s only been off the track 3 months and you need more bit in order to canter single jumps and package the canter. Is that right?

[Caligirl83]

Hmm personally I like to keep the OTTBs in a Dring bc it helps with straightness (as the D ring originally evolved as a racetrack bit). For the mouthpiece, I have found that a French link or a Dr Bristol might give me a bit more if I want more brakes.

But honestly I’m not sure you need a bigger brake after 3 months off the track with a 5yo (unless she’s completely running away with you). I think maybe go back to basics and don’t rush the ground pole work - she should be able to halt in a straight line calmly after ground pole work and before the next jump (assuming she’s anticipating and rushing the next jump), if you build them 6-8 strides apart.

I’m also though pretty old school and prefer to either ride in a D ring snaffle or a Pelham, with only 1 or 2 variations in between (French link , followed by a Dr Bristol being one, for a heavy heavy heavy horse I like the D ring Waterford bc they can’t lean on that bit).

But I have pretty light hands and am short (5’4) with not great upper arm strength, so I prefer to go back to basics to train all my horses to stop or half halt off my seat and voice instead of building up the bit. Although it’s hard to know without seeing you or the horse go. For context - I’m a year out of race training with my 4yo coming 5yo gelding, and because of the immaturity of his brain (not surprisingly since his dad was a late bloomer as a racehorse and didn’t win a stakes race until 4 then raced & won until 8 years old) I’ve taken the last year to install brakes, a half halt, 3 speeds within the trot and canter without anxiety and I’m only now slowly introducing jumping. I’m not saying you have to go that slow with your horse, I’m just giving you my context. Good luck! Sounds like a fun mare.

[IPEsq]

What is she doing that makes you think you need more bit? You mention needing leverage. Some OTTBs can tend to get downhill in the canter because they look for the bit to lean on. If that is what you have, then I like a happy mouth or rubber 2 ring bit, with 2 reins. So for most of the ride you are basically riding off of the same setup you have currently but you can use the curb rein to pick her up in canter when needed (and then go back to riding off the snaffle). Other options are something like the Nathe universal bit where the second ring is positioned in a way that mutes the elevator effect somewhat. I’d still use 2 reins for your situation.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Caligirl83

But honestly I’m not sure you need a bigger brake after 3 months off the track with a 5yo (unless she’s completely running away with you). I think maybe go back to basics and don’t rush the ground pole work - she should be able to halt in a straight line calmly after ground pole work and before the next jump (assuming she’s anticipating and rushing the next jump), if you build them 6-8 strides apart.

She actually really lands straight and soft and her steering is very good. It’s more about regulating her step a few strides out where her stride goes from 12 to 14 feet and getting a little lift around the end of the ring (we’re in a narrow indoor still, thanks, winter!). I do have a thinner rubber D with a French link that I’ll try today, and I think @IPEsq’s suggestion of the two-ring with two reins will be my next go-to depending on how she feels in that.

Of course, in true COTH fashion, a few people have acted like I’m suggesting putting this green baby in a double-twisted wire. So, I’ll add my disclaimer again that we spend a lot (a lot!) of time on poles, long and low work, and I’m not looking for a crutch or a quick fix, but I don’t believe every horse is destined to go in a rubber loose-ring for the rest of their life.

[scislandsprite]

Could try a double jointed bit. Still soft & dressage legal but the different mouth feel could help.

[Caligirl83]

@Tha_Ridge she sounds lovely.

Have you tried an exercise where you use a pole 2-3 strides after the jump straight before the corner, ie give her enough room to land, take one stride and then do the ground pole? I find this exercise works wonders for any horse that gets “happy” on the backside of the jump or lengthens their stride on the backside. You can adjust the pole on the backside to really regulate her stride and teach her what you want, without interfering with the mouth. If that’s too easy you can progress to a full gymnastic (I’m sure you are doing this, I’m just typing it out for anybody else that is reading this with a similar issue).

I second @IPEsq’s suggestions of the 2-ring with 2 reins - I love a pelham for that reason, but I would never suggest throwing a greenbean TB in a pelham unless I felt secure that the rider (whether myself or a student) was capable of riding almost exclusively off the snaffle rein, with just a tad bit of the curb rein to get them off the forehand. But a 2-ring will accomplish that without overdoing it.

(I am assuming you a hunter/jumper rider? If you event at all or are pointing this TB towards a different discipline I’m sure you would get different responses).

[Justice]

Gags are great for this specific action… ottbs are taught to brace down on the bit and a gag can be a gentle mouthpiece that redirects them when they try to brace. Rein setup depends on the hands holding them, I prefer a single rein clipped to the gag ring.

[Jackie_Cochran]

If you can handle two sets of reins in your hand why not consider a double bridle?

I have had remarkable improvements with horses in a double even if I rarely/never use the curb rein during the ride. I leave the curb rein sagging slightly, just tweaking it with my fingers if the horse decides to ignore the snaffle. Some horses I might have to tweak the curb rein two or three times during a ride, other horses I have never had to tweak the curb rein at all, and both types of horses improve.

The horses I ride now seem to have “settled down” with two bits in their mouths. I get the impression from the horses that they consider the curb bit as a valid “second opinion” if it does not contradict the snaffle rein, even when I do not use the curb rein at all during a ride.

I personally think that a lot of people who run into either minor or major problems with a snaffle would end up more satisfied with their results if they went to the double bridle rather than going to ever more severe snaffle bits.

The horses (at least the ones I’ve ridden) never seemed to think of the Pelham bit providing a “second opinion” though they did back down if I tweaked the curb rein–at precisely the right time and letting the snaffle rein sag at the same time.

If you have an independent seat and humane hands (that is you listen to your horse and work with him) the double bridle should not cause you any problems. I have MS, I am weak, I have bad balance, and I have a hand tremor, even so the horses I ride improve with the double bridle and seem to have fewer problems with their mouths accepting my contact and my hand aids when I use the double bridle.

I now talk about the “miracle of the double bridle” with my riding teachers. I never had a lesson about how to use the double bridle from a riding teacher, I learned how to use it effectively by listening to the horses and letting them teach me how to get the best results with it.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Caligirl83

Have you tried an exercise where you use a pole 2-3 strides after the jump straight before the corner, ie give her enough room to land, take one stride and then do the ground pole? I find this exercise works wonders for any horse that gets “happy” on the backside of the jump or lengthens their stride on the backside. You can adjust the pole on the backside to really regulate her stride and teach her what you want, without interfering with the mouth. If that’s too easy you can progress to a full gymnastic (I’m sure you are doing this, I’m just typing it out for anybody else that is reading this with a similar issue).

Yes! This is the exact exercise we did religiously to get her trot fences so good and what we’re starting to do at the canter. I just sit up, keep my leg on, and press my knuckles into her neck five strides out and let her figure out—just wanted to be able to “set up” the canter quality with a touch more precision.

Flatted her today in the French link D with the thinner rubber mouthpiece and noticed an ever-so-slight difference so thank you for bringing the D to the top of my bit box again! I am quite comfortable with two reins, so we’ll probably cycle through the two-ring/Pelham/double bridle options as necessary. A Mullen mouth Pelham is probably my all-time favorite bit.

[Beacon6]

I’ve had good experience with my OTTB using the 2 ring occasionally to help balance the canter. I primarily use a loose ring snaffle, but go to the 2 ring for a jump school to help with exactly what your asking about.

[Caligirl83]

Great minds think alike then re ground poles on the backside! I also find this exercise works well to encourage the rider to keep riding straight after the jumps instead of just turn and burn (especially in a novice to intermediate jumper rider), or for a horse that tends to fall to the inside after a jump because they are anticipating the turn.

I’m glad our suggestions were helpful!

[Rel6]

You could try a simple french link or a bit with a lozenge (loose ring or D-ring). It would probably be a little thinner than a rubber D, but still simple and soft for a baby OTTB. It was too much for my very soft-mouthed green OTTB mare (who goes in a flexible nathe), but might suit your mare!

[PNWjumper]

I often move my horses into a myler when I have moved past the point of liking a snaffle. I do prefer D-rings to loose rings, generally speaking, so I usually have my babies in french link D-rings to start. But when I start wanting to pick them up a bit more I usually start with my favorite bit, a low port D-ring myler with hooks (MB43LP). I find that my horses generally like it more than the french link, it gives me a little more shoulder pick-up ability, and it gives me the option of mild gag action if I use the hooks, and a little “bite” if I add a curb chain (I like to have that option, in particular at shows). My last OTTB started in a french link off the track, moved to a 2-ring happy mouth as he started up the jumper levels (at home I used the myler), went in a slow twist gag at the 1.40m level for the first few years, and then “graduated” to showing in my myler (with the curb chain) for the last 5 or 6 years of his 1.40m-1.50m show time.

I am not a fan of the attitude of “the bit doesn’t matter, it’s all about flatwork.” I mean, sure, I guess on some level that’s true, but the right bit can make such a massive difference in how that flatwork gets done. And having a bit that a horse respects and responds well to can be such a useful tool. And boy, I’ve had a range of youngsters from ones who never left the french link snaffle, to a 4 year old that I had to start in a hackabit and then transitioned for a time to a double twisted wire. If you have good hands, there are no “bad” bits. And a “good” bit is anything that delivers the message you want to deliver quickly and efficiently. I’d rather have a horse in a “harsh” bit and be able to communicate clearly, then to be constantly fighting something in a “too soft” bit.

[Tha_Ridge]

@PNWjumper

I am not a fan of the attitude of “the bit doesn’t matter, it’s all about flatwork.” I mean, sure, I guess on some level that’s true, but the right bit can make such a massive difference in how that flatwork gets done.

Exactly. Here’s what I switched her to a few days ago, based on @Caligirl83’s suggestion—had a great day of flatwork Sunday and yesterday and jumped her again in it this morning. We literally cantered four jumps and called it a day because she was perfect—a bouncy, connected canter that never changed rhythm. I think she likes having something a little thinner in her mouth.

[RAyers]

@Tha_Ridge

Help me with a bit brainstorm for my 5-year-old OTTB mare!

A bit of her backstory: off the track in December, she is quietly trotting in and cantering out of lines, super quiet and soft to trot jumps after lots of “no big deal” work with placement poles and tiny grids, and now we’re working on transferring that same calm and quiet to cantering single jumps. She started in a copper loose ring with a half-moon link and is now in a fat rubber loose ring snaffle

Here is my take after several OTTBs. I like to go the other way. My goal is to get them in the LIGHTEST bit possible as they progress. So far it has been pretty successful in that I have gotten most of them to 3rd level dressage in a loose ring Nathe and jumping around at 1.2meters in a 3 ring Nathe with the reins on the bit ring (I have the other two rings as my adjustment if needing a bit more).

OTTBs are trained to grab into the bit and pull as leg is added in order to develop the balance and speed on a track. I find that they are very hesitant to accept the bit without a very finessed hand when switched to jumping or dressage. Thus, I focus less on the bit and head and more on the leg and back to get them to a place where they are willing to accept whatever bit is there.

Also, I don’t try to “improve” the canter using the bit. I believe that if I can give the horse time to accept the leg and begins to push into the bit (where all I do with my hands is give them a place to explore connection via not worrying about head placement or frame) they will come to me rather than me having to tell them what to do.

I think you have a great bit already and you don’t need more. All you need to do is ask more from the ride you already have and let her learn how to connect to your hand over the course of a year.

Of course, my method does take years to get where I want my horses to go, but it seems to work very well and my horses seem to enjoy their work and the fact they actually OWN their ride and I am more just another partner.

Here is where PNWjumper and I differ. While she seeks a lighter feel in the jumper ring, I want a horse willing to grab the bit and pull more to fences on XC. This way they balance off my hand (closer to what they did on the track) but I still have control of the balance to the fence.